Goodbye Pontiac....
- Thread starter GoAWOL
- Start date
I had a 67 Goat at one time...
4 speed...
convertible..
4 speed...
convertible..
crap...those idiots. No wonder they lose money out the 
They should be making this...
this could have saved them but they're to stupid
Along with a new retro GTO AND be in charge of their own engine division.
Haven't really kept up with them but they used to get whatever dregs
for motors that they could weenie out of the chevy division.
I've owned a ponitiac most of my life (79 Trans am and a 85 Trans Am)
and my parents owned a 70ish catalina with a 400 in it. Hate to see them
go. Don't really think that's the answer to GMs problem...they need better,
MORE EXCITING, more efficient cars (with better pricing/get rid or the union).
Still...I woulda kept the pontiac division and canned buick ???
They should be making this...
this could have saved them but they're to stupid
Along with a new retro GTO AND be in charge of their own engine division.
Haven't really kept up with them but they used to get whatever dregs
for motors that they could weenie out of the chevy division.
I've owned a ponitiac most of my life (79 Trans am and a 85 Trans Am)
and my parents owned a 70ish catalina with a 400 in it. Hate to see them
go. Don't really think that's the answer to GMs problem...they need better,
MORE EXCITING, more efficient cars (with better pricing/get rid or the union).
Still...I woulda kept the pontiac division and canned buick ???
OUTLAW1300
Registered
69 GTO 
. I love the GTO soo much I bought a 2006 GOAT. Uhhh kinda regret it.
. I love the GTO soo much I bought a 2006 GOAT. Uhhh kinda regret it.
that's right the union is the problem...the average joe on the line that has no say so makes all the bad business decisions. god forbid somebody makes a livable wage with decent health care and a pension. imo unions need to buckle down and stop protecting scum bags and focus on taking care the ones that actually work for their paychecks.
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Posted via Mobile Device
CrashBomb
Registered
I've been a Pontiac guy since I was little. My dad always had Pontiacs when he was younger. And we were always a Pontiac family. To say that I'm broken up about this would be an understatement, even though we all knew it was coming. My three Tin Indians, one from the heady days of the American muscle car era, one from the rebirth of the American RWD coupe in the 90s, and one from the far away shores of Australia, are orphans.
I'm usually long winded and philosophical, but I don't really feel like talking about this until the official word actually comes from GM. Instead, I'll copy and paste (another thing I rarely do) some moving words from a friend of mine on a GTO forum. It's long, but it conveys a little of what we're feeling.
-1stChildhood-(username)
"I'm one of the older members here, age 61 1/2. I bought a new GTO because I am a Pontiac guy through and through, and I missed the first goats by about 6 years. I've had 3 TransAms (all new) and all manner of other Pontiacs, and other brands too, but never had a GTO. I am about ready to retire and still plan to buy a '64 GTO.
Some members are solid Pontiac fans, some think they are, and some couldn't really care less what brand--they just bought an 04 05 06 because it was one of the few affordable RWD performance cars out there. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I am a Pontiac fan, the kind that GM pissed away and pissed off over the years.
My Dad was a Pontiac man. The first car I ever rode in was a 1948 Pontiac. I clearly remember when we bought a new 1953 Chieftain. My Dad had that 13 years, and he still had it when we got a new '65 Catalina. I put most of the miles on that car at age 17. He had a series of later models. He died in 2000.
My first new Pontiac was a '77 TransAm. One of the main reasons we both bought Pontiacs was the local dealer..good honest service, no purchasing BS, people you could talk to, and who would, and did come out on a Sunday morning when a new car sprung a transmission line leak as I was leaving for vacation. A place you could hang out if you wanted to. That dealer folded a couple years ago; third generation. The 3rd generation guy was a classmate and friend of mine. I am still almost physically sick over that.
Now this...Pontiac, and maybe GM itself, going by the wayside. Unbelievable. So, I write this for two reasons: 1) to get it off my chest, and 2) to try to convey, maybe for historical purposes, to the younger members, how much something like a car brand can mean to people. The old straight 8 Chieftain that I learned to drive in, and the '65 Catalina in which I escaped the bounds of home...as teenagers have been doing for 70 years or so, as cars became common...these memories are a major part of my life, and Pontiac was a big part of it.
