got a speeding ticket

(fairlane @ Oct. 26 2006,10:42)
(RCKTMAN @ Oct. 25 2006,23:52) No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... bash me if you like but i just dont do it. i guess it boils down to this. noone takes care of us noone really even likes us as you can see from earlier posts. but we try to take care of each other. the only thing i would put another officer in jail for is DWI. theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.


well would you have rather had the "think of your family" speech or the heres your ticket speech
No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.
THE LAW IS THE LAW,PAY YOUR TICKET,IF A COP GIVES YOU A BREAK THEN GREAT,BUT NOT GIVING ANOTHER COP A TICKET THEN SHAME ON YOU,YOU SHOULD BE FIRED,YOU OR YOUR FELLOW COPS ARE NOT THE LAW OR ABOVE IT,YOU ARE PAID TO ENFORCE IT!!!!!
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guns.gif
He's right...

Imho I think giving a ticket is more about being a bobo than public safety.

If it's about public safety, then the fellow officer that is speeding is just as much a danger to himself and the public as when I am when I speed. He should certainly get a ticket.

The fact that police either issue the ticket or let someone off based on their whim...kinda leave credibility of who they want to be a bobo to or not.

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LEOs need to differentiate between what is wreckless speeding in traffic and 10-15 over on a 50-65 mph zone highway when there is hardly anybody on the road. And most I believe do and typically hand out warnings if you have no recent priors, show respect and have your paperwork in order. Hell I see LEOs speeding 5-15 mph over all day along on the highways and main roads but some pull people over for doing the same thing.

LEOs need to come down on the other LEO d!cks that hand out tickets like that. Don't they realize it's those guys that make the whole force look bad to the public and just make their job a little harder by losing that respect that most people give them?
 
that would definately be a bad day for me. i just expect the ticket that way it would be less devistating. sorry to hear about it!
 
65 in 55 - he just has a hard-on for you. hoping to get something else too, i am sure.
i'd fight it.
i drive thru kansas in a truck well over speeds & they didnt even bother me being an out of towner.

they just are pissed that a squid ran from them once & want to take it out on most of us. i had one walk up to my bike at a light & shut engine off. he said bet you would have ran if i hit my lights. yeah right i was next to a school zone. i got tkts dismissed & LEO reprimanded by chief & city.
 
(jessup @ Oct. 26 2006,07:54)
(RCKTMAN @ Oct. 26 2006,02:52) No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... bash me if you like but i just dont do it. i guess it boils down to this. noone takes care of us noone really even likes us as you can see from earlier posts. but we try to take care of each other. the only thing i would put another officer in jail for is DWI. theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.


well would you have rather had the "think of your family" speech or the heres your ticket speech
I call BS on that one... Three of my friends are LEO and I respect them and their jobs.  I give every LEO respect for their service to the community... What if they were doing 20 or 30 over the limit?  Same standards should apply to every one... That is why some People don't like law enforcement.  I don't protect my own when they are wrong... If your gonna give someone a break you give them a break but you shouldn't give carte blanche just because they share the same affiliation.  I can understand if it is a minimal infraction but to say only if it was a dwi kinda pisses me off.
E
+1 Yep thats what pisses me off too we all are foot'in the bill so the county can enrich themselves and then to hear this crap "I give every leo respect for their service to the community" What about a construction worker? I guess he dont rate as high so bang em
 
(fairlane @ Oct. 26 2006,10:42)
(RCKTMAN @ Oct. 25 2006,23:52) No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... bash me if you like but i just dont do it. i guess it boils down to this. noone takes care of us noone really even likes us as you can see from earlier posts. but we try to take care of each other. the only thing i would put another officer in jail for is DWI. theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.


well would you have rather had the "think of your family" speech or the heres your ticket speech
No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.
THE LAW IS THE LAW,PAY YOUR TICKET,IF A COP GIVES YOU A BREAK THEN GREAT,BUT NOT GIVING ANOTHER COP A TICKET THEN SHAME ON YOU,YOU SHOULD BE FIRED,YOU OR YOUR FELLOW COPS ARE NOT THE LAW OR ABOVE IT,YOU ARE PAID TO ENFORCE IT!!!!!
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guns.gif
You are right. But sadly you forget one little thing. The officer you want us to ticket is the same officer that we have to trust to have our back during a fight. I'd rather not be thinking 'Hey, thats the guy I've given 3 speeding tickets to' when I'm getting ready to walk into a pitch black house with my gun drawn with said guy as my only backup.

