Employee rights...is this even legal?

VaBusa

oRg Gal
Staff member
Administrator
So, after Sandy skirted our area, the county I work in held a meeting to go over what needs to be improved, what worked, etc...

Out of this meeting came this gem of an idea, and I really want to know if this is even legal to do to your employees. ALL EMPLOYEES will be on call during future emergency events and may be called in to fill whatever role is deemed necessary, and if they do not, they'll be written up for insubordination. Now, mind you, most of the employees don't work in the emergency-related departments and upon hire for their respective current jobs, no where did it state we must comply with something like this during an emergency event such as a hurricane. How can something like this be covered under the usual "And other duties as assigned" when it can be hazardous?? Whenever bad weather's heading my way, I get ready, I'm at home safe with my kids, and work is the last thing on my mind.

I know certain key depts know this type of "on-call-for emergencies" goes with the job they agreed to do, just as I know with my own job, I may be called in if a server crashes or we have a database go south, but that's very different from being told you must show up and do whatever-they-deem-is-needed during an emergency event. All I can think of are all of the potential lawsuits if an employee is hurt en route, or what if we're told we have to man a call center, we give out incorrect info and someone dies?? What about those that have loved ones to care for and they can't do this? They'll be written up?? I am floored that after working for this county for 15 years, out of the clear blue sky I'm being told I will now "volunteer during an emergency". I did not sign up for this type of a role, and neither did most of the staff I know...

"Other duties as assigned" usually falls under what is expected in your regular work week; didn't realize they could force you to volunteer and call it that, but perhaps I'm wrong... :banghead:

Thoughts??
 
Salaried or hourly. union- non union, state of emergency or not? I would say yeah they can make you under certain circumstances, if public employee the gov has a lot to say about that.
 
I'm at home safe with my kids, and work is the last thing on my mind.


Thoughts??

I saw where the firemen were out fighting fires (their actual job) while their own homes burnt down. If it were not my actual job to protect others in the disaster I would be at home protecting what I love most, my family.
 
It sounds shady to me, but I'm not a lawyer. I suggest you contact the VA Dept of Labor. They will be happy to answer your questions, and more happy to talk to your employer if they are violating state labor laws.
 
I'm not an employment lawyer, and states laws may vary, but, generally, I think workers are either under contract (typically high-level, white-collar types), or "at will" employees. Generally speaking, I believe the law used to be that "at will" employees could be terminated for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. Having said that, if you're covered by a union agreement you may have certain rights, and you may be covered by federal and state wage and employment laws that may limit the hours or require certain pay for excess hours. Best to find an employment attorney in your area who might give you some advice and direction. I asked a friend who said that an employer is permitted to make those demands and the employee can't refuse unless they're in "imminent danger"--at least that's what they believe the standard is (probably in PA). So, again, best bet is to speak to an employment attorney.
 
I think they can do pretty much anything they want to. With so many people out of work companies do not have much loyalty to employes anymore. It would be hard to get up and go do a job that you have no training for but to me if they are doing this and are willing to enforce it, Maybe it's a way to get rid of someone they just don't want anymore. Now days with all the law suites I am sure they know if they are with in their rights by doing this. JMO
 
It sounds getting written up for insubordination for not showing up for something you are not trained for. A good employment lawyer will make sure you never have to work again. Now if you are some type of law enforcement there are laws that work against you. Mainly this is to stop the "Blue Flu." But to be fair those laws came about when some coal workers stopped working and people were freezing in the middle of winter.

If it is a public safety concern they have a lot of leeway. For example if you are I.T. personal and you are needed to help get some communication infrastructure going they have a case. If you are I.T. and they tell you to grab a chain saw and start clearing the roads of fallen trees they are in the wrong.

Short answer long, it is a question of weather or not it falls withing your "Scope of Duty."

My job they can order me into work. Also when they tell you emergency travel only it doesn't apply to me or some of the key employes at my department. I don't mind driving in 3 1/2 feet of snow but it is a pain when you have to do the slalom around all the other cars stuck in the snow.
 
Its worth a chat with the labor board or a labor attorney to nail it down. Perhaps you can just ask the boss what exactly it means for you in your job role. If he says you are gonna be coming in cleaning port-a-potties or power line repairs, you might ask for that in writing. I guess if you dont like the answers its time to develop a plan b and if it comes down to it run with plan b. Lots of DBA jobs out there as remote work these days :thumbsup:
 
I think they can do pretty much anything they want to. With so many people out of work companies do not have much loyalty to employes anymore. It would be hard to get up and go do a job that you have no training for but to me if they are doing this and are willing to enforce it, Maybe it's a way to get rid of someone they just don't want anymore. Now days with all the law suites I am sure they know if they are with in their rights by doing this. JMO
This is so true I work for walmart they say we have to come in even if its a snow storm what if we cant make it they say at least you have a job.
 
now....for those of us that are NOT union...remember all the negative thoughts you have about this post...then remember WHY unions were created, and WHY they are trying to get rid of them...both corporations and government...because they WANT to do this to you and unions STOP THEM.
 
