Head Gasket Lasted 20 Miles

[openbsd2]

Hi,
Long Time Lurker here (Hiya Blue Bayou)

Bike is a 2001 with the external fuel pump (so a 2000 really)
& 25,000 Miles (nearly)

So I Need Help Deciding If I should Fix or just cut my losses and break the bike ...Obviously I don't want to Do this But I cant afford to throw good money after a bad project.

Anyway this is what happened

Bike literally one day just lost compression on all cylinders
I was replacing external Fuel pump with an external pump and FPR...(Engine was Cold).. and thats all she wrote! She never fired again till gasket was changed
Local area Mechanics (20 mile radius) were confused so I couldnt get anyone to even look at her (honestly!)

a Compression test was as follows (approx as I lost paper I wrote it on)
(1) 37
(2) 60
(3) 150
(4) was about 37 PSI
A little oil in cylinders and (3) was about 168 PSI " I cant remember other figures"

Head and Base surfaces were all straight and true..no skimming needed....just really carefull cleaning.

Anyway I replaced head gasket with a standard size Cometic Gasket
Now I know now I should have changed head bolts BUT I used the old ones
and torqued to 37.5 LB
I couldnt see any obvious sign of failure on gasket (I know you cant allways see it)
As expected It was a job torquing head down (that was reasuring)

Bike fired up straight away after 2 rotations using the new Pump/FPR combo and ran really nice,(allthough too rich)
new PSI readings were
(1) 200
(2) 231
(3) 240
(4) 228
(teaspoon of oil in cylinders made no difference on readings)

Merrily set off to MOT station (Passed with flying colours)

after 20 Miles
and 3 stops/heat cycles #3 cylinder dropped PSI....bike ran but on only 3 cylinders

I tried retorquing the bolts But they were still set at 37.5lb
So (wrongly I know) torqued them a little more ....felt a few slips like a couple bolts stretched
now all cylinder PSI's are silly low again
Is this evidence the bolts are/were bad ?
Or am I just a Twit

my Question is
Does Any body reading this see an answer leaping off the page at them

&

Would you Fix her with new APE studs and obviously new gasket
Or
Strip Her and cry as Ebay swallows her up?

 

[c10]

Most bolts even though they say to replace last many builds as long as its not turbo / Nitrous motors . 25,000 miles is nothing what is the history on the engine ? Remember if you have tight valves = lost compression .
How do you know its to rich ? FYI if you are dumping raw fuel it wont take much to wash a cylinder wall of oil making rings/ cylinder wall damage .

 

[openbsd2]

Thanks for Fast reply
The Engine is Stock,
The Shims are within tolerance,
The Spark plugs are sooty like this

 

[c10]

cometic gaskets can be reused . Just for grins look @ cam timing . Stock cam sprockets ? I have seen adjustable ones slip when not tightened down / loctite .

 

[openbsd2]

Yes Stock sprockets,
the only thing I know isnt stock engine wise is the starter clutch
I also checked timing no less than 7 times after rotating engine by hand and once after the compression drop to see if it had slipped.

Re-use head gasket? I was under the impression they had to be changed every time
Would that mean a spray sealent would have to be used to reinstall....or dry reinstall ?

 

[c10]

Yes certain head gaskets can be reused . Some builders like copper coat to spray on the gasket being reused . You will have to forgive me as Fuel injection/pumps are new to me . All motors I built have carburetors , and no pump required .
I'm kind of wondering if your pump swap/mod has something to do with the issues . will be going out to a movie with the wife so it will be several hours before I can reply .again . Are you in Florida ?
FYI #1 @ 200 psi is not within 10% of the others that alone is cause to start looking at rings / valve seats .

 

[openbsd2]

Im in England..hence the time delay
Ive been thinking about the 20% difference in PSI from the moment I took the reading
Can Rings really be bad after 25k?

 

[c10]

yes if you washed the cylinder with fuel . What does you engine oil smell like ?

 

[openbsd2]

The Oil does smell a little of petrol
not overwhelmingly but I can smell some in it
I was considering it could have had Borewash a while ago but have had so many theories running thru my head that I thought I would ask here
Thanks by the way for trying to help
I Appreciate your time

 

[c10]

This is what I would do at this point . Since cam timing / valve lash is ok per your eyes lets dig deep . Seems you know how to take the head off / time the engine . Pull it all down again except this time your taking the block off to view piston
rings , skirts , cylinder bore . Any vertical markings are a tel tail sign of damage . Remember many marks are below the piston so you really have to remove the block to see damage .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...8jycg1V_aCkGFQG-NZH4gnUQ&ust=1464727407324931

https://www.google.com/search?q=mot...NAhVOK1IKHVTKC70QsAQIIg#imgrc=XIEkVzh8IDNhmM:

 

[openbsd2]

I shall do this makes sense to me.
It will take me a few days to get time to work on it though..this could potentially turn out to be a long job for me financially and time wise
However..It would be a worthwhile job......and least i should do is check
thanks

 

[dadofthree]

Best of luck

 

[EchoBase]

This is what I would do at this point . Since cam timing / valve lash is ok per your eyes lets dig deep . Seems you know how to take the head off / time the engine . Pull it all down again except this time your taking the block off to view piston
rings , skirts , cylinder bore . Any vertical markings are a tel tail sign of damage . Remember many marks are below the piston so you really have to remove the block to see damage .

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiY9O2H1YLNAhUEGlIKHbd6D7oQjRwIBw&url=http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/index.php?threads/ring-gapping-and-basic-piston-ring-info-youll-need.509/&psig=AFQjCNGfv78jycg1V_aCkGFQG-NZH4gnUQ&ust=1464727407324931

https://www.google.com/search?q=motorcycle+cylinder+bore+piston+damage&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=971&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicjYj11ILNAhVOK1IKHVTKC70QsAQIIg#imgrc=XIEkVzh8IDNhmM:

Holy crap, I haven't seen such a comprehensive collection of info on anything.
I thought I knew about the engine building process.
The info in the first link is totally

 

[c10]

Dont give me any credit on that link lol I was searching images to show our buddy in need for references . Did you read the end of that link ? holly cow those guys were in a pissing match lol

 

[openbsd2]

Its Very usefull info thanks,
WOW they where they being childish towards the end of that last artical
That attitude on that site is Why I chose to ask for help here,
try reading other forums and there is often a childish argument at the end .
not in jest but really nasty stuff....not naming any sites in particular

 

[openbsd2]

Ok So finally got time to drop the engine
Took off head and look what I found!
One valve has dropped ....Obviously from the the Bore that had lost full compression.

I dont see any damage on piston top where valve should have hit ..valve itself looks Ok too
and the cap which is were the shim goes seems to have suffered some damage as there are cuts in it (see pic) and the shim dosn't fit anymore also no obviouse damage on inside of shim cover,

I also did a simple water leak test and its hard to see on one pic but two seperate valves are leaking One very very slightly
I Hope I caught the problem before more damage was done
I shall still be dropping cylinder bores but makes sense to fix this first.