Fuel safety MR9 vs pump





outlawbusa

1 wheel up aero testing
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#1
Ok, question...I have a gen II and always run 93 octane, firm believer...

Except at Maxton, when we obviously run the hardest out of any "short" track.

Anyway, in the Maxton Mile I run MR9 which is 87 octane but higher oxygen content. How does the motor react to this...does the higher oxygen counter out the combustion issues with 87 octane fuel?

I can tell you per the numbers I've seen it ads about 10 hp with my set up over 93 pump gas.

I run a Brock's Maxton map and on pump gas my bike runs a bit rich on the street. Probably runs about right lean/rich mixture with MR9.
 

Commuta_Busa

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#2
Without actual lambda readings I would have the same assumption as you. I've never run MR9 so I can't provide you any real world data. I don't know of anyone who's running that gas AND data logging from LSR events. You may want to poke around with some of the drag folks running an NA setup. They might be logging and running that gas. It would be nice to see what the gap is between 87 pump and MR9 lambda readings. :thumbsup:
I run a Brock's Maxton map and on pump gas my bike runs a bit rich on the street. Probably runs about right lean/rich mixture with MR9.
 
#3
The oxygen will only adversly effect any octane issues. All the gas is doing is leaning out your motor as you described. Now if you could richen it up some more, you might find a little more horsepower. But, you would have to try it out. Lean motors run fantastic with lots of HP until they don't run anymore.......

Can you get a higher octane oxygenated gasoline? I would give that a try and see what happens. Remember though, all the oxygen in the gas does is lean out your A/F ratio which usually makes more power if your not already too lean. Hope this helps. If you have any questions, I have a lot of experience with oxygenated gasoline.
 

Robot

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#4
The oxygen will only adversly effect any octane issues. All the gas is doing is leaning out your motor as you described. Now if you could richen it up some more, you might find a little more horsepower. But, you would have to try it out. Lean motors run fantastic with lots of HP until they don't run anymore.......

Can you get a higher octane oxygenated gasoline? I would give that a try and see what happens. Remember though, all the oxygen in the gas does is lean out your A/F ratio which usually makes more power if your not already too lean. Hope this helps. If you have any questions, I have a lot of experience with oxygenated gasoline.
Me confused, what is "oxygenated gasoline" ?? Gasoline is a Hydrocarbon Chain(Hydrogen/Carbon), with some additives(depending on the station brand), perhaps oxidizers.

Octane refers to one of the shapes the chain can make. The octane shape inhibits detonation.

Where is this oxygen "in the gasoline" coming from?
 
#5
Robot, you are correct, but they add in an oxygen carrying liquid of which there are a few and this causes the motor to run leaner. Brocks Map which is rich for the street is exactly what you want for running an oxgenated gasoline. The extra gas which causes it to run rich, will be burned when running the oxygenated gasoline. Thus burning more gasoline = more power. You can go way out with this, as I and other racers have and you would have to run the motor pig rich, then you can add an a liquid that will burn all that gasoline causing more power. You can run so much oxygen that you can't alter the system enough to keep it from running too lean. It takes a LOT of testing. It is the trick for all high speed runs, the snowmobile guys use it all the time for world records. Anyway, you have to test and be careful. Seems like Brocks set up a very good map for MR9. Kudos to Brocks....:cheerleader:
 

Robot

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#6
Robot, you are correct, but they add in an oxygen carrying liquid of which there are a few and this causes the motor to run leaner. Brocks Map which is rich for the street is exactly what you want for running an oxgenated gasoline. The extra gas which causes it to run rich, will be burned when running the oxygenated gasoline. Thus burning more gasoline = more power. You can go way out with this, as I and other racers have and you would have to run the motor pig rich, then you can add an a liquid that will burn all that gasoline causing more power. You can run so much oxygen that you can't alter the system enough to keep it from running too lean. It takes a LOT of testing. It is the trick for all high speed runs, the snowmobile guys use it all the time for world records. Anyway, you have to test and be careful. Seems like Brocks set up a very good map for MR9. Kudos to Brocks....:cheerleader:
Thanks for the info and clarification, much appreciated :thumbsup:
 
#7
The #1 oxygen carrying fuel is Nitromethane, but it is not to be used with gasoline. It randomly detonates with gasoline and will run perfect until it doesn't! The only product I know of still on the market that is readliy available is Klotz Nitro additive. It is based on Nitropropane which is safe in gasoline. BUT, the gasoline has to have a very high octane rating when you start pouring this stuff in to the gasoline. 115 Octane is usually used.

Also, the exhaust contains Nitric Acid which isn't good for breathing long term. This is race only stuff.....but it sets land speed records all the time!
 

