From the farm to your fridge

The Bible sets forth examples for us, guidelines, it does not tell us we have too but shows us examples of how we should live our lives. The 10 commandments is the only must do. The Bible does not tell us specifically to tithe but gives us examples. I never said anything about abusing animals, that is wrong, but that is on the abusers. God gives us free will and guidelines of how we should live and treat others.
 
I read the back and forth of this issue and yet haven't read any good ideas that would be cost effective to raise and kill these animals for food. Currency is the real culprit here. It's not just the companies trying to keep their profit margin up, it's also us the consumers. Virtually every aspect of life is pretty much based around the all mighty dollar(currency). Change that and there would be a ton of life changing things that would make this world a much better place. Sadly this is next to impossible though.

Correct. In addition to being cruel to animals, animal agriculture is expensive, inefficient, environmentally damaging and provides us with a product that is ultimately not good for us in it's best form and can be flat out dangerous in it's worst - remember, the industry is essentially self-regulated and keeping things sanitary and safe to eat costs money just like treating animals well would.

Profit is, IMHO, 100% the issue with the industry. Like any for profit business, they seek to increase their profit which means cutting costs and treating animals well costs more than treating them like inanimate objects. If it cost less to treat animals well, they'd be doin' that right now.

You are also correct that while the industry does the dirty work, it's us, the consumers, that pay them to do it. Without our demand, the whole thing wouldn't exist at all. While it might be next to impossible to change the world, we each have a choice in what we do to contribute or not to the process.


Vegetarians...
So the most common issues is lack of not eating enough of it? If we all ate this,how much more vegetables would we need to survive compared to what we consume as a whole now?

Or not eating the right stuff due to them being picky? That is pretty much human nature for us to eat foods we enjoy the taste of. Guess that is the reason why most of us have meat in our diet?


Which is not an issue relegated 100% to vegetarianism. Picky eaters are picky eaters, whatever diet they embrace. However, plant foods typically contain fewer calories per serving than animal foods due to the absence of cholesterol and the greatly reduced amount of fats. That said, there are plenty of ways to get calories on plant based diets but, just like if you eat meat, you have to keep in mind health when choosing your foods/meals.
 
The Bible sets forth examples for us, guidelines, it does not tell us we have too but shows us examples of how we should live our lives. The 10 commandments is the only must do.

Which the majority of christians violate the fourth commandment every weekend... but that's an entirely different subject
 
Or not eating the right stuff due to them being picky? That is pretty much human nature for us to eat foods we enjoy the taste of. Guess that is the reason why most of us have meat in our diet?

The ONLY reason any of us enjoy the taste of meat is because it is cooked and usually bombarded with seasoning of some kind. I doubt any meat eater actually eats their meat 100% raw (otherwise they would get very sick)

You don't see any lions taking their freshly killed game over to the BBQ pit and then smoking or cooking the meat.
 
The Bible sets forth examples for us, guidelines, it does not tell us we have too but shows us examples of how we should live our lives. The 10 commandments is the only must do. The Bible does not tell us specifically to tithe but gives us examples. I never said anything about abusing animals, that is wrong, but that is on the abusers. God gives us free will and guidelines of how we should live and treat others.

I'm not suggesting that you advocate abusing animals. Quite the contrary, I was suggesting that most of us DO NOT advocate such things.

It's very easy to say that if the animals are treated poorly then it's on the those who do the treating. But if those who do the treating are only doing so because of the dollors we give them for the result of their actions and we are aware of this, do we have no responsibility in the matter? To bring things back to God and the Bible, would Jesus approve of the factory farm cruelty to animals? Would he approve of our choice to continue to support such an industry?
 
The ONLY reason any of us enjoy the taste of meat is because it is cooked and usually bombarded with seasoning of some kind. I doubt any meat eater actually eats their meat 100% raw (otherwise they would get very sick)

You don't see any lions taking their freshly killed game over to the BBQ pit and then smoking or cooking the meat.

Seasoning and cooking can be done to any food source,but the item being seasoned has to have a desirable flavor to begin with. Cooked or not.

I'm not found of Brussel sprouts. You season them or put whatever sauce you want with them. I still don't enjoy the taste of them. Have I ate them? Yes. will I eat them in the future? Most likely. I won't shop for them,but If I'm over my mothers house and it is a veggie put out with my meal,I'll eat them. but only a small amount.

