From neutral to first gear

[rubbersidedown]

Mine will do what I think your explaining, basically first doesn't drop right in from neutral but if u start slowly releasing the clutch it'll engage. Just always assume it to be that first isn't quite lined up and once u start releasing the clutch it let's the gears line up and drop in. Rode quite a few bikes that have done this and never had any issues.

Owners have been beeching about Busa tranny's since 1999. "It misses,1st > 2nd...5th > 6th." Clutch basket retaining nut backs out.Clutch spring bolts back out. Of the "Big 4" Suzuki gets the worst rating as far as transmissions go,for many models. When my motor was torn down and re-built with zero miles on it,every gear was "race-cut" for this,I am thankful. Bolt "issue" addressed as well.

what the engineers found out in several tests here in germany was,
that the "Chinazzo" levers like to brake lot of times.
NOT FUNNY i guess - espacially at the front brake.

so i strongly recommend only to use per-tested parts (levers) from american or european companies.

if our german police stops a motorcycle and find such "Chinazzo" (brake and/or clutch) levers at the motorcycle,
then she asks the owner to unscrew the levers and then the police confiscates these two levers.
how the owner then gets his motorcycle back home is his problem - at least he can't drive a yard / meter.

there is a nice documentation movie in the (german) internet about this happening - the biker was definitely "not amused" - you could see that clearly.
but in this case i'm glad that the police took a close look and acted accordingly.
such crap is a huge danger for everyone - for the user and for everyone else too .

german companies are probably the most safest because they have to get officially checked the levers and have to apply for a official test certificate of our german federal office.
this certificate i numbered and this number you find on the lever(s) (starts with KBA plus ####)
(haye a look for Lucas, TRW, ProBrake, metal gear, and so on)

the damn china snot ´n crap doesn't even come to my garage.

the smallest danger is to have to buy it twice, the biggest is to loose your life
or does someone really use the chinese brake discs or pads?

I would agree to some extent Mr. Berlin.
Testing: If its like testing a drive chain for "Tensile Strength" ,pull on it till it breaks,all levers will eventually.However the force necessary to actuate a clutch rod from the slave and a brake caliper in today's modern hydraulic systems is minuscule.
German Police: My guess is some crashes have been attributed to failing levers. Some might cry "conspiracy" and that they are doing it for reasons like trying to rid foreign products from German shelves...I doubt this.
Confiscation of parts: Just a tad over the top,IMO. How about a warning and grace period to repair/replace the item. Where ever the biker made it to with "sub-standard" parts,before being pulled over,surely he could make it back home with said parts.I have been given a 7 Day "Grace Period" here in Canada many times.
Hopefully German bikers are warning one another via social media of this policy.
If German police pulled me over,I'm sure they would just pour petrol on my ride and set it on fire on the spot. My bike is "dangerous" is so many ways. Levers/fat tire/extended arm/spike bolts,bar ends/blacked out tail n' brake lights/deaf'ning exhaust/550 HP/etc etc.

@Berlin Germany I would trust American or European manufactured parts more than Chinese copies but a lever is so basic I would almost not even call it mechanical. If it fits properly installing it, there should be no problem using it. If a lever requires pressing in the pushpin to install, it almost definitely will have the brake and/or clutch applied all the time. I don't know about Europe but a lot of American stuff is really made in China. It's not that the Chinese can't make good stuff, it's just that there's not as much to loose if they don't.

The Chinese have been trying to take over the world in many ways for years...and succeeding. It won't stop any time soon. I make references to Walmart,Costco etc all the time. Some of us,like me,continue to shop there buying sometimes lesser quality goods. Sometimes these goods are just as good as others,but can be made much cheaper due to the lack of labor laws,cheap packaging/shipping etc. Remember when Japanese cars came to N.America...the up roar..."Buy American" well some held fast,others didn't. Personal choice. Same with these levers and all the other parts.A combo of what you think and what Mr. Berlin thinks is best in my mind,pick and choose carefully.You eluded to the fact (in another thread) that sometimes when parts are copied by "other than Japanese or American manufacturers" they can be slightly better in one form or another. I believe that.
It's not just the Chinese either...there is a ton of manufacturing coming in from all over Asia...if my beloved Canada made the products I need,at affordable prices....DAMN STRAIGHT I would buy from here.
That my friends, is just not today's reality.
Rubb.

