Ecu editor question

[Dopey]

Have a question for anyone that's familiar with ecu editor. I finally got my buddy with his 2019 busa to get his ecu flashed and instead of sending it out to schnitz i talked him into just taking it to a known shop close by. Well there was some confusion on what we wanted done so I ended up on the phone with the shop and clarified that I wanted the top speed limiter removed, o2 disabled, pair disabled, fan temp changed, and timing optimized. I couldn't remember exactly what frank did to mine when I got it flashed from him but that was the main thing. Now I'm curious if the timing being optimized,the secondary throttle, or the fuel cut that most include in their flash is something hard to do because I'm really feeling like I'm gonna end up having to cover some money on him sending it to someone else because from what was written on the ecu i don't see anything about the timing adjusted of fuel cut or secondary throttle plates adjusted. I also had another buddy send his ecu off his 2015 gsxr 750 and the shop said that because I asked for basically the same thing as the busa plus I wanted the servo disabled originally that he couldn't really do anything to it and that it would be best to send it somewhere like schnitz who uses woolich instead of ecu editor because the 750's are different which i thought was odd as I figured it would be the same as what I've seen in videos and pics of editor being used and just a matter of going in and clicking a few boxes in the program. From what I know of the shop he's got a good rep and one of our long time members even has some dealings with him so I'm hoping that maybe he just didn't list that he did the timing on the ecu and when I go up there Monday they can confirm everything I asked for was done. If not then I'll come out of my own pocket to get out done properly. So if anyone can give me some insight as to how ecu editor works I appreciate it.

 

[fallenarch]

Well for me I would only use a known expert for something like an ECU flash. First, it's hard to know what they did, and I doubt the gurus are going to tell you everything they do. Second, I would want to not question the ECU every time the bike has an oops.

 

[Dopey]

Well for me I would only use a known expert for something like an ECU flash. First, it's hard to know what they did, and I doubt the gurus are going to tell you everything they do. Second, I would want to not question the ECU every time the bike has an oops.

Well the person I used is known, a member here had his busa built by the guy and another member who is really well known that I don't want to tie to this also recommend this person as a possibility when I was asking them about somewhere to get my bike dynoed. As far knowing what they did I don't expect to know their secrets but my ecu has a sticker from frank at powerhouse that started exactly what changes he made like "fan temp, timing optimized/ time retard gears 1-4, rev limit raised, top speed limit removed etc. And most all the shops I've seen do this which is why it bothers me they just took a sharpie and wrote on the ecu and that it doesn't have the main thing I was concerned with (timing) written on there. I'm hoping they did it but it'll be Monday before I can find out for sure and if they didn't hopefully he'll fix it or I'll be sending his ecu to frank at my cost because I feel responsible for it.

 

[Dopey]

Also I know I rambled on quite a bit in the first post so maybe what I'm asking might not be clear since I'm not even really sure so I'll try and clear it up a little with some of what I'm wondering. 1. Has anyone used editor for anything besides a busa (maybe something setup like a 2015 gixxer 750)? 2. If so was it any harder to do anything like optimize the secondaries, or the timing? 3. Is the timing retard that's corrected with a "basic" flash as normal a thing to do in a flash like @POWERHOUSE made it sound? 4. Something i didn't ask earlier but if you had your ecu flashed what all did they change?

 

[fallenarch]

Mine is not professionally flashed actually. A guy named Tim (earlybird) and I connected it to the harness and raised the rev limit to 11K, removed the limiter, turned off the PAIR. Never sent it to @Boosted Cycle Perf because I wanted to decide on engine configuration first (cams, displacement?). Still deciding what I want to do with it, lol!

 

[Dennis]

Also I know I rambled on quite a bit in the first post so maybe what I'm asking might not be clear since I'm not even really sure so I'll try and clear it up a little with some of what I'm wondering. 1. Has anyone used editor for anything besides a busa (maybe something setup like a 2015 gixxer 750)? 2. If so was it any harder to do anything like optimize the secondaries, or the timing? 3. Is the timing retard that's corrected with a "basic" flash as normal a thing to do in a flash like @POWERHOUSE made it sound? 4. Something i didn't ask earlier but if you had your ecu flashed what all did they change?