I have absolutely no desire to eat raw carrots. However I will add them to a mean like a soup. Cut very finely.

Most of health issues that are food related are due to the cost of food and knowledge of food.

Anyone ever watch?
Super Size Me (2004) - IMDb
 
Seasoning and cooking can be done to any food source,but the item being seasoned has to have a desirable flavor to begin with. Cooked or not.

I'm not found of Brussel sprouts. You season them or put whatever sauce you want with them. I still don't enjoy the taste of them. Have I ate them? Yes. will I eat them in the future? Most likely. I won't shop for them,but If I'm over my mothers house and it is a veggie put out with my meal,I'll eat them. but only a small amount.

I have absolutely no desire to eat raw carrots. However I will add them to a mean like a soup. Cut very finely.

Most of health issues that are food related are due to the cost of food and knowledge of food.

Anyone ever watch?
Super Size Me (2004) - IMDb

It's also important to realize that our preference in food is, in large part, simply due to conditioning. This is the reason that foreign foods often do not appeal to us and vice versa. Since most of us are born and bread on animal foods, it's simply natural for us to develop a taste for them. I know that I didn't care for steak until I reached my teens and then I suddenly loved the stuff. Hot dogs, on the other hand, I loved from birth. I used to love scallops as a small child but by the time I reached grade school, they actually made me puke (last time I ever ate them, btw). So again, our taste in food is largely a matter of conditioning, as witnessed by the absolute diversity of diets found across the globe.
 
I am merely asking you the question, yet you answering for "some people". Is that your answer? If not, what is YOUR answer?

The reason that it is important for each of us to answer such questions is that until we do so, we do not truly take responsibility for our choices in the matter. I know I didn't. I had a whole rationale that made my choice to eat meat completely benign. I loved animals and would never hurt them and always helped them when I found any defenseless or hurt. In eating meat, I allowed myself to assume that the farm animals were treated well in every regard and were allowed to live a full and complete life and then, near the end of their natural life, they were peacefully put to sleep and then slaughtered, never experiencing any real pain or fear.

Obviously, I was a) 100% uninformed of what went on to provide meat b) in almost complete denial and c) like so many of us, intentionally avoided learning ANYTHING about the food industry once I suspected there was anything not OK going on.

Had I not become informed, and I did so with GREAT resistance, and asked myself these hard questions, I would have continued, in ignorance, to support something that is simply contrary to my beliefs and attitudes.

I'm not suggesting that anyone HAS to agree with me and I know that many folks will never allow themselves to be educated on the realities so that they can continue to make their choices without feeling conflicted. I know that some are even perfectly fine with the idea of animals suffering on an epic scale for the mere satisfaction of taste. However, I believe that most folks are NOT OK with animals being put through living hell in the name of meat. They might want meat and may never give it up, but I don't think they want animals to be tortured in any way.

So again, I ask the question to all, but specifically, to you.

"Why would we have such compassion for one animal and yet have virtually no compassion for others?"

What is YOUR answer?

My answer is:
I don't see all animals as being same and I don't any of them as being human. I don't advocate abuse, but I don't see a viable alternative. And no, not eating meat is not an option.

Answer this:
Why would we have such compassion for one group (race, sex, age, economic status, social status) of humans and yet have virtually no compassion for others?
How do you feel about the woman who left millions to her dogs and nothing to her children? If she didn't want her children to get her money, there are thousands of human and animal causes that could have benifited from it.
 
My answer is:
I don't see all animals as being same and I don't any of them as being human. I don't advocate abuse, but I don't see a viable alternative. And no, not eating meat is not an option..

If you do not advocate abuse, then buying products from factory farms is contrary to your position. If you continue to buy products from factory farms, then you are, with your food dollar, supporting the practice of cruelty to animals in the industry.


Be advised, there are farms that have "happy meat", but they are independent, small and you generally have to look for them specifically to find them. Before going vegan, I sourced my dairy and eggs from just such a farm. So there is an alternative to factory farm products even in one is not willing to give up meat. But virtually anything you find in a grocery store is from factory farming and it's cruel practices.



Answer this:
Why would we have such compassion for one group (race, sex, age, economic status, social status) of humans and yet have virtually no compassion for others?
How do you feel about the woman who left millions to her dogs and nothing to her children? If she didn't want her children to get her money, there are thousands of human and animal causes that could have benifited from it.

