Does ABS give ABS a bad name?

fallenarch

THE SLOW RIDER
Registered
I had a Suzuki Bandit with ABS and it absolutely sucked. Grab the lever and you could feel the bike pulsing the stoppers. It went from brakes to no brakes, brakes to no brakes. Needless to say this was only good for the least skilled among us. Try to trail brake with that goofy arrangement! Anyway, I have since realized that ABS is much more complicated than simply not letting the wheel stop turning while the bike is still moving. Great ABS is for the most part unnoticeable. It would catch the catastrophic rider misjudgments and otherwise leave things alone. That however, is a very complicated thing to do.

For example, stopping the front wheel from turning when you are going 2 mph is much different than stopping it when you are going 40 mph. Also, a sliding front wheel is not the end of the world when the bike is at 0 lean angle. At a 60 degree lean, even the slightest slowing of the front wheel could cause the bike to dump you. So good ABS requires the bike can monitor the speed the wheels are turning, the speed the bike is moving, the direction the bike is moving (including in the vertical direction), the lean angle, the amount/direction of G's the bike is experiencing, throttle position, and of course lever input. Then somehow the bike takes all this information and calculates what to do with the brakes.

If that sounds complicated, it is. But what it means is that ABS needs all the other electronics (IMU, ride-by-wire, etc.) working in a system to not get in your way. I think ABS got a bad name because people were riding bikes that could only look at the speed the wheels were turning and so they were just not smart enough to brake for you (or should I say as well as you can yourself). But with all of the sensors, ABS becomes magic.

These advanced ABS systems can work amazingly well. They are easy to get perfect stops out of without a lot of focus and training and best of all there aren't too many artifacts from the automatic brake controls to make you feel like the brakes are doing anything but stopping. I was a manual braking loyalist myself until I experienced the brakes on my BMW. These brakes will stop the 750 lbs monster on a dime with zero drama. In a turn leaning over, low speed or high speed they are natural feeling, powerful and confidence inspiring.

My point with all of this is that the Gen 3 Busa is DOA without modern electronics. That's going to turn a lot of Busa fans off but give it a chance. Bike electronics have come a long way.
 
Suppose Val is
image.jpeg
using his brakes?
 
I had a Suzuki Bandit with ABS and it absolutely sucked. Grab the lever and you could feel the bike pulsing the stoppers. It went from brakes to no brakes, brakes to no brakes. Needless to say this was only good for the least skilled among us. Try to trail brake with that goofy arrangement! Anyway, I have since realized that ABS is much more complicated than simply not letting the wheel stop turning while the bike is still moving. Great ABS is for the most part unnoticeable. It would catch the catastrophic rider misjudgments and otherwise leave things alone. That however, is a very complicated thing to do.

For example, stopping the front wheel from turning when you are going 2 mph is much different than stopping it when you are going 40 mph. Also, a sliding front wheel is not the end of the world when the bike is at 0 lean angle. At a 60 degree lean, even the slightest slowing of the front wheel could cause the bike to dump you. So good ABS requires the bike can monitor the speed the wheels are turning, the speed the bike is moving, the direction the bike is moving (including in the vertical direction), the lean angle, the amount/direction of G's the bike is experiencing, throttle position, and of course lever input. Then somehow the bike takes all this information and calculates what to do with the brakes.

If that sounds complicated, it is. But what it means is that ABS needs all the other electronics (IMU, ride-by-wire, etc.) working in a system to not get in your way. I think ABS got a bad name because people were riding bikes that could only look at the speed the wheels were turning and so they were just not smart enough to brake for you (or should I say as well as you can yourself). But with all of the sensors, ABS becomes magic.

These advanced ABS systems can work amazingly well. They are easy to get perfect stops out of without a lot of focus and training and best of all there aren't too many artifacts from the automatic brake controls to make you feel like the brakes are doing anything but stopping. I was a manual braking loyalist myself until I experienced the brakes on my BMW. These brakes will stop the 750 lbs monster on a dime with zero drama. In a turn leaning over, low speed or high speed they are natural feeling, powerful and confidence inspiring.

