Gen 2 Busa Ecu Flash

[BANDITBUSA]

Hello Busa forum members...know this has been beat to death but curious to know exactly what I should modify in the ECU...most likely sending it to Frank at Powerhouse for the flash...2014 Busa ABS...Full R77 exhaust,K&N filter,PC5 with autotune,sealed ram air ducts and airbox sealed at frame...thanks in advance for info and advice...

 

[BANDITBUSA]

Cricket cricket...lol...

 

[Johnnycheese]

Who ever you send it to should ba able to tell you what and way.....
If you are asking the board I didn't know they could tune.........

 

[Getn off]

Frank did mine and I am very happy with it. I did have him lower the temp the fans kick on, as I live in Florida and she gets pretty warm in traffic in the summer. Lowering the limits helps a lot.
Troy

 

[BANDITBUSA]

Well...I guess that is ultimately the point of my question...based on all the info I've gathered is flashing really a tune or just unlocking restrictions per say...I was told by one flasher not a forum member that he could flash my ecu and has the fueling mapped in the ecu to the point I can toss my PC5 & auto tune in the trash...this is with a bench flash...is that possible?

 

[nosbig]

I am not a tuner, but that sounds like a bad idea. I would not mess with the A/F ratios without having it on a dyno. No two bikes are the same. Personally I wouldn't take the chance.

A good tuner with a dyno can flash your ecu and having your bike running as good as your PC5, bit it will take some time. Or you could have someone remove the restrictions lower your fan temp and let your PC do its thing with the A/F.

Hopefully one of the expert tuners that we have here will chime in and correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Johnnycheese]

Well...I guess that is ultimately the point of my question...based on all the info I've gathered is flashing really a tune or just unlocking restrictions per say...I was told by one flasher not a forum member that he could flash my ecu and has the fueling mapped in the ecu to the point I can toss my PC5 & auto tune in the trash...this is with a bench flash...is that possible?

If they can do that without your bike on a dyno...............



RUN

 

[Ham]

Just ride the bike how often are you gonna top out really. I fast powerful street bike is just bragging rights

 

[Dennis]

I think I'll type this once and then cut/paste if I ever answer a thread on this topic again.

My opinion and observations:
The variation from bike to bike as manufactured by Suzuki is very small, if even perceptible. I have lost count of how many stock motor bikes I have had my hand in setting up and flashing. I use the same tune for all these bikes and the primary measurable results come from drag racing. Power is very visible in the mph on the ticket. Considering the effect of total weight, the relative air density and water in the air I have had only one bike that didn't respond the same as the rest. Once we changed the exhaust it then ran the same as the rest. The point here is that I reject the idea that every bike is different and must be dyno tuned to be "right". I do believe that based on the mods you make you will get very predictable results, so choosing the mods correctly is important. If you do so and get a good tune that matches your mods you will be successful. This is how Brock has been so successful with his tunes he provides with his exhausts.

I believe the dyno is a great way to start if you make big changes and need to get close. It certainly is a safe, controlled way to get the data you need but it does cost money. Making tuning changes, riding the bike on the street or track and datalogging the a/f will give you real world results. This is all a dyno does ... there is no magic. The dyno doesn't simulate ram air (you can turn compensation off to tune). The tune I use was created on a dyno and is not perfect. The a/f ratio moves around a bit. I spent a summer logging and adjusting fueling and didn't go any faster. Eventually I just went back to the tune as I started with it. A friend of mine took his bike (with my tune) to a guy I respect who has built and tuned some very good running prostreet bikes and had it tuned. It made 5 more hp on the dyno. It did not go any faster on the track.

My conclusion: a good dyno tune will work well, but so will a good tune from a similar bike or a tune from real world data. Figure out what you want and pick the path you like. Some guys like the more aggressive timing in lower gears for street riding and a simple reflash with no fuel/timing adjustment gets them this. Maybe you want the limiters removed for bragging rights. You could do both these things and then let the autotune on the PC5 do its job.

 

[BANDITBUSA]

I would be inclined to agree only difference being EU versions because of emissions not strictly as regulated which to my understanding is what a ecu flash in the states is really doing in a sense is,those bikes aren't neutered ours are hence the flash to un-govern it so to speak...as to fuel mapping from one bike to another I would think the dyno itself would make more of a difference than the bike itself...it's a controlled environment with no ram air (real reason I got an autotune) because other than atmospheric conditions...one bike with similar mods can't differ that much from another...nitrous and turbo bikes or bikes the motor has been worked over excluded...those are whole different animals and need precise tuning because you have stepped way outside the designed parameters the ecu can keep up with...am I wrong in that assessment?

 

[Mythos]

I was told by one flasher not a forum member that he could flash my ecu and has the fueling mapped in the ecu to the point I can toss my PC5 & auto tune in the trash...this is with a bench flash...is that possible?

