Gen 1 with maxed out TD05 on e85

s4060

s4060

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I have a Open wheeler with a Gen1 that has mild head work (mild cams/port and 1mm oversized valves). APE case studs and bigger output shaft with APE HD Springs. Around 200hp na.

I also have a Gen1 (spare motor) that is completely stock, except gearbox (HD Output shaft, APE shift shafts, HD clutch springs) and manual cam tensioner.

Im going to move to turbo, but I am undecided. I am going to use the spare/stock motor and decompress, running e85 and a mid sized intercooler (400x200x70mm). I read the max hp the stock rods can handle is 350hp, so my goal is 320hp.

I would need help with turbo's. I was originally going to use TD05 evo turbo, but read bigger turbo's come on almost as well and give a lot more top end. Thing is I have two evo 7 turbo's on my bench already. These turbos are internally gated and have dual wastegate ports about 1/2" holes which I can port out to 2x 1" holes. I was thinking to max the turbo out on e85 and I should be able to get around 320hp

So with my build I was thinking:

Already have:
- 2x Evo 16G turbo's TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (must PORT WASTEGATE)
The turbo is good for 1.7 - 1.8 bar after that the turbo begins to become inefficient due to overspeed. I have read that you could run 2.0 bar in the mid-range and the compressor will handle it. The turbo spikes at 7,000rpm on a busa and then slowly runs out of puff.

- Emtron KV8 engine management (fuel/spark/boost/etc)
- Fuel pump
- Fuel filter
- Intercooler
- ID 1300cc injectors
- APE HD clutch springs


To Buy:
- Decompression plate
- RCC Turbo manifold
- Turbosmart kompact BOV
- APE adjustable cam sprockets
- Plumbing + hoses
- RCC Plenum

NOTE: When move to turbo Open up stock ring gaps.


Here is an example of a TD05 turbo on a busa, running 9.5psi peak:

td05-bad-GT30R-better.JPG



Am I on the right track or should I be purchasing a gt28rs or gt30r?

Your opinions and experience is appreciated!
 
Go the GT route. If you're opening the motor why not put in rods? Safe insurance and will allow you to turn up the boost if you want.
I didn't see any mention of pistons or lowering the compression...
Why not a tial bov?
 
When I said " Decompression plate" i meant 2mm alloy plate to decompress the CR. Rods would mean AUS$1200 + bearings AUS$300. Thats $1500 I dont have to spend if I stay under 350hp. Easy decision for me.

Which GT and why not TD05? Given it will cost AUS$1000 more minimum?
 
Shade; I respect that opinion, though I prefer to run stock and save the money given I have a spare motor.
 
s4060 said:
RansomT: Why do you think stock OEM gen 1 rods that have done 80,000kms are more likely to snap than new Gen 2 rods?*

*excepting that Gen2's have better oiling crank.
Click to expand...
Hi. You can do any thing you want, but the only way is to do it the wright way. And why do you want to go slow. My open wheel F5000 Lola T142 had 575 Hp. Now the turbo busa I am building should make over 600 RWHP. It is only money.
 
RansomT said:
I don't know about that ... maybe on brand new Gen 2 OEM rods and dead on tune. I personally don't push them past 300 wHP.
Click to expand...

I’ve lost count of how many of my customers bikes are running this exact same set up without having any problems.

This particular bike went 214mph at Lorning with a 400lb rider. If stock rods were gonna go, I feel like that was the ultimate test.

 
s4060 said:
I have a Open wheeler with a Gen1 that has mild head work (mild cams/port and 1mm oversized valves). APE case studs and bigger output shaft with APE HD Springs. Around 200hp na.

I also have a Gen1 (spare motor) that is completely stock, except gearbox (HD Output shaft, APE shift shafts, HD clutch springs) and manual cam tensioner.

Im going to move to turbo, but I am undecided. I am going to use the spare/stock motor and decompress, running e85 and a mid sized intercooler (400x200x70mm). I read the max hp the stock rods can handle is 350hp, so my goal is 320hp.

I would need help with turbo's. I was originally going to use TD05 evo turbo, but read bigger turbo's come on almost as well and give a lot more top end. Thing is I have two evo 7 turbo's on my bench already. These turbos are internally gated and have dual wastegate ports about 1/2" holes which I can port out to 2x 1" holes. I was thinking to max the turbo out on e85 and I should be able to get around 320hp

So with my build I was thinking:

Already have:
- 2x Evo 16G turbo's TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (must PORT WASTEGATE)
The turbo is good for 1.7 - 1.8 bar after that the turbo begins to become inefficient due to overspeed. I have read that you could run 2.0 bar in the mid-range and the compressor will handle it. The turbo spikes at 7,000rpm on a busa and then slowly runs out of puff.

- Emtron KV8 engine management (fuel/spark/boost/etc)
- Fuel pump
- Fuel filter
- Intercooler
- ID 1300cc injectors
- APE HD clutch springs


To Buy:
- Decompression plate
- RCC Turbo manifold
- Turbosmart kompact BOV
- APE adjustable cam sprockets
- Plumbing + hoses
- RCC Plenum

NOTE: When move to turbo Open up stock ring gaps.


Here is an example of a TD05 turbo on a busa, running 9.5psi peak:

View attachment 1583881


Am I on the right track or should I be purchasing a gt28rs or gt30r?

Your opinions and experience is appreciated!
Click to expand...

You can see on the dyno sheet how the power peaks and the dives off. That turbo just doesn’t flow enough for high revving engines. So upping the boost is just gonna make it pump more heat.

At a bare minimum, the GT28 would reach your goals without a problem. I’ve tuned and ridden a few bikes with the gt28s and they are always a plast to ride because of how responsive they are.
 
A TD05 16G Mitsu will be screaming at 350 rear wheel, that turbo is maxing at that level. A better choice would be a TD05/06 - otherwise known as a Super 20H. That one will easily go over 400. Hahn always claimed the Super 16 was able to make 500 rear wheel, he's been full of sh** his whole life . . . I agree with Rob on the GT28, or even a 30. Make sure you cover your bases, you just don't want to be running on the edge all the time . . .
 
No Rob, not "laggy" at all. The 05/06 is the same size on the turbine side, bigger on the compressor side. Same response as a 16G. Last Busa we did made 425 rear wheel at 17 pounds of boost on that turbo, and it was the best upgrade you could do on a Hahn kit . . .
 
Okay so I got my hands on some Carrillo rods. And I already have some forged pistons in the engine (high comp sadly but I can fix that with a spacer).

So I am considering a GT30. Ive looked around and saw a dyno with 350rwhp. I can’t find a dyno with one maxed out on E85/intercooled. Do you experienced guys have a dyno or any guesses on the max hp of a say GT3076?
 
3076 would be almost too large wouldnt it? I'd be more inclined to run the GT28 or even the disco potato.
 
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