First question: How did the dogs spend the money? Kibble? ;)

I think we might be off on a tangent again, but I will indulge. In general, I have the same level of compassion for any human, one to the next. Now, in terms of groups of humans, it will depend on the grouping...is it a group of their choosing or simply a category of they are a part through no choice of their own (such as race, sex, age, etc).

In the case of the latter, I make no distinction. In the case of the former, once again, it depends on the choice. If they have made a choice to worship a different god, for example, I still make no distinction. If, however, they have chosen to worship a different god and decide that they need to kill others as part of their faith, then I still have compassion for them as human, but given the opportunity, I would not allow them to hurt innocents and would therefore have no problem with them having reduced freedoms to protect those innocents.

As far as the woman leaving money to her dogs and not her family, well, that's a bit odd, for sure. But, again, I don't see how it's relevant.

In both scenario's you've presented, I have no immdediate involvement. I am not in a position to have an immediate and lasting effect in these scenario's, other than what incidentally crosses my path whereas I do with regard to the welfare of animals in the factory farming industry. Simply by not eating meat and other animal products I reduce the demand and thereby the required production and thereby the amount animals that will suffer. So, my choice is to not consume animal products b/c to do otherwise would be contrary to my beliefs and my compassion for all animals, including humans.
 
I'm not suggesting that you advocate abusing animals. Quite the contrary, I was suggesting that most of us DO NOT advocate such things.

It's very easy to say that if the animals are treated poorly then it's on the those who do the treating. But if those who do the treating are only doing so because of the dollors we give them for the result of their actions and we are aware of this, do we have no responsibility in the matter? To bring things back to God and the Bible, would Jesus approve of the factory farm cruelty to animals? Would he approve of our choice to continue to support such an industry?

First of all you are under the assumption that the people I buy my meat from abuses animals. You don't know that nor do I. If I purchase a product I am not responsible for the manufacturing process. places that process meat have USDA inspectors there everyday, not just sometimes but everyday. If Jesus came to visit and if he did not want any meat, we would definitely have a FISH dinner and maybe a little wine.
 
ive had to do work in a kill plant b4. i watched a cow get shot in the head, jump up and get out of the pen. then it ran around like crazy for a while till it died. i wish i had never seen it. but i guess it happens alot. the rest of it wasnt anything like the video. it was a small plant Mcpherson, ks. thier meats are really yummy.

i very much so dissagree with the cruelty that was displayed, but what are you supposed to do? i damn sure know im not giving up my meat, milk or eggs.

we are a carnivorous being by design.
 
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gorilla_05.jpg
 
Angelina Jolie near death from vegan diet, malnutrition [Photos] - National Celebrity Fitness and Health | Examiner.com

Vegan Diet Baby Death

Vegan Diet Leads to Rickets and Death of Child

Vitamin B12, iodine, cholineFurther information: Vitamin B12 deficiency and Iodine deficiency
The Vegan Society and Vegan Outreach recommend that vegans eat foods fortified with B12 or take a supplement. B12 is a bacterial product that cannot be found reliably in plant foods, and is needed for the formation and maturation of red blood cells and the synthesis of DNA, and for normal nerve function; a deficiency can lead to a number of health problems, including megaloblastic anemia.[22] Iodine supplementation may be necessary for vegans in countries where salt is not typically iodized, where it is iodized at low levels, or where, as in Britain or Ireland, dairy products are relied upon for iodine delivery because of low levels in the soil. Iodine can be obtained from most vegan multivitamins or from regular consumption of seaweeds, such as kelp.[23] Vegans may also be at risk of choline deficiency and may benefit from choline supplements.[24]

[edit] Iron, calcium, vitamin D
A vegan burgerFurther information: Iron deficiency, Hypocalcaemia, and Hypovitaminosis D
Iron deficiency may lead to anemia. Iron is less well absorbed from vegetarian diets (10 percent absorption from vegetarian diets, versus 18 percent from an omnivorous diet); vegetarians who exclude all animal products may need almost twice as much dietary iron each day than non-vegetarians. On the other hand, the iron status of omnivores and vegans appears to be similar, and body absorption processes may adjust to low intakes over time by enhancing absorption efficiency.[25] Molasses is a high-iron food source and many vegans take it in spoonfuls as an iron supplement.[26]