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This seems to be a hot topic so I would like to chime in. Let's face it, nobody wants a speeding ticket so everytime one is issued it's a bad experience for the person the ticket is given to. I remember the time I was given a speeding ticket, by a Trooper for speeding 71 in a 55 zone. I had a broken speedometer in my car and did not know I was speeding, so I was shocked when he told me how fast I was going. He gave me the ticket for 71 in a 55 mph zone. Yes I was mad, but I had to accept responsibility for my actions. I hired a lawyer and he got it reduced to 61 in a 55, but I still got 3 points on my license and 3 insurance points. Since that incident I have always watched my speedometer and speed limits, and I feel it made me a safer driver.
  I am not going to Monday morning quarterback this incident in the post that started this discussion for either the Trooper or the member of the org. that got the ticket. I was not there and I dont know what took place. There are two sides to every story. So this is not the purpose of my response.
 As a North Carolina State Trooper that has written thousands of speeding tickets in my career, and have investigated hundreds of collisions. I've noticed several things. (Now I speak from my own experience and not someone else's.)
1. Of the motorcycle fatalities that I've investigated,all have been guy's on sportbikes, and have been speed related (the cause of the collision).
2. Of the chases with motorcycles that I've been in, all have been with guy's on sportbikes.
3. In these cases (fatalities,chases with sportbikes) they have been involving young people.
I find these things to be disturbing, being I ride sportbikes too, and love my hayabusa.
Now one thing I can say is that I have never (that I can remember) stopped an older more mature person on a sportbike for speeding, and that's a positive thing.
Many (not all but many) guys/gals on sportbikes seem to ride more aggressively than people that ride on other types of bikes, and many LEO's feel that same way. So in my opinion that breeds the hardnosed stance that many LEO's take when dealing with sportbike riders in some cases.
One thing I have noticed on this board that I like, is the fact that many go to places designed to high speeds to ride at high speeds. (i.e. dragstrip, racetrack) I think that is commendable and I continue to encourage that, because our interstate highways and roadways that the motoring public uses are not the place for it.

 Like I stated earlier this is not directed at the board member who was given a ticket by the KSP Trooper.

This is my observation from my experience.My hope for saying all of this is that we as sport bike riders evaluate the way we ride so we can decrease the chances of getting a speeding ticket or being involved in a collision.

P.S. Concerning speed measurement instruments, (radar,lidar,or even time distance(vascar,tracker))
they have no problem accurately measuring the speed of a Hayabusa or any other vehicle. If it's moving, it can and will be measured.
 
(rays06busa @ Oct. 25 2006,11:40) I'd take that one to court.  1.  He was moving in the opposite direction while running his radar.  2.  When was his radar last calibrated???  3.  You haven't had a ticket in "years and years" so that goes in your favor when talking to a judge.  Bring your driving record for proof.  4.  Police Officers, in my experience, sometimes don't show up for court which should be an automatic dismissal of the ticket.  Always take traffic tickets to court.  Worst case, you'll have to pay what you already know you have to pay.   Lots of times the ticket amount will be reduced or even dismissed if you show up, speak well, give your side and not bash the officer.  Try it.  Can't hurt.
Excellent advise
 
(BigmanZ @ Oct. 26 2006,18
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)
(fairlane @ Oct. 26 2006,10:42)
(RCKTMAN @ Oct. 25 2006,23:52) No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... bash me if you like but i just dont do it. i guess it boils down to this. noone takes care of us noone really even likes us as you can see from earlier posts. but we try to take care of each other. the only thing i would put another officer in jail for is DWI. theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.


well would you have rather had the "think of your family" speech or the heres your ticket speech
No im sorry i wouldnt give a fellow officer a ticket..... theres no excuse for it and it contradicts everyhting we are about..... public saftey.
THE LAW IS THE LAW,PAY YOUR TICKET,IF A COP GIVES YOU A BREAK THEN GREAT,BUT NOT GIVING ANOTHER COP A TICKET THEN SHAME ON YOU,YOU SHOULD BE FIRED,YOU OR YOUR FELLOW COPS ARE NOT THE LAW OR ABOVE IT,YOU ARE PAID TO ENFORCE IT!!!!!
guns.gif
 
guns.gif
You are right. But sadly you forget one little thing. The officer you want us to ticket is the same officer that we have to trust to have our back during a fight. I'd rather not be thinking 'Hey, thats the guy I've given 3 speeding tickets to' when I'm getting ready to walk into  a pitch black house with my gun drawn with said guy as my only backup.
Thats another bullshit cop out... If someone doesn't have your back because a speeding ticket that person shouldn't have that job.


