Fuggin' Frustrating!

[omslaw]

Well, some of you may recall that I have been fighting a battle trying to find a coolant leak. As in leaking INTO the cylinder(s).

I'll spare everyone the details, but finally got the engine back together and have put about 300 miles on...and I'm *STILL* losing coolant!!!!

The head AND cylinders have been checked for cracks and warpage. Cylinders are fine. Head was not cracked but was warped .005" - yeah that's right 5 THOUSANDS! OK, so I have it decked. (I'm still trying to figure out how the head got warped - bike has NEVER overheated!

New head gasket, new base gasket, new valve seals, new rings...yada...yada.

Still leaking!!!! WTF?!?!!? Where could this leak be?

It's a little leak, but enough to drive me crazy! It shouldn't be leaking at all!!


I'm gonna get my leakdown tester out to find out where it is, but I bet it's #2 cylinder...just like the last TWO TIMES I pulled the head off!

Does anyone have any ideas?? I'm sick of throwing $$$ into finding/fixing this!

 

[KanjiBusa]

That is bull4h@7, Ever think about selling your bike and getting a new one? I have a complete stock exhaust, and stock brake lines. I mean with as much money as you are dropping into this bike trying to find this D@m^ leak, You could buy yourself another one, with enough money for more mods. Sorry to hear Oms. Ok you could always put her down, I do have an Ak-47 that shoots 7.62x39mm rounds that could put a hole right through your head, then you can say..HEY I FOUND MY LEAK!!!

That is cylinder head...Not YOUR head

 

[bacharles]

Hey Omar, I know this might sound like a longshot, but have you thought of having the motor x-rayed?

I have a racing buddy of mine who does it on a regular basis and it seems to do the trick. He had a leak that he couldn't find the same as yours. I called him today and asked him what his thoughts were. He suggested this and now I'm passing the info on to you.

 

[GSXcite]

Sorry to hear that Omar. Did you pull the plug on #2 and find signs of coolant? Is it possiable that the cooling system is just working any air out of it so you need to add coolant?

 

[omslaw]

(bacharles @ Apr. 20 2007,20:04) Hey Omar, I know this might sound like a longshot, but have you thought of having the motor x-rayed?

I have a racing buddy of mine who does it on a regular basis and it seems to do the trick. He had a leak that he couldn't find the same as yours. I called him today and asked him what his thoughts were. He suggested this and now I'm passing the info on to you.

X-rayed? That doesn't sound cheap

Who would do something like that?

 

[omslaw]

(GSXcite @ Apr. 20 2007,21:00) Sorry to hear that Omar. Did you pull the plug on #2 and find signs of coolant? Is it possiable that the cooling system is just working any air out of it so you need to add coolant?

No, haven't pulled it yet. Not sure if I'll have any time before the Bash to look at it.

The coolant level is actually RISING in the overflow bottle and not returning. This tells me that air is getting blown into the cooling system and displacing the coolant into the overflow bottle. Since there is now 'air' in the system, the system pressure isn't rising enough to open the radiator cap to allow the coolant to 'suck' back into the radiator.

Just like the last two times, the leak seems to be sooo small that it will only displace so much coolant. After that point (whatever it is), the level in the bottle stays constant and I need to keep checking the radiator.

The engine oil doesn't seem to be getting contaminated; I never see the 'chocolate milkshake' color and/or bubbles in the oil. Again, it seems to be a VERY small leak - but large enough to frustrate the !@#) outta me!

 

[bacharles]

(omslaw @ Apr. 21 2007,00:16)

(bacharles @ Apr. 20 2007,20:04) Hey Omar, I know this might sound like a longshot, but have you thought of having the motor x-rayed?

 I have a racing buddy of mine who does it on a regular basis and it seems to do the trick.  He had a leak that he couldn't find the same as yours.  I called him today and asked him what his thoughts were.  He suggested this and now I'm passing the info on to you.

X-rayed?  That doesn't sound cheap  

Who would do something like that?

Yeah, I know it sounds crazy Omar, but if you knew someone who worked as a welding inspector, they could hook you up. I realize it sounds far-fetched, but I just wanted to throw possibilities out there for you, and since I know someone personally who has done this, I figured I'd throw it out there for you. Really sucks and I hope you figure it out.

 

[GIXERHP]

If you haven't replaced the thermostat, i would try it first to see if its bad! Remove it from the bike and put into a pot water and boil it to see if it opens!

