Dry Shot on the '08 (pertaining to '08/09's only please, less confusion)





Dr151

Registered
#1
I'm currently working on installing an MPS dry shot on my '08. I'm looking for some help/suggestions on how to do it right. I do have some experiance with this, I installed a NX wet shot on my '00 750. I have been on other threads looking for answers, but I still have a few questions.

  1. Plugs - Iridium or standard (also gapping)?
  2. Different fuel when spraying?
  3. Timing retard? yes, no or how much?
  4. Mounting / Plumbing - I would like to see some pics of what other people have done.
  5. MPS kit came with an engine kill, how do I tie this into my engine kill that is connected to my electric shifter?

Here are the performance goodies that are already installed:
  • Alien Head Full Exhaust
  • PC3 w/ Brock street map
  • Brock clutch mod
  • Pingel electric shift w/ engine kill
  • Stretched & lowered

If I need to clarify anything, please ask. Also, I want to keep this very steetable. Thanks in advance for any ideas or suggestions.:please:

DSC01339.jpg
 

Dr151

Registered
#3
I was planning to spray a 60hp shot. Gixx1300R, I would like to contact you a little more directly sometime if possible. I have some side questions that may get a little drawn out for this thread.
 

Dr151

Registered
#5
I have it stretched and lowered and when at the track I'll have the front strapped down. Is 60 really going to be a problem? My 750 gixer had a 60 shot on it and I never had a problem. Yes I know, not as many cc's / horses, will 60 be that radical? Either way, I'm going for it, I want HP.
 

ogre

Call me Liberace!
Registered
#7
i know there was a cat that hit his piped and tuned busa with a 50, and was pulling wheel at 150
 
#8
I have been running a dry shot on my 08 for 2 seasons on the racetrack. Assuming this is for dragracing (?) I can offer the following thoughts.

1) A 60 shot is a lot for the GenII motor. You will need valve springs and SS valves to keep from spitting valve shims and keepers. Its not a matter of if; its when. And if you are going to give the motor a lot of service (ie brackets every weekend), a set of forged and polished pistons and good rods are in order.

2) For a 60 shot, You will need to pull somewere between 2 and 5 degrees of timing depending on fuel, and your options for doing that are limited. Petrik / Smithabusa have reflashing for the ECU available, but the timing retard is still under development. The power commander III requires addition of the hub and the ignition module. The PCV is also a mess to do this. There are other ignition modules available, but they cost some bucks.

3) The next thing you will need is a way to control the 60 shot. With a 20 shot, you could get away with having it come on in first. With a 30 shot, you could have it switch on in second with a first gear lock out (offered by Smithabusa and others). With anything more than a 30 shot you really need a progressive controller to ramp the juice in at the rate than the chassis can take. If you just arm your 60 shot to a handlbar button, you would have to wait till third gear, and that won't help your ET at all.

4) You will need to switch maps between the motor map and the spray map. With a wet system you don't need to do this, but a dry system requires map switching. By summers end, Petrik should have the map switching working with ECU flashing, but its not ready yet. Right now your options are limited. If you have a power commander, you can switch the lower (smaller) injectors, but the smaller injectors start to max out at around a 40 shot. You can run a second power commander to run the upper injectors ($$) or you can control the upper injectors and let your streetability below 8k RPM be crap. For now, your options are limited over a 40 shot.

5) I would recomend that you remove the soft limiter on the ECU. The soft limiter is diabolical. It starts to kick in around 11,1k or 11,2k, and it works by pulling just a little bit of fuel. You don't hear it. You just see the A/F start to change. The hard limiter kills ignition, but doesn't kick in until 11,3, but by then its too late. You have been running the motor WAY lean. Again, get the Smithabusa reflasher and get rid of the soft limiter for any nitrous application. I built my own, but it was a pain to fabricate.

6) Finally, I would recomend that you control bottle pressure. My personal opinion is that bottle heaters SUCK. They should be called battery killers. They also only control between 900 psi and 1100 psi. I know they all claim to control better than that, but I have never seen it. Also, on a hot august day with the motor radiating heat like crazy, its pretty hard to keep the bottle under 1100. The second problem to solve is that a 60 shot is big enough that the pressure in the bottle drops like a stone after the first 3 seconds. I log bottle pressure (among other things) and can show this effect. The result is that you are running to lean in the lower gears, and too rich at the higher gears. I would recomend using a N2O pressure regulator. Several folks make them. I bought mine from Cold Fusion, and it just plain works. I tune everything for 600 psi and forget about it. This past Saturday night, the temperature dropped to 65F, and nobody else had bottle pressure, but I had a bottle in a handmade blanket with the regulator, and it ran perfectly.