I'm not an employment lawyer, and states laws may vary, but, generally, I think workers are either under contract (typically high-level, white-collar types), or "at will" employees. Generally speaking, I believe the law used to be that "at will" employees could be terminated for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all. Having said that, if you're covered by a union agreement you may have certain rights, and you may be covered by federal and state wage and employment laws that may limit the hours or require certain pay for excess hours. Best to find an employment attorney in your area who might give you some advice and direction. I asked a friend who said that an employer is permitted to make those demands and the employee can't refuse unless they're in "imminent danger"--at least that's what they believe the standard is (probably in PA). So, again, best bet is to speak to an employment attorney.

[Deleted reference.]
 
I think they can do that and are supported legally. Workers without contracts are totally unprotected from the whims of the employer in Va. On the other hand it would be stupid to put un-trained people in harms way as that is a sure lawsuit. You are responsible for getting to work safely, no matter what the conditions. If there is a storm and you come to a flooded road, it's your responsibility to determine that crossing the road is unsafe - not the employer.

Bottom line is that it is unlikely you will be put in a crazy position as this is a huge liability issue for the company. So I would let them flex their "we own your azz" muscles and just ignore them. If there is a storm and you are called in, then you can decide whether or not it's time to find new employment. I don't think your company wants to see you on the news saying "I was afraid of the storm and I had my kids and no one to watch them".

I really think they were just trying to get the word out to certain people who might actually be critical in a storm. We have designated people with backups who are essentially on call in the event of a storm and some of us must report to our positions or the backup systems crash. So we have agreed to tend to our duties no matter what or pass them to the backup people in the event we cannot perform the task.
 
now....for those of us that are NOT union...remember all the negative thoughts you have about this post...then remember WHY unions were created, and WHY they are trying to get rid of them...both corporations and government...because they WANT to do this to you and unions STOP THEM.

The flip side of that is they are wiling to put a struggling business under rather than give consessions of things they demanded when the comapny was doing good.

The Irvine, Texas-based Hostess Brands released the following statement: “We know the concessions are tough, but it would make more sense for unhappy employees to simply leave the company voluntarily than to strike and cause the company to close down, forcing everyone to lose their jobs.â€￾

Hostess Closing Three Plants After Bakers Strike | FOX2now.com
Labor Fight Could Kill Off Twinkies, Wonder Bread | FOX2now.com
 
If you are a government employee and you don't show up for work , will anyone really notice?

People would certainly notice if I or some of my counterparts did not show up for work.

During an emergency situation it would almost be a hindrance to have people working in areas they are not suited/trained for. For example, you can have anyone hand out bottles of water to people that require it, but you would not want them searching homes for survivors.

Your question probably comes down to county or state laws governing what the company can dictate during an emergency.
 
Thanks for the insight...many here are just floored that this is even an idea. We have entire departments hired and trained to do this type of work, and even have a pool of volunteers to work during these types of events, fully trained and willing to be a part. Those volunteers are all citizens in this county, and I happen to live in another county as do many of my coworkers. What happens if we have already signed up to volunteer in our OWN localities? Not their problem, you will be written up. This is all in the beginning phases, so I'm curious to see if our Board of Supervisors will nix it quickly for all the reasons presented. As far as I can tell, if a gov't employee in VA deems something hazardous to their well-being, they need to inform their supervisor. As far as I'm concerned, asking everyone from the secretaries to the network guys to show up and fill sand bags or man a call center during a storm is just that, hazardous. People are told to stay home, off the streets, etc during such events for a reason...those that don't end up taxing the emergency response teams because they opted to hit the road when they shouldn't.

I realize the chance of this becoming a routine thing is minimal; storms like this don't come along often, but I'm just aggravated that we have so many trained to do these things and now, instead of asking employees "Who would like to volunteer?" we're being told "You will or you'll be written up" just doesn't sit right with many here. So many single moms & dads, those caring for their elderly parents or a spouse in a wheel chair...you can't expect to trample on the rights of a person that took an IT job or cleans offices and tell 'em "Get over here and help man the call centers, heck with your family".

I have the utmost respect for those that do sign up for emergency related jobs, but at the end of the day, they have the training to do this type of work and they know when they accept the job that it goes with the territory. Pretty sure once this hits all employees, lawyers will be contacted. We're already using resources we have to find out what rights, if any, we have...this administration is unreal...the stories I could tell :banghead:
 
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I understand your point 100%, although the entire time I was reading it I was thinking "force shaping". This is a term that the military is familiar with, but you would better recognize it as downsizing or doing more with less. Perhaps this is the beginning of people being let go from their emergency response positions such as FEMA. You have to pay for the entitlement programs that the Obama administration is bringing down the pipe and this may be a sign of things to come.

Perhaps the government is going to force shape the civilian sector in emergency management and ask the other government employees to step in their positions if needed. Your "assigned" duty as call center rep would be a very low risk task. I do understand your concerns though that if you are at a call center, you cannot be at your other obligations.

This is all speculation and my insight into what you have told us, others may have another idea.
 
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