Heat Pumps

[bigoltool]

Anybody got the 411 on Electric Heat Pumps? My House was built in 1999 and the Furnace and Water heater (both Propane) are the least efficient ones I think our contractor could find.

The Furnace is only 80% (80AFUE) efficient and the water heater is also at the extreme end (303 Gallons/year) of the spectrum for efficiency. We got ate alive last winter (didn't everybody?) on heating bills and I have no desire to repeat that friggin cycle. So I am considering going to Electric Heat pump/water heater. Has anyone ever done the swap? If so what kind of ROI did you realize? I am reading stories of people with heat pumps paying $50 a month heating bills and just shaking my head. We had several $400

propane (no Natural Gas here) bills last winter.

Our Electric rates are at 7.7 cents/Killowatt hr and Propane is like $2.54 a gallon. Just looking for Info Pro or Con.

 

[twotonevert]

Man alive I wish I could advise you on this as I work for an electric utility company. We used to sell heat pumps. From my understanding, they work well unless they break. My suggestion is to compare the differences and make an educated decision based on your information.
The water heater industry has advanced well. You could look at a circulating hot water pump instead of the tank. However, I dont think that will net you a savings because you are constantly pumping hot water around the house. Most I have been involved with require thier own breaker in the panel and pull around 40 amps. 7.7 cents/kilowatt is pretty cheap electric. We charge right at 9 cents/kilowatt hour and we are considered on the low end of cost.
Have you ran any numbers?

 

[omslaw]

My last house was all electric; w/ heat pump. Basically, the same that you're looking for. In the summer, I was getting killed with $400 /mo utility bills! The winter was not as bad, but when the temp fell too much, the heat pump couldn't keep up and the electric heat kicked in. The one thing that I didn't like is that it always felt 'cold' in the house...

The house I'm in now is 3 times the size of the last one; standard A/C, nat gas furnace and water heater. My utility bills are lower in this house than the last!

I'm no expert by any means, but I'm not sold on the all electric bit... You may want to consider a heat-pump with LP as the emergency heat?

Just my

 

[twotonevert]

I have heard the same complaints Omar. But I dont have a heat pump to compare. I dont much faith in a unit that heats and cools. Too many moving parts.

Hey Big, I dont know the layout of your house, but I built a home in Missouri in 2001. I put a pellet stove in. Costs about 2.50 per day to run it and it will run you out of the house. It pulled the same as a 60 watt light bulb and would also burn corn as an alternative. Just a thought as a possible supplement.

 

[bigoltool]

Thanks for the replies. You guys are actually saying some of the same things I have been reading on the net. The output of the Electric Heat pumps is not as hot (like 120 VS 95)as the Propane so they don't feel as warm. My wife had the thermostat set at 66 all last winter and I was not digging that at all and still getting killed.We actually have a Gas fireplace now and My wife was talking about getting a pellet stove to replace that as an alternative. Downside to that is the bags of pellets in my already tight garage. I am willing to weigh all my options at this point. I am just sick of supporting big oil!

My house is a single story 1999 vintage rambler so I don't think there is much to be gained insulation wise here. The Island I live on has a fairly mild temperature range (very few weeks of sub freezing temps in winter and even fewer 90+ days in Summer).

 

[landmissle]

I live in north florida and the heat pump/ac unit work well. A heat pump is just the AC run backwards in a nutshell. A heat pump is good in a climate where it doesn't get real cold in the winter.

 

[solarbarack]

From my understanding the government is taking the price cap off of electric within the next few months, so it'll be right inline with gas. You might want to look into that further though.

 

[HRHDi]

I'd go with natural gas for heat. Also look at a tankless water heating system. I've heard great things about those. They're pricy to put in, but pay for themselves over a year or 2...so I've been told by co-workers who have them.

 

[pbghost]

I'd stick with gas on the water heater just for the fact you'll still have hot water in a power outage. the bad thing on heat pumps is they run almost year round. check what the life expectancy is on them. like james stated- you might want to check out some form of supplemental heat

 

[Busasweety]

yeah, here last year the state deregulated the

eletric company and they immediately jumped rates 75% !!!!! we were payin @ 80 per month NOW payin @ 140-160

 

[bigoltool]

Any Idea if I could keep my existing Propane furnace as a supplemental heat source with a heat pump? The pellet stove thing sounds really easy but I think the Heat pump actually helps your resale value in the long run.

 

[omslaw]

I would think that you can keep the propane furnace. The heat pump will cool and provide most of the heat. The only time the propane furnace would get used is when the heat pump can't keep up with the heating demand.

There are different styles of thermostats out there for heat pumps. Some are manual; you have to switch on the 'emergency heat', i.e. propane furnace. Some are as complex as having an outdoor temperature sensor and will automatically turn on the backup heat source.

Also, another thing to check into is that some electric utilities may give discounts for those with heat pumps and/or all electric homes.

As for the hot water, I agree with some of the others, look into the tankless heaters. They are pricey at first, but will pay for themselves. A buddy of mine installed one about 3 years ago and has loved it! Always has hot water! I'm thinking of switching...

 

[GSX1300R-T]

I feel your pain, My Brother!! My house is 13 years old,......and I just changed my ENTIRE heat pump system and the ducting 2 months ago. I luckily had the support and help from a friend who works in heating and air.

I did 99% of the labor over a two week period. He did the electrical and the pressure lines. He was a great help by answering a couple thousand questions as I completed the work.

I'm very glad that I did the work myself. I found MANY issues with the previous system. Undersized ducting, dampers improperly adjusted, carpet covering the boots, etc. The more I changed,........the more I found wrong with the previous system.

Long story short,.......when everything was said and done,......I saved $8000 and my house heats and cools better than ever. My first monthly electric bill was my lowest in years.

If you go strictly heat pump with no gas,..........be sure to go with the latest freon (R410A) and try to buy the highest SEER rating that you can afford. I didn't see a real savings with an 18 SEER unit in the long run (intial cost was much higher,....and monthly savings only a little bit more),..........so I settled on a 16 SEER.

Hope that some of this helps,........if I can be of further assistance,.....PM me. Good luck on your decision!!!

 

[bigoltool]

Thanks again for all the input guys!!! I have a guy coming out today to do an assessment of my current systems and give me a quote. I 'll let you know what he says.

 

[bdogg317]

well big heres the skinny on your situation. I own my own heatin gand cooling company. the truth be told heat pumps are not made for your part of the country. They are made for warm climate areas. Thats where they are ther most effecient and when people give you the numbers on them those are the numbers they are giving you. Now a heat pump will work but as far as what kind of savings you have is up in the air because once the temp. hits 32 degrees that heat pump will not keep up. Also you are talking about two different kinds of heat(ele. vs. gas). If you are used to gas heat be it propane or nat. you will not be readily happy with electric. It takes a while to get used to. If you are looking to save money on your heating bill the I would reccommend a hybrid system. This is a gas furnace with a heat pump unit. It will save you on your utility bills. the heat pump is the primary heat source with the gas being the second source. now when the gas come on it will quickly catch up and add humidty to the house which means the heat will hold in the house longer when the unit shut down. Also Make sure you have them put in a 1/2 ton bigger than they suggest. HYBRID SYSTEM should be your best bet

pm me if you have any questions.