I can think of a million excuses for cutting someone in my industry slack that I wouldn't cut for a regular person... I don't do it though...
As a matter of fact if I think anyone is acting outside the boundries of the law I will report them before I draw a f*cking breath.   Because they are a reflection to the consumer on  me....

You want people to respect LEO  than hold yourselves to the same standard.  And if you don't you shouldn't be suprised when people don't trust you or respect you.

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(tourbus @ Oct. 25 2006,10
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) He walks up and gives the typical line by saying you know why i pulled you over, i said well im not sure, and he fires back that he clocked us at 70mph, writes us both $126 fines & ads that he was hoping we would of run because other guys do it to him and they cant outrun him, he really said this to.
Ya BS. Main reason why he came down on you so hard and why he made that lil whimper is to make himself feel better for getting dusted by other sportbikes. His story is about as legit as a softtail rider claiming to kill busa's with his 80hp hog.

Get a lawyer and atleast get out of the points if any or just to shut the ticket down totally. You won't believe how many tickets go through because no one contests them. Key thing is to use a lawyer, don't do this yourself.

Next time invest in radar. Even if it only lets you know your caught, well it doesn't mean you have to wait for anything to catch up right? Quick change of direction can change things.
 
OK I am going to suggest that everything in your story is as you say it is and that you weren't speeding. I'll chime in the info to help your argument. I used to calibrate radar guns. They are pretty much as accurate as they will ever be if they are calibrated and pass the self test. However what else they have done is make the user (LEO) very lazy. Yes the Shreveport officer above follows the proper procedure of the tuning fork at the begin and end of shift. However that is only a procedural warm blanket requirement. That officer is simply fulfilling the legal obligation to satisfy its field operation. He forgets about 85% of the radar theory of operation he is taught in class, simply because nobody requires they give a real crap about it out in the field.

I can make a garbage can register speed on a fully functional radar gun. The user has much more responsibilty for verification than the radar gun does. Radar guns are easy to fool, easy to misuse and easy to get false readings from. 95% of radar tickets are improperly issued. Not that the radar gun was wrong, but the user was flat to lazy to follow the procedure in which they were trained to use the gun. They take the lazy way out by depending on the gun to tell them the speed and then attach that to you. In Florida (and most other states) the officer is supposed to visually track you to determine speed and then verify the calculation using the gun. They skip over the first part of that requirement because, well because it is too much effort. They have to count and use math and verify all by a trained procedure. Heck that is work they can avoid. Noone in the field but them know how they are using that radar gun. Unless you are capable of arguning differently before a judge.

Now comes the hard part for you. You have to know how they are supposed to use that radar gun, how that radar gun works in theory and prove they didn't properly evaluate your speed as the law spells out they are required to. It is not hard to do, but you have to have it down cold in court, because the judge also does not know how to look at your argument evidence very well either (hardly anyone evers argues it). The officer on the other hand always knows that if he can show he/she is certified and trained in the use of the measuring equipment and the equipment is current that is almost always the extent of the evidence the judge ever considers.

In the case cited by the Shreveport officer, he neglected to take into account the pan angle which attaches a pan error calculation that he is responsible for knowing. He most likely simply would have had the gun set on "4" running wide open and when it sounds off, he places the most likely car he sees in his view as the offending culprit. There are many components left out of his described scenario that can bring into question the result of that radar gun. There is no scenario of a vehicle coming across a radar beam that will allow for unquestioned accuracy.

Radar guns return on the largest target in its field. If you are the only target and the gun is aimed within the guidelines of proper line of sight, you are going to get pinged a VERY accurate result back. If however you the motorcycle is say 1/2 mile away and there are surrounding cars or trucks, both in front and in back of you that gun is now returning on a LOT of targets, and you are the smallest target it is using to return a result. There is PLENTY of room for error here. That officer has the obligation by law to determine visually first that YOU are in fact the offending speeder and then verify that deduction with the radar gun set to properly isolate you the target. This visual portion is called a tracking history and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 or 7 seconds to be done properly, depending on the skill and conditions present.. THEN the gun is used to verify his trained eye measurement.