It is recommended that vegans eat three servings per day of a high-calcium food, such as fortified soy milk, almonds, hazelnuts, and take a calcium supplement as necessary.[5] The EPIC-Oxford study suggested that vegans have an increased risk of bone fractures over meat eaters and vegetarians, likely because of lower dietary calcium intake, but that vegans consuming more than 525 mg/day had a risk of fractures similar to other groups.[27] A 2009 study of bone density found the bone density of vegans was 94 percent that of omnivores, but deemed the difference clinically insignificant.[28] Another study in 2009 by the same researchers examined over 100 vegan post-menopausal women, and found that their diet had no adverse effect on bone mineral density (BMD) and no alteration in body composition.[29] Biochemist T. Colin Campbell suggested in The China Study (2005) that osteoporosis is linked to the consumption of animal protein because, unlike plant protein, animal protein increases the acidity of blood and tissues, which is then neutralized by calcium pulled from the bones. Cornell wrote that his China-Cornell-Oxford study of nutrition in the 1970s and 1980s found that, in rural China, "where the animal to plant ratio [for protein] was about 10 percent, the fracture rate is only one-fifth that of the U.S."[30]

Regarding vitamin D, Vegan Outreach writes that the only significant natural sources in foods are from fatty fish, such as cod liver oil, mackerel, salmon, and sardines; eggs, if the chickens have been fed vitamin D; and mushrooms if treated with UVB rays. Vegans are therefore advised to use supplements, though light-skinned people can obtain adequate amounts by spending 15 to 30 minutes in the sunlight every few days. Dark-skinned people need significantly more sunlight to obtain the same amount of vitamin D, and sunlight exposure may be difficult in some parts of the world during winter, in which case supplements are recommended.[31]

[edit] Pregnancies and children
Vegan version of a salad popular in Russia, with wakame, root vegetables, avocados, and vegan mayonnaise.The American Dietetic Association considers well-planned vegan diets "appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy and lactation,"[5] but recommends that vegan mothers supplement for iron, vitamin D, and vitamin B12.[32] Vitamin B12 deficiency in lactating vegetarian mothers has been linked to deficiencies and neurological disorders in their children.[33] Some research suggests that the essential omega-3 fatty acid α-linolenic acid and its derivatives should also be supplemented in pregnant and lactating vegan mothers, since they are very low in most vegan diets, and the metabolically related docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is essential to the developing visual and central nervous system.[34] Pregnant vegans may need to supplement choline (see above). A maternal vegan diet has also been associated with low birth weight,[35] and a five times lower likelihood of having twins than those who eat animal products, though the article cited concludes that it is the consumption of dairy products by non-vegans that increases the likelihood of conceiving twins, especially in areas where growth hormone is fed to dairy cattle.[36] Several cases of severe infant or child malnutrition, and some infant fatalities, have been associated with poorly planned, restrictive vegan diets, often insufficient in calories.[37] Dr. Amy Lanou, an expert witness for the prosecution in a case that went to court, wrote that vegan diets are "not only safe for babies; they're healthier than ones based on animal products". She wrote that "the real problem was that [the child] was not given enough food of any sort."[38]

Now i ask you this....If we are supposed to eat a vegan diet why the hell would we have to use suppliments to repair our diet if its what our bodies are supposed to eat? You erally shouldnt go pushing this vegan garbage without doing all the research on it. There are numerous doctors across the world that say how dangerous this diet can be...people have died from it because they didnt take suppliments etc.

ITS REALLY QUITE SIMPLE FOLKS....MODERATION IN EVERYTHING. We as humans are designed to eat a mix of meats and fruits and vegies. To cut one or the other out poses potential health risks.

I do not advocate the abuse of animals just because i choose to buy my meat from walmart. Just like i dont advocate child porn because i choose to buy an adult vid. That would be like saying because i smoke cigerettes that i advocate and think smoking weed is ok.

I am not going to argue that there are some bad employees out there who mistreat animals when it comes time for slaughter or while they are living. It does happen just like everything else out there. It can and does happen. But to totally quit eating meat and endanger your health or to encourage others to do so is irresponsible as well.