Robot

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#8
The #1 oxygen carrying fuel is Nitromethane, but it is not to be used with gasoline. It randomly detonates with gasoline and will run perfect until it doesn't! The only product I know of still on the market that is readliy available is Klotz Nitro additive. It is based on Nitropropane which is safe in gasoline. BUT, the gasoline has to have a very high octane rating when you start pouring this stuff in to the gasoline. 115 Octane is usually used.

Also, the exhaust contains Nitric Acid which isn't good for breathing long term. This is race only stuff.....but it sets land speed records all the time!
I believe alot of radio controlled airplane fuel is a small percentage of nitromethane in some type of lubricant base.
 

Mr Bogus

Trouble Makers Inc.
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#10
you can oxygenate your own fuels... :whistle: (illegal in most racing bodies and so you never heard me say "propylene Oxide" or how hazardous it is)

Nitro and gas wont mix but it sure mixes nicely with alcohol.. you need around 20% nitro (this is not by volume but by specific gravity or weight) to see power increases..

While nitro carries its own oxygen, it still needs about 1.5 lbs of air for every pound of fuel.. you should also lower compression ratio considerably (makes more room for fuel) :whistle:
 

outlawbusa

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#11
I believe alot of radio controlled airplane fuel is a small percentage of nitromethane in some type of lubricant base.
Funny story about this...I know a fella (rode a ZX10) that used to try different things in his fuel every now and then. One day I'm behind him and smell something funny, sorta familiarly sweet. I asked him, what the H you burning through your bike. (We race RC cars, see where this is going?). He put a cup or so of 20% nitro methane RC fuel in his pump gas. :whistle:
 
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by Spkrdctr
"Can you get a higher octane oxygenated gasoline? . "

Sunoco 104 is a highly oxygenated high octane fuel that I ran for several years, but you will lose a lot of power unless you can advance ignition for the slower burn, and dyno tune for the extra O2.

Alchohol has a large Oxygen group that breaks off at combustion temperatures, and thus is commonly used to increase O2 content AND to increase Octane (both are good things) but unfortunatly, Alchohol has a fairly low energy content, so you end up having to increase the fuel a bunch and advance ignition.

I finally have Petrik's ECU re-flash software and hardware working so mabey if the track isn't rained out, I can play around with ignition timing and rev limiter changes this weekend. I wouldn't recomend playing with any of this fuel stuff without a datalogger or a dyno..
 

outlawbusa

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#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Spkrdctr


I wouldn't recomend playing with any of this fuel stuff without a datalogger or a dyno..

Yeah really, I don't normally run "special" fuels except on the mile WOT runs so by then it's too late~!~.

I'd run it in the 1/4 maybe, but I have just as much fun letting the front end fly high and free after the rear end gets a grip :fart:
 
#14
Like I said, if you want to experiment with adding oxygen to your gasoline, buy a high octane gas (115 or so) and buy some Klotz Nitro Additive online from Klotz and then run a max of 2 ounces per gallon of gas. This is "if" you have a fuel map that is richer than normal. After that, you are on your own as you have to test, test and test. Keeping an eye on A/F ratio and overall heat. If your running a lean stock set up, then you can't really use the additive. Once you go down this road, you will know your motor better than your wife with all of the testing and tuning fun you will have. Always go in baby steps......
 
#15
OK, here is a story. I was testing for my fuel additive and had a FREAKIN HUGE amount of oxygen added to my gas can for my snowmobile. The sled was set pig rich to run all that oxygen in the gas. Anyway, my wife goes to mow the lawn and you guessed it, she fills up the Sears mower with my test gas. I get home and see the lawn was mowed, I think uh oh, I said "did you have to put gas in the mower"? She says "Yes, the mower was empty", I go out and pull the plug on the mower, sure as shooting, the electrode on the plug is burned off. Technically melted off. It had to be firing to the side of the plug to keep running! Believe it or not, with a new plug, and fresh gas, that motor worked for years. It took a beating and kept on going. I had great respect for lawnmower engines after that!
 
#17
The #1 oxygen carrying fuel is Nitromethane, but it is not to be used with gasoline. It randomly detonates with gasoline and will run perfect until it doesn't! The only product I know of still on the market that is readliy available is Klotz Nitro additive. It is based on Nitropropane which is safe in gasoline. BUT, the gasoline has to have a very high octane rating when you start pouring this stuff in to the gasoline. 115 Octane is usually used.

Also, the exhaust contains Nitric Acid which isn't good for breathing long term. This is race only stuff.....but it sets land speed records all the time!
the carying agent used in the particular racing gas is called MTBE(methyl tertiary butyl ether)very potent stuff.nhra has banned this substance from its racing programs.most of the fuels that use it are generally below 12% of this additive per 55 gallon drum.this is what i have been told by a fuel maker & distributor.
 

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