For that to be done by the method they are told to use (trained by the book), takes an additional 3-4 seconds at least. Using simple math you can determine your speed and distance in relation to that half mile. 95% of the time you can prove that the officer was not actually using trained procedural methods of speed detection, because the distance you covered simply can't mathmatically match the time required to properly determine your vehicles speed "by the book".

To simplify the reality, what usually happens is the officer sits in his vehicle or drives in the case of a moving vehicle and runs his radar at the most liberal settings they have, which is generally about a mile of distance out and no filtering components taken into account. He may or may not see you first but he most assuredly looks when his gun goes beep. When he hears that beep, which by the way is an operator set speed level, he just says OK your it because you look like your going faster than the rest of the cars around you. He pulls you over and the rest you know. That is nothing like what they are supposed to do in trained legal reality, but nobody knows that but them. They take the laziest approach possible, knowing full well they have no accountability for the reality of that ticket.

In court you do not have to prove what your speed was, you just have to prove that there is no way the officer knows what it was with legal accuracy. He/she has a legally binding responsibility to PROVE your speed before they cite you and that withstand evaluation in court.

While I will not admit or deny if I have ever actually been speeding, I will admit that I knew that 1 of the 5 times radar was used, I knew I was not going to be able to discredit the result of the cited speed. There were no arguable circumstances that allowed me to discredit the officer. I never went to court to argue it because it was unwinnable. But the 4 other times, I have been able to prove they really have no idea how fast I was actually going in order to write a proper speeding ticket and have had the ticket dismissed easily.

When I go to court I have the operators manuals for the guns, the training courses they took, the questions they are tested and expected to pass, spreadsheets of time and distance tables, photos, traffic enginering tables etc. You go prepared and you go to discredit that officers ability. It isn't hard to do but it doesn't happen without YOU being fully prepared and aware of how to argue it. I have pissed off more than one cop in court.

I can tell you that ALWAYS ALWAYS the judge likes preparedness and supporting evidence better than you say one thing and the cop says another.
 
I feel your pain.  Last year I got pulled over in Miisouri in about the same manner.  I was in the middle of nowhere and the only person in sight.  Deputy dog comes around a corner going the other way and tags me with the moving radar.  I pull over and wait for him to turn around.  Bastid writes me up for 61 in a 35 and recless driving.  Got a lawer and the ticket vanished.
 
(TallTom @ Oct. 26 2006,20:10) OK I am going to suggest that everything in your story is as you say it is and that you weren't speeding. I'll chime in the info to help your argument. I used to calibrate radar guns. They are pretty much as accurate as they will ever be if they are calibrated and pass the self test. However what else they have done is make the user (LEO) very lazy. Yes the Shreveport officer above follows the proper procedure of the tuning fork at the begin and end of shift. However that is only a procedural warm blanket requirement. That officer is simply fulfilling the legal obligation to satisfy its field operation. He forgets about 85% of the radar theory of operation he is taught in class, simply because nobody requires they give a real crap about it out in the field.

I can make a garbage can register speed on a fully functional radar gun. The user has much more responsibilty for verification than the radar gun does. Radar guns are easy to fool, easy to misuse and easy to get false readings from. 95% of radar tickets are improperly issued. Not that the radar gun was wrong, but the user was flat to lazy to follow the procedure in which they were trained to use the gun. They take the lazy way out by depending on the gun to tell them the speed and then attach that to you. In Florida (and most other states) the officer is supposed to visually track you to determine speed and then verify the calculation using the gun. They skip over the first part of that requirement because, well because it is too much effort. They have to count and use math and verify all by a trained procedure. Heck that is work they can avoid. Noone in the field but them know how they are using that radar gun. Unless you are capable of arguning differently before a judge.

Now comes the hard part for you. You have to know how they are supposed to use that radar gun, how that radar gun works in theory and prove they didn't properly evaluate your speed as the law spells out they are required to. It is not hard to do, but you have to have it down cold in court, because the judge also does not know how to look at your argument evidence very well either (hardly anyone evers argues it). The officer on the other hand always knows that if he can show he/she is certified and trained in the use of the measuring equipment and the equipment is current that is almost always the extent of the evidence the judge ever considers.