 

[Berlin Germany]

@Berlin Germany I would trust American or European manufactured parts more than Chinese copies but a lever is so basic I would almost not even call it mechanical. (...)

i hope for you that your brake lever never will break in full use
what the some years ago in germany tested pieces did.

i saw that broken chinese levers in the internet. so very unfunny - damn.

let me say it this way - where my life may depend on i never would try to save money by grabbing the cheap crap from china and not the certified from my homeland.

 

[Berlin Germany]

rubb?
grin
some of your so called "dangerous" parts you can get legalized here in germany too,
if the manufacturer get a certificate for the piece.
for instance : even a 10" streched arm is available incl. the certificate - i have it at a street legal gen1 turbo with 300 hp at 0,8 bar and the long arm in my garage .

others, like your sharp ending screws, are forbidden by law because they may hurt a person when touch him
here they go to the motorcycle with a magnifying glass every second year when you have to get the certifying test .

and your deafening exhaust - wait some 3-5 years i guess / prophesy and the gov. will stop this kind of freedom like the emission of co etc. in california
the witch hunt is already running in many countries.

i give an example :
the capital city of france, paris, never more alows to enter town with bikes with a first registration before January 2004 without any special rights for old already registrated legal vehicles e.g. an indian from 1947 or so
totaly stupid but any more questions?
and this stupidity will grab the whole world - i prophesy .

 

[rubbersidedown]

i hope for you that your brake lever never will break in full use
what the some years ago in germany tested pieces did.

i saw that broken chinese levers in the internet. so very unfunny - damn.

let me say it this way - where my life may depend on i never would try to save money by grabbing the cheap crap from china and not the certified from my homeland.

You have strong feelings on this debate and your concern for your Busa-Brothers is duly noted. VERY COOL.

rubb?
grin
some of your so called "dangerous" parts you can get legalized here in germany too,
if the manufacturer get a certificate for the piece.
for instance : even a 10" streched arm is available incl. the certificate - i have it at a street legal gen1 turbo with 300 hp at 0,8 bar and the long arm in my garage .

others, like your sharp ending screws, are forbidden by law because they may hurt a person when touch him
here they go to the motorcycle with a magnifying glass every second year when you have to get the certifying test .

and your deafening exhaust - wait some 3-5 years i guess / prophesy and the gov. will stop this kind of freedom like the emission of co etc. in california
the witch hunt is already running in many countries.

i give an example :
the capital city of france, paris, never more alows to enter town with bikes with a first registration before January 2004 without any special rights for old already registrated legal vehicles e.g. an indian from 1947 or so
totaly stupid but any more questions?
and this stupidity will grab the whole world - i prophesy .

My bike is a rolling death trap...ahhh...but it looks cool.

Its all blood and skulz,spikes and red n' black devil shi7...I wouldn't change a thing.

If you and anybody else wants to "put this topic to bed" once and for all I'm game.
I'll volunteer the time...set up my mad scientist laboratory.
Just need some levers to work with. Perhaps some members have one lever from a set that got broken (crash,God forbid) or some stockers they want to donate to the cause...I've got that kind of free time.
Need some stock OEM levers,some Chinazzo's,some others.The more,the better.

My idea: Test strength by way of hydraulic press. I would place each lever on the press with a jig of my design and measure the force necessary to break it.
Quality: I'll cut them in half and attempt to determine build quality (perhaps air bubbles/fractures/foreign material/etc in the casting)
Heck...melting point,quality of springs,bearings at perch mounts and pin cam points.
Perhaps a little wager Mr. Berlin...

I'll put up these...VS yer stocker OEM's

They are a "carbon copy" of OEM stockers.
"Carbon" you see that fella's ? See how I did that... "Carbon"

That's funny right? @Mythos am I right?