My point with all of this is that the Gen 3 Busa is DOA without modern electronics. That's going to turn a lot of Busa fans off but give it a chance. Bike electronics have come a long way.
I had the 2013 yellow/black , I did find the AND slow to re adjust , did pulse prematurely, but the later 2015/16 it was refind , Kinda like when the GSXR1000 had a recall out on the AND pump earlier
 
Electronics are different for racing. For example racers use the rear brake to swing the tail around or to level the bike. Not sure how the ABS would understand that move. Also when you see a guy heading into a turn with the front at max braking and the rear of the bike airborne, that would be a bad time for the ABS to let off the brake power! Dragsters will never want launch control unless it's pro grade, not nanny gear.
 
that bike is 10 x more electronic than anything you can buy. 60 degrees was a joke people. lost your sense of irony have you?

Well, I didn't lose my sense of humor.:p My first experience with ABS was in a 91 Caddy. It only pulsed when...activated.:laugh: Subsequent cars, my newest and current car, an 06, have excellent ABS and traction control. I've never experienced ABS on a bike but with such tiny (tire) contact patches they're sure to be safer for most riders especially in the wet. I don't much like the idea of linked brakes though. I'd like to decide when the rear brake is used and how much pressure to apply.
 
Most automatic braking systems these days use linked brakes when you pull the lever and only rear when you use only the foot control. This works amazingly and allows the rider to pick what they want to control. I was told in rider training that about 30% of your braking power is in the rear brakes but most don't use it. That's a lot of braking if you can recover even a portion of it. I'm pretty sure linked brakes are of minimal use to a track or advanced street rider, as the back wheel probably isn't even on the ground when braking hard. But to us mortals, you probably are riding around with much better brakes than you think.

Linked brakes got a bad name with some early implementations that were both dumb and mechanical. Now these braking systems are used to balance the bike, reduce dive, and keep the bike stable under hard braking. It does work, especially on touring bikes where you don't use the rear brake to aim the bike.
 
Can't most any bike lift the rear during braking given traction and speed? I was saying that 30% is in the rear and 70% is in the front. So if you don't use the rear, then your max braking is 70% of what is available. Is that not correct?
Sounds correct to me....
 
I had a KTM 990 Adventure with ABS brakes, first ABS bike I’d ridden.
I rode a lot of gravel roads up in the mountains and farming back blocks and the brakes were nice (Brembo of course!)
One day I thought “what will it be like with no ABS?”, so I switched off the ABS..... big mistake!
I approached a 90 degree corner on a gravel road with a drop off bank at the apex of the corner at around 70kmh, slowly applied brakes and engine braking as I have on that same corner many times before, and the wheels locked up which I was NOT expecting.
I went into a slide on the gravel, my line changed, and my speed had not reduced to where I wanted it to be.. at all.
I managed to get the turn completed with out dropping it and sliding over the bank to a 100ft drop.
After I stopped and caught my breath, I switched the ABS back on and NEVER switched it off again!
Yeah, I like the benefits of ABS on loose traction surfaces for sure
Never needed ABS on the tarmac though, I guess 45 years of riding skills have shown me how to brake successfully and smoothly....
But that doesn’t take into account the odd emergency braking scenario such as a vehicle does something stupid in front of you.
I haven’t had that panic braking thing happen in a loooooong time thank God!
 
Can't most any bike lift the rear during braking given traction and speed? I was saying that 30% is in the rear and 70% is in the front. So if you don't use the rear, then your max braking is 70% of what is available. Is that not correct?
If on a bike that can lift the rear tire under hard braking the rear tire is still in contact with the ground enough to provide stopping power the front brake is being under utilized.

If the rear if off the ground then all of the bikes weight is on the front and that is maximum deceleration.


. On a sport bike or a bike that has the ability to lift the rear wheel during a hard stop I only use the front brake with the clutch in and down shifting at the same time.

A wise ships steward who survived the sinking of a passenger ferry once told me you can only practice for an emergency, you can’t practice an emergency.

In a emergency braking situation if one has practiced to use the rear brake so much weight can be transferred to front that the rear locks with very little pressure. In an emergency the adrenaline kicks in and the rear brake is over applied. It is difficult to modulate the rear to prevent lockup. Often when the rear locks the rider reduces pressure on the front brake lever as well greatly increasing stopping distance.

When the rear is locked during an emergency stop all directional control is lost preventing the rider from steering if the object moves. Any gyroscopic stability from the rotation of the rear wheel is also lost. Also if the rear is locked and the rear of the bike is sideways this could lead to a low side if the rear brake is not released, or if the rear brake if released a possible high side.

Attempting to modulate the rear brake while simultaneously achieving maximum front brake performance while correctly down shifting is almost a cognitive overload when full of adrenaline.

On a bike that has a large rearward weight bias i would use the rear brake.

cheers
ken
 
Back
Top