As i stated earlier the vid that was originally posted is a fraud. Peta are extremest. That vid takes footage captured ...some of it 15 years ago...some a little newer and puts it out there like it all happening now and is unchecked. I can tell you it is not unchecked and leaps and bounds have been made to improve the conditions in tons of plants. The USDA has expanded and grown exponetially to try to help prevent and correct these types of places.

Until recently i was in the field and have been for like 15 years. I have personally seen the progress and improvements in the way things are done. But ultimately no matter what is done you can not please everyone period. PETA will never be happy ever no matter what. If they had thier way we would be sedating these animals in hospital type environments and holding thier hooves etc till they fell asleep saying prayers over them before we can get down to the business of feeding the world.....Makes me sick.
 
First of all you are under the assumption that the people I buy my meat from abuses animals. You don't know that nor do I. If I purchase a product I am not responsible for the manufacturing process. places that process meat have USDA inspectors there everyday, not just sometimes but everyday. If Jesus came to visit and if he did not want any meat, we would definitely have a FISH dinner and maybe a little wine.

And you are under the assumption that the meat you by is from animals that are not abused, yet you say you simply do not know if the animals that provided that meat are abused or not, in spite of quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. That fact that you say you do not know implies that you have taken no measures to determine the fact of the matter in terms of your sources. If that is the case, how can you be sure that the USDA, a questionable resource in and of itself, is there everyday ensuring decent animals treatment.

Even if they are enforcing regulations regarding humane animal treatment, the laws regarding the treatment of farm animals allow laundry lists of treatment that would be considered criminal and cruel if applied to non-farm animals or humans.

To say that you are 100% not responsible for a practice that you fund is akin to the drug dealer saying they are not responsible for the results of their drug trade. If one purshases product, one, at the very least, tolerates and accepts the methods and behaviors employed to provide the product. To argue the contrary is to abandon logic and reasoning.


Finally, I did not say that Jesus never ate animals. The story of the "miracle of the five loaves and two fish" also known as "The feeding of the 5000" is infamous. What I DID say, yet another question, is to simply ask how Jesus might view the continued and regular practice of treating animals with cruelty, causing them pain and suffering from birth until passing needlessly? Once again, I leave it you to answer that question directly.

Even if animals were provided specifically for us to eat, I do not believe that they were ever meant to suffer as they do on factory farms and I certainly don't believe that God intended such suffer to occur in any of his creation.
 
Dolphin safe tuna!

Definitely hypocritical concept. Other countries, most notably in parts of Japan, have no problem eating dolphin and do so simply as part of their tradition. This, in spite of the fact that even officials in the town most famous for dolphin eating have recognized the massive mercury levels found in dolphins regularly that obvioulsy pose a huge health risk of the humans eating the dolphin meat. Get this - the mercury content of dolphin meat does turn off people to eating it...so it's very often sold as whale meat, illegally, of course. Just another fine example of the meat industry lookin' out for the consumer. This is not really an issue here in the US, but the reason it exists is the same: financial profit.

Oh, and many, perhaps most Americans are outraged by the horrid practice of the annual dolphin hunt that occurs in Taiji, Japan, yet those same Americans purvey support far more pain and suffering on the cows, chickens and pigs here in our own factory farms, mostly b/c they are unaware of the realities.

Just another example of why I believe that most of us, meat eaters included, would not support factory farming if we were fully aware of what the industry does to the animals.
 
ive had to do work in a kill plant b4. i watched a cow get shot in the head, jump up and get out of the pen. then it ran around like crazy for a while till it died. i wish i had never seen it. but i guess it happens alot. the rest of it wasnt anything like the video. it was a small plant Mcpherson, ks. thier meats are really yummy.

i very much so dissagree with the cruelty that was displayed, but what are you supposed to do? i damn sure know im not giving up my meat, milk or eggs.

we are a carnivorous being by design.

That's exactly the issues...things like that happen everyday all over the country.

Just like, most of us disagree with the cruelty, even if we still choose to eat meat. While eating any animal requires it to be killed and therefore cannot be completely humane, there are alternatives to supporting scenarios like the one you described if you still choose to eat meat.

Small and/or Family farms. They're out there. You won't find their products in the regular stores. Their prices may be similar or higher compared to what you're used. Bottom line, if you really disagree with the cruelt, you simply must look for the less cruel choices. Hit the web and look for cruelty free choices in your area or that will ship to you.