In the case cited by the Shreveport officer, he neglected to take into account the pan angle which attaches a pan error calculation that he is responsible for knowing. He most likely simply would have had the gun set on "4" running wide open and when it sounds off, he places the most likely car he sees in his view as the offending culprit. There are many components left out of his described scenario that can bring into question the result of that radar gun. There is no scenario of a vehicle coming across a radar beam that will allow for unquestioned accuracy.

Radar guns return on the largest target in its field. If you are the only target and the gun is aimed within the guidelines of proper line of sight, you are going to get pinged a VERY accurate result back. If however you the motorcycle is say 1/2 mile away and there are surrounding cars or trucks, both in front and in back of you that gun is now returning on a LOT of targets, and you are the smallest target it is using to return a result. There is PLENTY of room for error here. That officer has the obligation by law to determine visually first that YOU are in fact the offending speeder and then verify that deduction with the radar gun set to properly isolate you the target. This visual portion is called a tracking history and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 or 7 seconds to be done properly, depending on the skill and conditions present.. THEN the gun is used to verify his trained eye measurement.

For that to be done by the method they are told to use (trained by the book), takes an additional 3-4 seconds at least. Using simple math you can determine your speed and distance in relation to that half mile. 95% of the time you can prove that the officer was not actually using trained procedural methods of speed detection, because the distance you covered simply can't mathmatically match the time required to properly determine your vehicles speed "by the book".

To simplify the reality, what usually happens is the officer sits in his vehicle or drives in the case of a moving vehicle and runs his radar at the most liberal settings they have, which is generally about a mile of distance out and no filtering components taken into account. He may or may not see you first but he most assuredly looks when his gun goes beep. When he hears that beep, which by the way is an operator set speed level, he just says OK your it because you look like your going faster than the rest of the cars around you. He pulls you over and the rest you know. That is nothing like what they are supposed to do in trained legal reality, but nobody knows that but them. They take the laziest approach possible, knowing full well they have no accountability for the reality of that ticket.

In court you do not have to prove what your speed was, you just have to prove that there is no way the officer knows what it was with legal accuracy. He/she has a legally binding responsibility to PROVE your speed before they cite you and that withstand evaluation in court.

While I will not admit or deny if I have ever actually been speeding, I will admit that I knew that 1 of the 5 times radar was used, I knew I was not going to be able to discredit the result of the cited speed. There were no arguable circumstances that allowed me to discredit the officer. I never went to court to argue it because it was unwinnable. But the 4 other times, I have been able to prove they really have no idea how fast I was actually going in order to write a proper speeding ticket and have had the ticket dismissed easily.

When I go to court I have the operators manuals for the guns, the training courses they took, the questions they are tested and expected to pass, spreadsheets of time and distance tables, photos, traffic enginering tables etc. You go prepared and you go to discredit that officers ability. It isn't hard to do but it doesn't happen without YOU being fully prepared and aware of how to argue it. I have pissed off more than one cop in court.

I can tell you that ALWAYS ALWAYS the judge likes preparedness and supporting evidence better than you say one thing and the cop says another.


before you start bashing my knowledge of radar guns and the variables involved in obtaining an accurate speed. you should also take into consideration that i teach the class. im not gonna sit here and teach a class to these guys over the internet. first of all it would take too long to do it and if i did im not sure they would interpret it correctly because if you wanna get right down to it, it gets kinda complicated. they arent gonna understand doppler pitches and visual estimation unless they have been directly exposed to it. so you do your best to discredit me. it has obviously been a long time since you have had any dealings with radar because your still talking about "beeps" and "operator preset speed alert" radars now dont have those options anymore. Just to educate YOU a little, my radar is a "Stalker" with dual antennas with a display dedicated to each antenna. Thats right, I can get speeds coming towards me from either direction AND i can do it at the SAME TIME. Also i can single out the fastest moving vehicle in a group of vehicles. Im not doing it, the unit does it for me. Buddy your living in a stone age and obviously have no current training. i think what has actually happened here is youve bought some book off the internet to teach you how to beat a speeding ticket in court.

to the rest of you, i hope you realize that "professional courtesy" has been around for as long as human beings have been enforcing law. It is in place for several reasons. Im sure some of you understand it but it seems like the rest of you dont want to understand it. But the best way i could explain it is that it would be almost exactly like writing one of your family members a ticket. you can come on here and say you would do it but we all know that even on your worst day your not gonna ticket your own family. We are held to a higher standard than the general public around here. IF i have to deal with an officer who was recklessly endangering the public, it would not be in the form of a ticket. It would most likely be through his chain of command. and trust me it would pale in comparison to ticket. Most likely days off or a suspension in some cases. IT HAS HAPPENED!!!! but we arent ever gonna start ticketing each other.