This is kind of long winded, but if I can talk you into a 40 shot (versus the 60 shot) I could recomend a specific setup that will safely work.
 

Dr151

Registered
#9
???Draco, now you got me thinkin'. Ok, I can hold back and do a 40 shot instead. I don't want to destroy the motor and with the economy (work) not being the greatest, I can't spend to much more on this project (the BOSS, she will not like). You had mentioned a progressive controller. I have one that I was going to use with my wet kit but never did, still new.

As for the track, I would like to get more time on the track, but realisticly, the bike will be for street use most of the time.

I'm going to need a little time to digest all this usefull info. If I don't reply back for a bit, don't think that I am finished here.
 
#13
As for the track, I would like to get more time on the track, but realisticly, the bike will be for street use most of the time.
QUOTE]
If the spray is for the street, discount what I was suggesting for controllers and soft limiters. On the track, you whant everything as smooth as possible. Smooth and slow is fast and repeatable. I don't actually feel the spray kick in, and thats what allows the chassis to work.

For the street, you may actually whant to feel the kick in the ass, and high revs are not necessary. :laugh: I'm not a big fan of spray bars because in general the hit can be harder, but you may look into a spray bar system (multiple posts on this topic) if your objective is to do the Mad Max thing. I can post up some pictures later on.

You still need to worry about timing, fuel enrichment, bottle pressure, and cylinder head limitations.
 
#14
Are extensions more dangerous? Risk of breaking?
Yes they are more dangerous, and if they are low quality, or the hardware is low quality, or if they are not locktited and torqued down corrrectly, and if they are not checked on a regular basis, you may die.

But I have run them:thumbsup:
 
#16
I run a 40 shot dry on my 08 with heavy duty valve springs and SS valves on the exhaust side. I have burned the exhaust valves up on one cylinder but was more my fault than anything. Make sure you get a good tune on it and keep it out the rev limit. I would suggest if your not going to beef up the valve train then keep the shot small around 30. You don't need a 60 shot on the 08. You can always get more with less in this case.
 

Dr151

Registered
#17
I had bought the Spyder kit from MPS and already started mounting it. I didn't start wiring yet, that's when I started questioning things and started this thread.

Thanks for the incite on the bolt on extentions, that's is good to know. They seem pretty solid though.

Why the pray?
  • I want to see "nice" hp on the dyno.
  • The extra wow factor as I pull away from my buddies is cool.
  • Extra help in the 1/4 mile, as seldom as it may be.
  • Maxton someday would be great, 200mph (with proof) is my reachable goal in life.

Bottom line though:
I just want to have fun. :guitar:

DSC02005.JPG
 
#18
draco1340,
hey,i saw your post on a 30 shot and are very interested.i have 08 busa,power commander usb,full r77 yosh pipe and a tre mod.i was wondering if you could give some anvise on custom map for n2o dry.any help you give would be greatly appreciated.
boom.
 
#19
Here is a photo of the Bottle setup I run on the 08. This is a race vehicle, not a show bike, so no bling here. Rubber everywere:whistle:. I run a 2# or 2.5# bottle in a blanket with a regulator set at 500psi. This controls the nitrous pressure precisely regardless of temperature. To compensate for the lower pressure I run larger jets. Two 28 jets at 1/2 pressure will run about the same as one 28 jet at 1000 psi (about 30 hp), but this way the system never needs to be heated or purged down. The voltage regulator is shaved and mounted below the bottle for cooling and simplicity, and to keep the weight low and forward. After the first pass of the day, I look at my logger, and I can bump the pressure regulator up or down to compensate for more air or less. The nitrous map is tuned for 12.3 :1 AF at 1500" density altitude, so if the air density drops to 2500" (about 12.1:1), I can give the regulator a quarter turn per 1000 feet and keep the A/F at 12.3. Actually quite simple, and in this way the bike runs the same regarless of weather.





EDIT: seem to be having problems with immages today. May have to repost tonight. Sorry...
 

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