Speaking of at Mythos,I'll volunteer him as technical advisor.
He's a university professor...well,sort of.
No he's a damb good mad scientist...IE: "The Speedo Question"

So...Mr.Berlin...you in.

I'll put up a bottle of this fine product...

You can put up a bottle of that German krap we use for cough syrup...
Actually...you should probably give me odds...say...4:1

4:1 see how I did that. man,I am on a roll this morning.

Kiddin...straight across would be just fine.
You game ?

Mythos...whadda ya say...

OK...he's in.

The ball is in your court Mr.Berlin.
Rubb.

 

[GIXERHP]

I think they are cheap offbrand levers that came with the bike

View attachment 1624320

If you look the lever is Not installed correctly, there is a hole in the brass insert form the old lever. The way it is there is to much pressure and will not allow the clutch to bleed back into the reservoir. you should not see as much of the silver pin sticking out.

 

[rubbersidedown]

If you look the lever is Not installed correctly, there is a hole in the brass insert form the old lever. The way it is there is to much pressure and will not allow the clutch to bleed back into the reservoir. you should not see as much of the silver pin sticking out.

View attachment 1624415

OOPS....

Nice catch....
Rubb.

 

[Mythos]

Testing: If its like testing a drive chain for "Tensile Strength" ,pull on it till it breaks,all levers will eventually.However the force necessary to actuate a clutch rod from the slave and a brake caliper in today's modern hydraulic systems is minuscule.

Confiscation of parts: Just a tad over the top,IMO. How about a warning and grace period to repair/replace the item. Where ever the biker made it to with "sub-standard" parts,before being pulled over,surely he could make it back home with said parts.I have been given a 7 Day "Grace Period" here in Canada many times.



The Chinese have been trying to take over the world in many ways for years...and succeeding. It won't stop any time soon. I make references to Walmart,Costco etc all the time. Some of us,like me,continue to shop there buying sometimes lesser quality goods. Sometimes these goods are just as good as others,but can be made much cheaper due to the lack of labor laws,cheap packaging/shipping etc. Remember when Japanese cars came to N.America...the up roar..."Buy American" well some held fast,others didn't. Personal choice. Same with these levers and all the other parts.A combo of what you think and what Mr. Berlin thinks is best in my mind,pick and choose carefully.You eluded to the fact (in another thread) that sometimes when parts are copied by "other than Japanese or American manufacturers" they can be slightly better in one form or another. I believe that.
It's not just the Chinese either...there is a ton of manufacturing coming in from all over Asia...if my beloved Canada made the products I need,at affordable prices....DAMN STRAIGHT I would buy from here.
That my friends, is just not today's reality.
Rubb.

On German police confiscating parts, I sort of get the idea the Germans are big on discipline and authority. Tough cookies.

On Asia taking over the world, I think most countries would like to at least economically. I would buy American everything if it could be produced as inexpensively as Asian stuff. Obviously it can't and that's why most of our stuff is at least manufactured if not also assembled in Asia. It would be a complete economic 180 for us to to make most of our own stuff and pay for it accordingly. Seriously, you couldn't afford to eat at McDonalds more than once a month. You'd be riding a bicycle. We would go back very much to egrarian, I believe. Funny thing, there's plenty of room for egrarian, nobody wants to live here.

i hope for you that your brake lever never will break in full use
what the some years ago in germany tested pieces did.

i saw that broken chinese levers in the internet. so very unfunny - damn.

let me say it this way - where my life may depend on i never would try to save money by grabbing the cheap crap from china and not the certified from my homeland.

I don't use the Chinazzos I bought because their color was not good. Not terrible, but just not good. I use genuine Pazzos on both my bikes.

My idea: Test strength by way of hydraulic press. I would place each lever on the press with a jig of my design and measure the force necessary to break it.

The stress test with hydraulic press you mentioned was pretty much what another member did several years back. He tested a Chinese lever and a used OEM. He did not test an expensive aftermarket lever. His assessment was that particular Chinese lever was good quality. All Asian levers might not be as high in quality as the one he tested.