Based on my rigorous albeit fledgling experience with AutoTune last summer, I will agree with that statement. YES, you can make it almost perfect with Autotune. NO, you will not tell a difference unless the flashed mapping was made at a much different altitude or climate. Your AFR is never be stable anyway because of the myriad of variables in ambient temp, humidity, engine temp, gas....etc, etc, etc. You can't tell any difference between 12.5 AFR and 13. Only time I noticed a change in performance was when my bike was idling very lean and it began idling normally when Autotune corrected. I never felt a difference while actually riding the bike. Yeah, Autotune will adjust to anything via closed loop trims but this only works for cruising and perhaps top speed. Autotune is much too slow to adjust on the fly for any situation where the throttle openings and rpms are changing every half second or less (and that is normal sport riding to me). Autotune takes approximately 2 seconds to hone in on your target AFR and it is impossible to stay at one rpm and one throttle position unless you are cruising. Think about it--the bike won't do that except for that narrow stairway in the map where the engine holds steady rpm at steady throttle position. Anything outside of that, the bike is decelerating or it will quickly climb in rpm. For tuning out of the cruising range, you must do multiple runs because Autotune is too slow to get it dead on with rpm climbing so fast. A few hours later, your AFR is off a little because the bike has gotten hotter or the humidity changed. Not really a problem. Like I said, you can't tell the diff between 12.5 and 13. Maybe if you are racing it would give you and edge to have exact AFR but nothing you can feel.

I'd keep the AutoTune and PC5 because it will allow you to tune for touring or cold weather if you take an interest and have the time. It does require a considerable investment in time to learn how it all works. If you are into the tuning scene, you will probably find some situations where you appreciate the nuances it might offer. You can enter a pretty lean AFR for cruising for example and this will improve fuel mileage for touring. If you just go on a flash alone, you are tied to whatever the tuner flashed. I guess the first thing to consider is, "how much time do I want to spend fiddling with stuff?"

 

[BANDITBUSA]

Ok...now this...Flash Tune ECU... Remove all restrictions. Custom fuel maps. Custom ignition maps. Custom Sec.throttle plate (STP) opening. Custom fuel trim maps. Adj.(raise) rev limit. Adj.idle tables. Remove top speed limiter. Disable Injector cut. Bypass...c24-c27 IG Coils...c-49 Pair valve...c28-c29 STP...c44 O2 sensor...c91 speedo sensor. ECU editor...From my understanding has been superceded by Woolich (WRT? IAP fuel maps. TPS fuel maps. Ignition timing maps. STP (sec.throttle plate) opening map. Injector balance maps. RAM air maps. Fuel trim maps. Adj.(raise) idle...would like to have it at 1,400-1,500 cold start 1,200-1,250 warm constant. Adj.cooling fan to come on sooner...195*F? Remove speed limiter. Disable pair valve,O2 Sensor,ISC (Idle Solenoid Control),TOS (TiPhone Over Sensor) ECU mode?? With Flash Tune don't see where cooling fan temp adj.is available or injector balance...everything else looks the same with different terminology? Is that correct? Now...which flash with modifications I am running...keep in mind I would like to keep the ABC mode...Not a drag bike but want optimum performance when I want it but rideability when I feel like being pedestrian (my wife rides with me sometimes and she will appreciate it)...please chime in knowledgeable forum members...thanks

 

[Johnnycheese]

Again for the million time no Woolich use only ECU editor

 

[BANDITBUSA]

Actually the other option I was referencing was Flashtune ECU...but when you Google search ECU Editor for Hayabusa the site that comes up is Woolich and it states ECU Editor is no longer in "active development"...which tells me they are no longer tuning parameters inside the Hayabusa ecu...have they perfected it and woolich is now just beating a dead horse?

 

[Johnnycheese]

Boost by Smith and download it much better than woolich and free

 

[BANDITBUSA]

But then I need log box, harness etc...I don't plan on doing this for a living and doing 10 other bikes etc...I just want a performance (in all areas) flash done by someone who has the software to enhance all adjustable parameters in the ecu to benefit performance and rideability based on my modifications...what are the recommended changes needing to be flashed into the ecu...most of the people who flash say they don't adjust any of the fueling with the flash...

 

[nosbig]

You have autotune you don't need them to adjust your fueling. You just need restrictions removed and timing adjusted.

 

[BANDITBUSA]

Understood...but wouldn't adjusted fueling in the ECU make the autotune/pc 5 tune more optimally with better fueling there already as a base...much like a base map does for the pc5?

 

[sixpack577]

Have the ecu flashed.
Basic flash, do not touch air/fuel.
Use Auto-tune or dyno tune for air/fuel.
And it's done.

Basic flash is
Busa smart TRE activated and top speed limiter removed.
Fans on/off sooner, usually 10 degrees.
Stp's(secondary throttle plates)set to use all fuel already available(not the air/fuel).
Stp's set to fastest efficiant opening rate.
Fuel soft cut(conservative rev limiter)turned off, redline automatically goes up 600 rpms.
PAIR valve can be turned off.

 

[BANDITBUSA]

Ok...I assume that's done with ECU editor? Who's the recommended flash guru to send it to? And letting the auto tune do its thing...should I start with a downloadable base map... or zero all fuel settings essentially a 0 map and let the AFR values set in autotune build a map?