 

[proud dad]

Check the cylinder deck for flatness when ya had it apart?




ok I see ya did

 

[proud dad]

possibly a weak stud.when it heats up it looses proper torque causes it to warp.was the stud ok around 2 and not pitted?

just a thought

 

[sugarayny]

Omar where you live?? I am by albany ny and got a leak detector that can detect anything with preasure, also I would recomend changing out your coolant fan. sounds dumb I know but listen to this. Lost 1/4 of my coolent in 2 days. Come to find out( i am a electronics tech and never seen this before) the cooling fan will come on for 40 seconds and off until you drive, this will cause air flow throw your radiator and cool, but stop again and you can hear fan only for a short burst tho, change fan see what happens

 

[omslaw]

(bacharles @ Apr. 20 2007,21:47)

(omslaw @ Apr. 21 2007,00:16)

(bacharles @ Apr. 20 2007,20:04) Hey Omar, I know this might sound like a longshot, but have you thought of having the motor x-rayed?

I have a racing buddy of mine who does it on a regular basis and it seems to do the trick. He had a leak that he couldn't find the same as yours. I called him today and asked him what his thoughts were. He suggested this and now I'm passing the info on to you.

X-rayed? That doesn't sound cheap

Who would do something like that?

Yeah, I know it sounds crazy Omar, but if you knew someone who worked as a welding inspector, they could hook you up. I realize it sounds far-fetched, but I just wanted to throw possibilities out there for you, and since I know someone personally who has done this, I figured I'd throw it out there for you. Really sucks and I hope you figure it out.

I'll check around to see if I can find someone to do that.

I'm presuming that I would have to pull the engine to do this?

When your buddy had this done, what did he find was causing the leak?

 

[omslaw]

(GIXERHP @ Apr. 20 2007,22:10) If you haven't replaced the thermostat, i would try it first to see if its bad! Remove it from the bike and put into a pot water and boil it to see if it opens!

Worth a try. Heck anything is at this point!

The only reason that I would want to discount that as the problem is that the previous 2 times I had her apart, there was coolant in the #2 cylinder

Also, I'm fairly sure that I'm detecting the faint odor of coolant out the exhaust. I never see white smoke...just smell it. In fact, today, my buddy told me that he smelled coolant while he was following me

 

[omslaw]

(proud dad @ Apr. 20 2007,22:15) Check the cylinder deck for flatness when ya had it apart?

Yup - even had it decked.

 

[omslaw]

(proud dad @ Apr. 20 2007,22:21) possibly a weak stud.when it heats up it looses proper torque causes it to warp.was the stud ok around 2 and not pitted?

just a thought

Hmmm. Interesting thought.

I didn't pay attention to them. However, the first time I had it apart there was coolant in #2. When I reassembled, the bolts were randomly reinstalled.

When I pulled her apart the second time, there was coolant in #2. Again, the bolts were randomly reinstalled.

 

[omslaw]

(sugarayny @ Apr. 20 2007,22:28) Omar where you live?? I am by albany ny and got a leak detector that can detect anything with preasure, also I would recomend changing out your coolant fan. sounds dumb I know but listen to this. Lost 1/4 of my coolent in 2 days. Come to find out( i am a electronics tech and never seen this before) the cooling fan will come on for 40 seconds and off until you drive, this will cause air flow throw your radiator and cool, but stop again and you can hear fan only for a short burst tho, change fan see what happens

Just outside of KC. I've got a leak-down tester, if that's what you're referring to.

Changing the fan? I'm fairly certain it's not coming on. I'm running Engine Ice and a Muzzy blade. The Muzzy blade moves so much more air, it's loud.

Problem is that coolant is getting displaced into the overflow bottle. An air pocket remains in the system. After a certain point, no more coolant is displaced and then whatever is left leaks/burns off.

Every so often, I siphon out the excess in the bottle and refill the radiator...and then top off with new coolant to bring the level back up to norm.

Repeat about once a month.

 

[jwcfbd]

If your coolant is filling the overflow bottle but is not gettting sucked back into the engine check the overflow line. When I first got my Busa I was smelling coolant and when I started looking for it I found traces of it in my fairings. When I started looking closer I found that the overflow line had cracked which was allowing the coolant to leak out. IF that line is cracked then it will suck air instead of coolant.

 

[silverfreak]

sounds like you have a hairline crack in the #2 cylinder wall.it leaks when it heats up and.i had this happen on a 2005 gsxr 1000.went in and put higher compression pistons in and it had coolant in the #3 cyl when i pulled it apart.thought it just got in when i pulled the head off.put the engine back together and 20 miles and had a leak.the crack was very hard to see.had to have a magnifying glass to find it.might try that. good luck

 

[PDBusa]

Dayum Omar sorry to hear. I wish I knew more about mechanicals to help. To my feeble mind it sounds like maybe the t-stat is involved causing too much pressure. I'd look at that first as mentioned by GXRHP.

 

[ks-waterbug]

Couple of things come to mind...
1. Pressure test the radiator system.
2. Leaking radiator cap, Water pump bad, Plugged radiator, Faulty fan...
3. Have a chemical test done to see if the leak is internal...

You said that the head was warped .005"; this would indicate you might of had this problem longer than you realize!