That's funny right? @Mythos am I right?

right.

Speaking of at Mythos,I'll volunteer him as technical advisor.

accepted. you don't know what you're messing with. see, I just agreed with you twice.

 

[rubbersidedown]

accepted. you don't know what you're messing with. see, I just agreed with you twice.

well if yer gonna agree all the time then forget it.
Rubb.

 

[2013hayabusabehre91]

If you look the lever is Not installed correctly, there is a hole in the brass insert form the old lever. The way it is there is to much pressure and will not allow the clutch to bleed back into the reservoir. you should not see as much of the silver pin sticking out.

View attachment 1624415

Really? But it has a really tight tolerance I barely have to squeeze it to shift.

 

[BigBSBusa]

Really? But it has a really tight tolerance I barely have to squeeze it to shift.

Agree with @GIXERHP, that pin is showing too much to be fully in that hole in the dowel. I would definitely check.

 

[GIXERHP]

Really? But it has a really tight tolerance I barely have to squeeze it to shift.

If you barely touch it,
that proves what im saying,
But please check it

 

[Mythos]

If you look the lever is Not installed correctly, there is a hole in the brass insert form the old lever. The way it is there is to much pressure and will not allow the clutch to bleed back into the reservoir. you should not see as much of the silver pin sticking out.

View attachment 1624415

Here's mine. Genuine Pazzo. Doesn't look a whole lot different than yours if you ask me. ??

Mine is installed properly, I verified it's in the hole. I guess it would be possible the pin would catch on the edge of the black aluminum if it did not go in the hole. Look closely with a flashlight and pull the lever to the grip. If the brass disk remains in constant alignment to the pin and the axis of the master cylinder, it's in the hole. You should see the black ring turn but the brass disk only moves in and out without turning---the black aluminum part turns around the brass disk.

The ball on the end of my Pazzo shorty travels about a half inch before I really start to feel the pressure in the MC. If you don't even have that much play, it's possible your pushpin isn't in the hole. Have a look with a flashlight. It's also possible the Asian levers have a shallower hole so you see more of the pushpin. This would also take up part of that freeplay and I don't know if that would be considered an improvement or if it would be a possible risk. It's hard to say without measuring but looks like the part that goes in your perch is a bit longer than mine for increased leverage. They might have made other tweaks as well.

If you don't have freeplay, I'd suggest taking the lever off and reinstalling it. Was it necessary to push the pushpin in to get that lever on? If so, it might be applying some preload to the clutch lever all the time. It's hard to give precise guidance because these things are a bit of a pain to install while putting the pivot pin through the perch. You might feel it's necessary to push the pushpin in in order to het the piot holes to line up. Been a while since I installed mine. Obviously it's about time I took the off and cleaned and lubed them.

Really? But it has a really tight tolerance I barely have to squeeze it to shift.

I'm finding you don't really need to pull the clutch much or even at all as long as you at least back off the throttle a little as you shift.

If you don't have freeplay, I'd suggest taking the lever off and reinstalling it. Was it necessary to push the pushpin in to get that lever on? If so, it might be applying some preload to the clutch lever all the time. That's up to you to decide. It's hard to give precise guidance because these things are a bit of a pain to install while putting the pivot pin through the perch even with OEM levers. You might feel it's necessary to push the pushpin in in order to get the pivot holes to line up. Been a while since I installed mine. Obviously it's about time I took the off and cleaned and lubed them.

One surefire test is go out on a straight road and do WOT from at least 4000 rpm. 3rd, 2nd, 1st if you can. If you hear the clutch slip, that's probably the pushpin preloaded too much. Your clutch cannot fully engage. The clutch slip will sound like your wheel spun. The rpm will zip up. If the clutch holds, I believe that lever is just fine.

 

[Mythos]

This might help. The key is, "how hard is that pushpin pressed into the MC when you install?" I don't know for certain if you have to press it in but I do know if it's pressed in a bit too much, your clutch is not under full spring pressure with the lever released.

Do the WOT test, inspect closely. If all feels good and looks good, I'm sure it's working as it should.