I can't help you on the Gixxer 750 but I can tell you on the Busa with EE if you click on the "Edit Ignition Map(s)" button it will by default unify all gears and modes using Group 1 ignition map. I assume this is what most places are doing on ignition. I know some people feel adding a couple degrees at upper rpms and full throttle is beneficial, but I can't say. Editing Limiters lets you remove the top speed limit in 6th gear.

Maybe more important is the STP map (secondary throttle plate). The stock tune has gears 2 and 3 with less opening up to 8k rpms. It is typical to apply the 4th gear map to gears 2 and 3.

Other typical things to change would be, as you mentioned, O2 sensor, fan temp, and fueling for an exhaust but that is really just a guess if you don't datalog actual AFR for the bike. I've done that plenty of times but I'm not saying it is the best.

I suggest loading EE on your computer and play with it. You should be able to get the map that was loaded and look at it compared to a stock map to see what was done.

 

[Tenderfoot]

4. Something i didn't ask earlier but if you had your ecu flashed what all did they change?

This is basically what @ChrisMooreMafia did to mine. I also let him know what mods if any I have so that he could match the fueling.

 

[Dopey]

I can't help you on the Gixxer 750 but I can tell you on the Busa with EE if you click on the "Edit Ignition Map(s)" button it will by default unify all gears and modes using Group 1 ignition map. I assume this is what most places are doing on ignition. I know some people feel adding a couple degrees at upper rpms and full throttle is beneficial, but I can't say. Editing Limiters lets you remove the top speed limit in 6th gear.

Maybe more important is the STP map (secondary throttle plate). The stock tune has gears 2 and 3 with less opening up to 8k rpms. It is typical to apply the 4th gear map to gears 2 and 3.

Other typical things to change would be, as you mentioned, O2 sensor, fan temp, and fueling for an exhaust but that is really just a guess if you don't datalog actual AFR for the bike. I've done that plenty of times but I'm not saying it is the best.

I suggest loading EE on your computer and play with it. You should be able to get the map that was loaded and look at it compared to a stock map to see what was done.

Thank you sir that's pretty much what I was needing to know. The 2 things I stressed on the phone to him was the timing (which u just showed me is as simple and clicking the button like I thought,I wasn't sure but I thought i remembered it being posted that they just copy the same ign. map from gear 5&6 for 1-4) and the secondaries and those are the 2 things that are not written on the ecu. I've really wanted to get the stuff from @smithabusa and learn to do the basic flashes but I thought it would be more universal thru models with the bench flash plug so i could do a few and make some of the money back but most the people I ride with have Gixxers and it looks like you need different connectors to flash them and I think I only seen the hookups for the gixxer 1000 on Greg's website but I'm not sure on that. Again thank you

 

[Dopey]

This is basically what @ChrisMooreMafia did to mine. I also let him know what mods if any I have so that he could match the fueling.

I know Chris uses woolich which is different then editor, but I know the bike i had flashed had a power commander so I didn't want the fueling touched so after seeing that video might make sense that he didn't touch the secondaries since Chris says you need to adjust fueling after doing so. This definitely helps i just wanna make sure I'm even more educated when I go in there Monday to see what was done for sure. My main issue is that if he charged 125 just to lower the fan temp, turn off the o2 and pair, bump the rev limiter 500, and remove the top speed limiter then that's definitely not what I was under the impression was getting done. But I'm really hoping he did and I'm just addressing for nothing. I know one of our members had nothing but great things to say about the tuner and I've done some research and threw his name out to just about all the riders i come across so I don't wanna come out looking like an @zz.

 

[Mythos]

Well for me I would only use a known expert for something like an ECU flash. First, it's hard to know what they did, and I doubt the gurus are going to tell you everything they do.

@Dopey, if your main objective is to optimize timing, that is the numero uno thing the gurus are NOT going to tell as was openly stated in the Moore video posted above. I'm not super well educated on all intricacies of tuning but it seems a lot of things like secondary flies or fan temp and even AFR have a pretty decent margin of error. Timing is one where the safe zone is very small. I also suspect timing has even more to do with enhanced power than AFR does on a naturally aspirated bike. From my perspective, an AFR table and a timing map would be the most closely guarded secrets of a tuner. The average owner with average equipment used to be able to see the maps with just an ordinary laptop but not so anymore unless you have access to the software.