Guys i apologize if i upset anyone on the board that was not my intention. I was simply trying to share some knowledge to help the poster of this thread and i hope in some way i have done that.

bowing out.......
bowdown.gif
 
(TallTom @ Oct. 26 2006,20:10) OK I am going to suggest that everything in your story is as you say it is and that you weren't speeding. I'll chime in the info to help your argument.  I used to calibrate radar guns.  They are pretty much as accurate as they will ever be if they are calibrated and pass the self test.   However what else they have done is make the user (LEO) very lazy.  Yes the Shreveport officer above follows the proper procedure of the tuning fork at the begin and end of shift.  However that is only a procedural warm blanket requirement.  That officer is simply fulfilling the legal obligation to satisfy its field operation.  He forgets about 85% of the radar theory of operation he is taught in class, simply because nobody requires they give a real crap about it out in the field.

I can make a garbage can register speed on a fully functional radar gun.  The user has much more responsibilty for verification than the radar gun does.  Radar guns are easy to fool, easy to misuse and easy to get false readings from.  95% of radar tickets are improperly issued.  Not that the radar gun was wrong, but the user was flat to lazy to follow the procedure in which they were trained to use the gun.  They take the lazy way out by depending on the gun to tell them the speed and then attach that to you.  In Florida (and most other states) the officer is supposed to visually track you to determine speed and then verify the calculation using the gun.  They skip over the first part of that requirement because, well because it is too much effort.  They have to count and use math and verify all by a trained procedure.  Heck that is work they can avoid.  Noone in the field but them know how they are using that radar gun.    Unless you are capable of arguning differently before a judge.  

Now comes the hard part for you.  You have to know how they are supposed to use that radar gun, how that radar gun works in theory and prove they didn't properly evaluate your speed as the law spells out they are required to.  It is not hard to do, but you have to have it down cold in court, because the judge also does not know how to look at your argument evidence very well either (hardly anyone evers argues it).  The officer on the other hand always knows that if he can show he/she is certified and trained in the use of the measuring equipment and the equipment is current that is almost always the extent of the evidence the judge ever considers.

In the case cited by the Shreveport officer, he neglected to take into account the pan angle which attaches a pan error calculation that he is responsible for knowing.  He most likely simply would have had the gun set on "4" running wide open and when it sounds off, he places the most likely car he sees in his view as the offending culprit.  There are many components left out of his described scenario that can bring into question the result of that radar gun.  There is no scenario of a vehicle coming across a radar beam that will allow for unquestioned accuracy.  

Radar guns return on the largest target in its field.  If you are the only target and the gun is aimed within the guidelines of proper line of sight, you are going to get pinged a VERY accurate result back.  If however you the motorcycle is say 1/2 mile away and there are surrounding cars or trucks,  both in front and in back of you that gun is now returning on a LOT of targets, and you are the smallest target it is using to return a result. There is PLENTY of room for error here.   That officer has the obligation by law to determine visually first that YOU are in fact the offending speeder and then verify that deduction with the radar gun set to properly isolate you the target.  This visual portion is called a tracking history and can take anywhere from 3 to 6 or 7 seconds to be done properly, depending on the skill and conditions present..  THEN the gun is used to verify his trained eye measurement.

For that to be done by the method they are told to use (trained by the book), takes an additional 3-4 seconds at least.  Using simple math you can determine your speed and distance in relation to that half mile.  95% of the time you can prove that the officer was not actually using trained procedural methods of speed detection, because the distance you covered simply can't mathmatically match the time required to properly determine your vehicles speed "by the book".