Of course, the most cruelty free choice will be to not eat animals, but if you must, there are alternatives out there, you just have to look for them.

Oh, and for the record, we are NOT carnivorous...we are OMNIvorous and that just means we can eat meat and plants. I contend that we do not have to eat either. I know vegans and I also know people that virtually eat zero vegetables and fruit, the live off of meat and junk food.
 

Direct quote from the comment section of that article


"Hmmm...wonder what she was really eating. I've been vegan for mostly 30 years and it has kept me from the diseases that have destroyed my family.
Breast cancer, both sisters, mom & aunt. I'm the only female without.
Heart disease: one sister, both parents, grandparents
Diabetes: one sister, both parents, grandparents
At 57, I run 5K races and place in my age group and look and feel better than ever. I coach a high school track team because I can run faster than most of them.

Any diet can be unhealthy, especially if you don't eat enough vitamin and antioxidant rich food. Research and looking at world populations show that where people can't afford our rich diet, they don't have our diseases."
 



Your post is excellent! However, I question anything that comes from the Examiner or similar publications.

That said, I would debate some of your points.

First, I am no expert. Heck, I'm don't consider myself an expert on anything, even stuff that I've been doing/into/learning my entire life. I believe there is ALWAYS the potential for learning in all things.

That said, I do all the research I can and I try to evaluate the content and the source critically and objectively.

As with ANY DIET, there are obviously issues with a vegan diet that need to be considered and I do try to convey that, perhaps not well enough if I haven't made that clear.

WRT to the vegan diet being a disaster and that supplements are recommended, well, that's really not any different than any other diet today. In any grocery store pickep up 10 different products and probably 50% of them will be enriched with some added vitamin or mineral. Talk to any doctor and they will probably recommend taking a regular multi-vitamin and possibly add'l specific supplements.


You mentioned specifically:

Vitamin B12: The most commonly cited issue with a vegan diet. However, animals gain B12 by eating...B12. This can be done by eating other animals OR by eating B12 found in plants. Of course, in our modern world, most of us rely on simple multi-vitamins and there are B12 specific supplements on the store shelves for those that need them.

Iodine: Natural sources of iodine include sea life, such as kelp and certain seafood, as well as plants grown on iodine-rich soil. (From the wikipedia article). Obviously, seafood has it's own issues given the mercury problems.

Choline: Can be found in a diverse array of plant foods.

Iron: Although more bio-available in meat, iron is found in many comman plant foods. Once again, while it can be an issue on the vegan diet, it can so be an issue in any diet that is not well balanced, especially if one is not monitoring one's health. I've known several anemics...and they were ALL meat eaters.

Calcium: Once again, while dairy is a good source there are lots of good plant sources as well. In addition, the medical industry recommends calcium supplementation on a regular basis to all people, not just non-meat eaters.

Vitamin D: This one is a legitimate challenge as a vegan. My recent physical after only 3 months on the vegan diet showed a deficiency. Solution: Supplementation and more sun (I have avoided the sun as much as possible for 20 years, since I got out of the lifeguarding business). Realize that, once again, this issue is not a non-meat eater only matter. Many people, meat eaters included, are deficient in vitamin D.

Yes, doctors are not wrong in the fact that ANY diet can be dangerous be they inclusive of meat or not. There are also many doctors that endorse the vegan diet.

Bottom line: Any diet CAN be dangerous. The vegan diet is no more dangerous that any other IF one takes responsibility for one's own health.
 
i meant omnivores. the wrong word just came to mind when i wrote that. i eat a balanced diet of both. i love my fruits and veggies, but im not giving up my meat.

im fortunate that i live in the middle of ks and small meat shops are abundant. no problems finding food that is from sources other than wally world. some of these small places actually offer cheaper prices if you buy in bulk...like say a half or quarter side of beef.

that video is horrible and i would believe it to be a production from hours and hours of footage put together much like a hollywood movie. yes its real, but when and where were the video's taken. are they even from the USA?

your unfortunately going to find horrible things happening at any moment in the world. hell ppl are killing, raping, and stealing. humans are the same as they were 100's of years ago, difference is there are cameras everywhere you look today and it can be spread all across the world in seconds via the web. definately not saying any of it is right, but me not eating meat isnt gonna change the world we live in.
 
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