Guess I'll get it started

[warwgn]

I agree with him mostly but I think 20k troops is not enough, the Iraqi's are not gonna do enough, and Iran and Syria are gonna start some major shid to put a halt to the effort!!

We cant win it, but we dang sure cant afford to lose, the best we can hope for is a favorable outcome. I truly belive that means helping put a democratic republic in power in Iraq, the problem is how can we do that? The president's plan seems like a good one and I hope it works but I see a lot of room for things to get FUBAR'ed real quick. I also see major problems with Iran

what's your thoughts??

 

[VaBusa]

I'm sorry to say I did not watch his speech last night; I Nyquil'd up and went to bed

It does indeed sound like the Iraqi gov't needs to step up their efforts; don't know how much more we can do to prepare them to stand on their own if they don't have the people willing to work toward the cause...again, I didn't see his speech, but from what I've seen on the news, well I guess I agree with you Dustin...hate to commit more, but we probably need to, and do it BIG because at this point, we can't lose...

 

[Don Hardcastle]

First of all let me say that I am active duty Navy and if I am ordered to go to Iraq (not likely) but I would give it all if need be.

IMHO, this is a no win situation. These ppl are religious fanatics. They have been fighting with each other for hundreds and hundreds of year. Our incursion into their world will not make a bit of difference in the long run except planting some of our own.

Any time that you are fighting someone who believes that it is divine to die for their God, you can not win. There is a fundamental difference in the thought and belief systems. We are fighting for an idea, they are fighting for a belief.

Once again, JMHO.


Don

 

[VaBusa]

(USN05LE @ Jan. 11 2007,09:12) First of all let me say that I am active duty Navy and if I am ordered to go to Iraq (not likely) but I would give it all if need be.  

IMHO, this is a no win situation.  These ppl are religious fanatics.  They have been fighting with each other for hundreds and hundreds of year.  Our incursion into their world will not make a bit of difference in the long run except planting some of our own.  

Any time that you are fighting someone who believes that it is divine to die for their God, you can not win.  There is a fundamental difference in the thought and belief systems.  We are fighting for an idea, they are fighting for a belief.

Once again, JMHO.


Don

Very valid point...but, if you have a group of people, i.e. the Iraqi average Joe, not a member of the insurgency or some fanatical loon, do you turn your back on them? Not thinking of you personally, but since the US did go in and turn things upside down for Iraq with the ideal of getting rid of a fanatical leader, helping our fight against terrorism, whatever you want to say the reason was, can we just leave those people to fall victim to the next insane idealist that will use the people to his own advantages?

For all the bad said about our President, I have always said "I would not want to be in his position"...it indeed is too much of a lose/lose situation...no clear cut answers, at least for me and morally, ethically...just bomb 'em all and forget about it? I don't see that as a valid answer...walk away now? At what risk to those Iraqis that indeed want us there, appreciate what we've done thus far and our efforts to stablize their country. Again, I'm not there and only our military members could say just how appreciative they are of us, but from all I have been allowed to see by the media, I just don't think we can pack up and go...

 

[warwgn]

It's like fighting a raging forrest fire and we are supporting the small group of rangers who control the park, we cant take over their park and do it all our selves we need to help them get it under control and train them to better keep the fires out. The one thing we cant do is say you know what this is your park you need to do it and just pack our **** and leave them with a few rangers with buckets to put out the fire. If we did that the fire will burn out of control and work it's way out of the park and start burning everything it touches untill the whole conutry is on fire!!

 

[Don Hardcastle]

Michelle,
I agree completely; however, I believe the transfer of authority and power could happen at a faster pace. I don't think they are going to fully step up to the plate and take responsibility and authority for their country until we make them do it. Why should their Army take the brunt of the abuse while we are planning on sending 20,000 more Soldiers and Marines to do it for them.

I think it is very ironic that our country was founded because our forefathers were trying to shrug off,in part, a mantle of forced government and now some 235 years later we are forcing our political system onto other countries and kicking the shyte out of them if they don't comply. I am not suggesting the Sadam should have remained in power, but it could have been handled differently.

Don

 

[VaBusa]

(USN05LE @ Jan. 11 2007,09:27) Michelle,
 I agree completely; however, I believe the transfer of authority and power could happen at a faster pace.  I don't think they are going to fully step up to the plate and take responsibility and authority for their country until we make them do it.  Why should their Army take the brunt of the abuse while we are planning on sending 20,000 more Soldiers and Marines to do it for them.

I think it is very ironic that our country was founded because our forefathers were trying to shrug off,in part, a mantle of forced government and now some 235 years later we are forcing our political system onto other countries and kicking the shyte out of them if they don't comply.  I am not suggesting the Sadam should have remained in power, but it could have been handled differently.

Don

I fully agree with everything you said

 

[heavybusa]

(USN05LE @ Jan. 11 2007,09:12) First of all let me say that I am active duty Navy and if I am ordered to go to Iraq (not likely) but I would give it all if need be.

IMHO, this is a no win situation. These ppl are religious fanatics. They have been fighting with each other for hundreds and hundreds of year. Our incursion into their world will not make a bit of difference in the long run except planting some of our own.

Any time that you are fighting someone who believes that it is divine to die for their God, you can not win. There is a fundamental difference in the thought and belief systems. We are fighting for an idea, they are fighting for a belief.

Once again, JMHO.


Don

Same here, I think about how hard it is for people to change something trivial like smoking.

To me its not feasible for us to change the way of life for these people.

We can only remove the bad people and offer them the "option" to make their lives better. At that point its their choice.

I have a similar feeling about the Chinese government.