To simplify the reality, what usually happens is the officer sits in his vehicle or drives in the case of a moving vehicle and runs his radar at the most liberal settings they have, which is generally about a mile of distance out and no filtering components taken into account.  He may or may not see you first but he most assuredly looks when his gun goes beep.  When he hears that beep, which by the way is an operator set speed level, he just says OK your it because you look like your going faster than the rest of the cars around you.  He pulls you over and the rest you know.  That is nothing like what they are supposed to do in trained legal reality, but nobody knows that but them.  They take the laziest approach possible, knowing full well  they have no accountability for the reality of that ticket.

In court you do not have to prove what your speed was, you just have to prove that there is no way the officer knows what it was with legal accuracy.  He/she has a legally binding responsibility to PROVE your speed before they cite you and that withstand evaluation in court.

While I will not admit or deny if I have ever actually been speeding, I will admit that I knew that 1 of the 5 times radar was used, I knew I was not going to be able to discredit the result of the cited speed.  There were no arguable circumstances that allowed me to discredit the officer. I never went to court to argue it because it was unwinnable.  But the 4 other times, I have been able to prove they really have no idea how fast I was actually going in order to write a proper speeding ticket and have had the ticket dismissed easily.  

When I go to court I have the operators manuals for the guns, the training courses they took, the questions they are tested and expected to pass, spreadsheets of time and distance tables, photos, traffic enginering tables etc.  You go prepared and you go to discredit that officers ability.  It isn't hard to do but it doesn't happen without YOU being fully prepared and aware of how to argue it.  I have pissed off more than one cop in court.

I can tell you that ALWAYS ALWAYS the judge likes preparedness and supporting evidence better than you say one thing and the cop says another.
All of that sounds good, but here in NC 90% of what you said will not hold water unless you have a judge who decides to make their own law from the bench. I've seen all of what you said come into court, and none of it has worked as long as the LEO followed the law in operating the radar. I speak from my own trial experience.
 
(RCKTMAN @ Oct. 27 2006,04:23) Im not doing it, the unit does it for me.
"I'm not doing it, the unit does it for me."

That is the first thing that will let me win in court.

Are you not required in your state to establish a visual tracking history? I am merely pointing out the radar has many flaws in its use and technology. I can't speak for La. but here in Fl. where I am, you are or should be clearly trained to undersrtand that the RADAR is used as a secondary means of verifying YOUR expertise in establishing speed. If it worked so well they wouldn't have come up with LIDAR and all the rest of the new ways to improve RELIABLE ways to measure speed.

Say what you like about my knowledge. The laws aren't re-written everytime they come up with a new technology to use. You can tell us all you like of the capabilities of the equipment and you'd be pretty much right. I'm not going to waste a lot of space proving that the RADAR has its limitations and the technology is easily defeated. But here in Fla. and a lot of other states none of that excuses you from doing your job. I am merely pointing out that he can probably challange the skill of the user with a pretty fair chance of proving that the user was incompetent in the eyes of the law.

You better believe that judge expects you to know doppler effects, cosine errors, pan angles etc, because if they don't I am one of the ones that will bring it to thier attention in a courtroom. That is what the laws says you are supposed to know and employ in your attempt at accusingh someone of speeding. I don't make the rules I am merely figuring out how to level the playing field a little here.
 
(RCKTMAN @ Oct. 27 2006,07:23)
Guys i apologize if i upset anyone on the board that was not my intention. I was simply trying to share some knowledge to help the poster of this thread and i hope in some way i have done that. bowing out.......
Hey this made for a good thread all because of you Busa Brother! Maybe you will get someone to rate you ? Seems like just a click thing here! This will get some attention.
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There are  
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against what you are doing with deciding who gets punished. Like insider trading, Enron etc You are the enforcer! Not the judge or jury
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Now tell me who i can pay off to skip the points, so i can rid my Zuki tooo fast like i like to doo all the time!!!
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Hey it sounds to me that if you dont wanna ever get another ticket become a cop or have a family member bcome a come!!!!!!!!!!!WOW i think i lost all respect for cops,not the law,as far as needing them to protect me i got that coverd
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Hey it sounds to me that if you dont wanna ever get another ticket become a cop or have a family member become a cop!!!!!!!!!!!WOW i think i lost all respect for cops,not the law,as far as needing them to protect me i got that covered
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Nothing more than revenue generating for the local PD or State Troopers. It isn't about safety and hasn't been for a long time probably for over 70 years since they started to see the earning potential of speed limits and fines.
 
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