When I was 16, I saw my first '64 goat on the street. Red. White convertible top. The Legend. Yes, it had 3 deuces and a 4-speed. What an impression that made. Much later I met the owners of that car. Their son was a student of mine 15 years later. When I got the Torrid '04 I took it to show them.
All this is something a car company cannot buy. In fact, I paid THEM for it...and yet...here we are. There is enough blame to go around---unions abusing their power? (And don't bother to write--I am a 100% union supporter, but I think they got greedy.) Miserable dealers? Yes, some. Poor corporate and brand management by non-car people? Check. Strong competition from other brands and imports? Yes. Many of you, even though you are young, know a lot about business; more than I do. You can probably name numerous other factors that led us to this point.
But I do know a lot about passion for cars and for Pontiac in particular. I can't express how this upsets me. I cannot wrap my head around it at all. I am not expecting to buy another brand-new car anyway, and I'm too old to have the luxury of hope that most of you have that Pontiac might be resurrected someday. This is it for me. If it goes, it goes, and I'll never see another new Pontiac.
I couldn't care less if the GTO goes up or down in value. To think that I will own two orphan cars, like the Packard guys, that hurts. Owning a new and and old Pontiac, but knowing there will never be another, that is not a happy thought. Like the movie said, "Through it all, there has been..baseball." Well, to me, there has always been Pontiac. I can't imagine America without it. But it seems we may not have to imagine, we may have to live with the cold hard reality.
Over & Out"
I'm usually long winded and philosophical, but I don't really feel like talking about this until the official word actually comes from GM. Instead, I'll copy and paste (another thing I rarely do) some moving words from a friend of mine on a GTO forum. It's long, but it conveys a little of what we're feeling.
-1stChildhood-(username)
"I'm one of the older members here, age 61 1/2. I bought a new GTO because I am a Pontiac guy through and through, and I missed the first goats by about 6 years. I've had 3 TransAms (all new) and all manner of other Pontiacs, and other brands too, but never had a GTO. I am about ready to retire and still plan to buy a '64 GTO.
Some members are solid Pontiac fans, some think they are, and some couldn't really care less what brand--they just bought an 04 05 06 because it was one of the few affordable RWD performance cars out there. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I am a Pontiac fan, the kind that GM pissed away and pissed off over the years.
My Dad was a Pontiac man. The first car I ever rode in was a 1948 Pontiac. I clearly remember when we bought a new 1953 Chieftain. My Dad had that 13 years, and he still had it when we got a new '65 Catalina. I put most of the miles on that car at age 17. He had a series of later models. He died in 2000.
My first new Pontiac was a '77 TransAm. One of the main reasons we both bought Pontiacs was the local dealer..good honest service, no purchasing BS, people you could talk to, and who would, and did come out on a Sunday morning when a new car sprung a transmission line leak as I was leaving for vacation. A place you could hang out if you wanted to. That dealer folded a couple years ago; third generation. The 3rd generation guy was a classmate and friend of mine. I am still almost physically sick over that.
Now this...Pontiac, and maybe GM itself, going by the wayside. Unbelievable. So, I write this for two reasons: 1) to get it off my chest, and 2) to try to convey, maybe for historical purposes, to the younger members, how much something like a car brand can mean to people. The old straight 8 Chieftain that I learned to drive in, and the '65 Catalina in which I escaped the bounds of home...as teenagers have been doing for 70 years or so, as cars became common...these memories are a major part of my life, and Pontiac was a big part of it.
When I was 16, I saw my first '64 goat on the street. Red. White convertible top. The Legend. Yes, it had 3 deuces and a 4-speed. What an impression that made. Much later I met the owners of that car. Their son was a student of mine 15 years later. When I got the Torrid '04 I took it to show them.
All this is something a car company cannot buy. In fact, I paid THEM for it...and yet...here we are. There is enough blame to go around---unions abusing their power? (And don't bother to write--I am a 100% union supporter, but I think they got greedy.) Miserable dealers? Yes, some. Poor corporate and brand management by non-car people? Check. Strong competition from other brands and imports? Yes. Many of you, even though you are young, know a lot about business; more than I do. You can probably name numerous other factors that led us to this point.