Levers Removal | Maintenance and Do-It-Yourself

Clutch and Front Brake Levers Removal The front brake lever and clutch levers are usually only removed to replace them. Short aftermarket levers might stand less of a chance of breaking in a fall. I saw recently where short levers also may decrease the chance of certain finger injuries in...

www.hayabusa.org

 

[BigBSBusa]

Here's mine. Genuine Pazzo. Doesn't look a whole lot different than yours if you ask me. ??
View attachment 1624437

View attachment 1624438
Mine is installed properly, I verified it's in the hole. I guess it would be possible the pin would catch on the edge of the black aluminum if it did not go in the hole. Look closely with a flashlight and pull the lever to the grip. If the brass disk remains in constant alignment to the pin and the axis of the master cylinder, it's in the hole. You should see the black ring turn but the brass disk only moves in and out without turning---the black aluminum part turns around the brass disk.

The ball on the end of my Pazzo shorty travels about a half inch before I really start to feel the pressure in the MC. If you don't even have that much play, it's possible your pushpin isn't in the hole. Have a look with a flashlight. It's also possible the Asian levers have a shallower hole so you see more of the pushpin. This would also take up part of that freeplay and I don't know if that would be considered an improvement or if it would be a possible risk. It's hard to say without measuring but looks like the part that goes in your perch is a bit longer than mine for increased leverage. They might have made other tweaks as well.

If you don't have freeplay, I'd suggest taking the lever off and reinstalling it. Was it necessary to push the pushpin in to get that lever on? If so, it might be applying some preload to the clutch lever all the time. It's hard to give precise guidance because these things are a bit of a pain to install while putting the pivot pin through the perch. You might feel it's necessary to push the pushpin in in order to het the piot holes to line up. Been a while since I installed mine. Obviously it's about time I took the off and cleaned and lubed them.




I'm finding you don't really need to pull the clutch much or even at all as long as you at least back off the throttle a little as you shift.

If you don't have freeplay, I'd suggest taking the lever off and reinstalling it. Was it necessary to push the pushpin in to get that lever on? If so, it might be applying some preload to the clutch lever all the time. That's up to you to decide. It's hard to give precise guidance because these things are a bit of a pain to install while putting the pivot pin through the perch even with OEM levers. You might feel it's necessary to push the pushpin in in order to get the pivot holes to line up. Been a while since I installed mine. Obviously it's about time I took the off and cleaned and lubed them.

One surefire test is go out on a straight road and do WOT from at least 4000 rpm. 3rd, 2nd, 1st if you can. If you hear the clutch slip, that's probably the pushpin preloaded too much. Your clutch cannot fully engage. The clutch slip will sound like your wheel spun. The rpm will zip up. If the clutch holds, I believe that lever is just fine.

Disagree with the difference in pics. Partly because of the angle, but also by my eye the pushpin seems shorter. As you say, though, if it is just sitting on the edge of the dowel it will still move in and actuate the clutch. Simply check to verify.

 

[GIXERHP]

Disagree with the difference in pics. Partly because of the angle, but also by my eye the pushpin seems shorter. As you say, though, if it is just sitting on the edge of the dowel it will still move in and actuate the clutch. Simply check to verify.

Thank You Ken,,,Chazzo's verses Pazzo's ill give this argument , better to check than not

 

[Mythos]

Disagree with the difference in pics. Partly because of the angle, but also by my eye the pushpin seems shorter. As you say, though, if it is just sitting on the edge of the dowel it will still move in and actuate the clutch. Simply check to verify.

The Chinazzos I bought had the hole in the bushing drilled with a pointed tip drill. Pazzo uses a flat tip drill. The cone shaped bottom of the hole on the Chinazzos won't allow the pushpin to rest at the bottom of the hole. Heard of a guy who just put the lever on a drill press and went a tiny bit deeper. The lever I have looks perfectly perpendicular to a drill press if you just lay the ver on the table. Order yourself a flat tip drill bit. Be careful. I think those suckers grab pretty easily. Low speed drill just a little at a time.