One solution might be to lock the ECU into one gear map where there are no timing restrictions. With that problem solved, new problems could arise on certain bikes. For example, I've recently learned the first gear low rpm fuel mapping on the busa is determined by MAP rather than AFR. If you lock into 6th gear mapping, you mess up the fueling for 1st gear. There appears to be a way around that problem with ECU Editor too but then who knows if something else wouldn't be thrown off kilter?

I know we're talking about a GSXR 750 here and not the busa but I'm just suggesting potential problems.

 

[Dopey]

@Dopey, if your main objective is to optimize timing, that is the numero uno thing the gurus are NOT going to tell as was openly stated in the Moore video posted above. I'm not super well educated on all intricacies of tuning but it seems a lot of things like secondary flies or fan temp and even AFR have a pretty decent margin of error. Timing is one where the safe zone is very small. I also suspect timing has even more to do with enhanced power than AFR does on a naturally aspirated bike. From my perspective, an AFR table and a timing map would be the most closely guarded secrets of a tuner. The average owner with average equipment used to be able to see the maps with just an ordinary laptop but not so anymore unless you have access to the software.

One solution might be to lock the ECU into one gear map where there are no timing restrictions. With that problem solved, new problems could arise on certain bikes. For example, I've recently learned the first gear low rpm fuel mapping on the busa is determined by MAP rather than AFR. If you lock into 6th gear mapping, you mess up the fueling for 1st gear. There appears to be a way around that problem with ECU Editor too but then who knows if something else wouldn't be thrown off kilter?

I know we're talking about a GSXR 750 here and not the busa but I'm just suggesting potential problems.

Actually it was the busa that got flashed, he wouldn't flash the 750 because he said it needed to be done with woolich software and he uses ecu editor

 

[HayaWakened]

@Dopey FYI Powerhouse basic flash on my 14 Gen 2

 

[Dopey]

@Dopey FYI Powerhouse basic flash on my 14 Gen 2
View attachment 1632961

Thank you that keeps me from having pull mine out to read it . Only difference is I kept my o2 sensor in cause I still had the stock exhaust on at the time.

 

[macka]

I can't help you on the Gixxer 750 but I can tell you on the Busa with EE if you click on the "Edit Ignition Map(s)" button it will by default unify all gears and modes using Group 1 ignition map. I assume this is what most places are doing on ignition. I know some people feel adding a couple degrees at upper rpms and full throttle is beneficial, but I can't say. Editing Limiters lets you remove the top speed limit in 6th gear.

Maybe more important is the STP map (secondary throttle plate). The stock tune has gears 2 and 3 with less opening up to 8k rpms. It is typical to apply the 4th gear map to gears 2 and 3.

Other typical things to change would be, as you mentioned, O2 sensor, fan temp, and fueling for an exhaust but that is really just a guess if you don't datalog actual AFR for the bike. I've done that plenty of times but I'm not saying it is the best.

I suggest loading EE on your computer and play with it. You should be able to get the map that was loaded and look at it compared to a stock map to see what was done.

So I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth buying the hardware from boost by smith so I can do the changes myself question? How noticeable is the acceleration difference up to 6k

 

[Dennis]

So I'm just trying to figure out if it's worth buying the hardware from boost by smith so I can do the changes myself question? How noticeable is the acceleration difference up to 6k

When I did it the first time on my street/strip bike I couldn't feel the difference, but others will tell you it is very noticeable. I didn't generally have the clutch out and throttle open at less than 6k to make a fair assessment, but can tell you on the drag strip it wasn't measurable for me.

 

[macka]

When I did it the first time on my street/strip bike I couldn't feel the difference, but others will tell you it is very noticeable. I didn't generally have the clutch out and throttle open at less than 6k to make a fair assessment, but can tell you on the drag strip it wasn't measurable for me.

yeah the ignition retard removal would be noticeable for me on the street, so you had the stp map altered that would require a tuner to modifiy the afr something i cant do as there is no info out there on that specifically, if you are drag racing what gearing are you running?

 

[Dennis]

yeah the ignition retard removal would be noticeable for me on the street, so you had the stp map altered that would require a tuner to modifiy the afr something i cant do as there is no info out there on that specifically, if you are drag racing what gearing are you running?

I run unified fuel map and tune AFR with the Woolich data. I'm running 18/46 gear on motor and 18/44 on nitrous, but every combination likes something different.