But I do know a lot about passion for cars and for Pontiac in particular. I can't express how this upsets me. I cannot wrap my head around it at all. I am not expecting to buy another brand-new car anyway, and I'm too old to have the luxury of hope that most of you have that Pontiac might be resurrected someday. This is it for me. If it goes, it goes, and I'll never see another new Pontiac.
I couldn't care less if the GTO goes up or down in value. To think that I will own two orphan cars, like the Packard guys, that hurts. Owning a new and and old Pontiac, but knowing there will never be another, that is not a happy thought. Like the movie said, "Through it all, there has been..baseball." Well, to me, there has always been Pontiac. I can't imagine America without it. But it seems we may not have to imagine, we may have to live with the cold hard reality.
Over & Out"
Bad business decision...like the union.
They've helped bankrupt their own company.
Truth of the matter is PENSIONS and helthcare is
a bullsh luxury that the competitive auto industry
can not afford.
What if EVERY business, every job had to provide
pensions and healthcare on par with what the
automaker unions got...from the MacDonalds cashier
to the jiffy store gas station attnedant...
what would that do the cost of living, the cost of
everything...
What makes autoworkers think they are something special and entitled,
education...uh...no. Performing a task no one else can do...uh..no...
Why does the guy sitting on a fork lift driving around a car mfg. make
68,000+ pension, days off, perks...while the same guy driving a fork lift
around my company makes 28,000 with no pension and perks...and the auto
companies are going bankrupt...well, duh.
Not to menion, paying a pension for the last 3 guys that sat on that lift and
now sit at home getting paid.
And what exactly is a livable wage...$70,000 a year for someone with little
education and virtually no responsibility.
They've helped bankrupt their own company.
Truth of the matter is PENSIONS and helthcare is
a bullsh luxury that the competitive auto industry
can not afford.
What if EVERY business, every job had to provide
pensions and healthcare on par with what the
automaker unions got...from the MacDonalds cashier
to the jiffy store gas station attnedant...
what would that do the cost of living, the cost of
everything...
What makes autoworkers think they are something special and entitled,
education...uh...no. Performing a task no one else can do...uh..no...
Why does the guy sitting on a fork lift driving around a car mfg. make
68,000+ pension, days off, perks...while the same guy driving a fork lift
around my company makes 28,000 with no pension and perks...and the auto
companies are going bankrupt...well, duh.
Not to menion, paying a pension for the last 3 guys that sat on that lift and
now sit at home getting paid.
And what exactly is a livable wage...$70,000 a year for someone with little
education and virtually no responsibility.
Car company downfall in a nutshell.. how can a person making $15 per hour afford to buy a car from a person making $30 per hour.
And somehow I think this also relates to some the credit problem we, as a country, are now experiencing.
And somehow I think this also relates to some the credit problem we, as a country, are now experiencing.
I think with benifits it works out closer to $70 an hour...
and that doesn't include all the retired/pensions
and we wonder why a fricken car is $43,000...used to be those
were your beemer prices, now it's just an american car with a v-8
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Evil_keeps_me_young
Registered
that stinks...
should the uaw cut costs and scale back to help their hurting companys? sure but to say they shouldn't have healthcare or pensions because you or somebody else doesn't have them just doesn't make sense. when times were good the uaw got super greedy and super lazy and the automakers let them get away with it. they didn't mind because frankly they were doing the same but at a much higher and corporate level. theres too much waste all around and everybody needs to be put back in check but that doesn't have to mean no health care or pension.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posted via Mobile Device
Uh yeah it does. The COMPANY IS BANKRUPT
...helloThe auto companies show up to our govt' hat in hand groveling
for a handout to keep their doors open while paying a large group of
people a large sum of money just because they used to work there.
Not much different than the golden parachutes only in installments.
There is no entitlement here.
I can see military, fireman, or LEOs getting pensions as their job is
hazardous, physical, requires training and or education and length of service
to us all.
A line worker at an auto plant has none of that and on top that, already pays
very well. Take care of your own retirement like the rest of the country...not
have us pay for it with every car we buy and then ask for a handout.
And people wonder why we don't buy American ???
Dont wont to make this an argument, but the only thing that is bringing GM down is management. 10 years ago Ford announced a restructuring plan and had seen this problem coming, amazing that management actually cared about its own company and guess what, Ford did not take the gov handout, and actually posted a better than expected 1/4. Go Blue oval and down with any company with piss poor management. 
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