do you have days where you want…Part 2, if I may…

GoFaster

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do you have days where you want…Part 2, if I may…

when you contemplate selling your Busa?  

Not meaning to jump in on Smoke_Dog’s original post, although this is quite a bit different.

I’ll try to keep my question and story brief, but may be difficult.

My wife
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 just treated me to an incredible birthday gift of a five day stay in Carmel, California.  We live in Las Vegas, Nevada.   It was wonderful.
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  We went there back in 2005 for the return of the MotoGP at Laguna Seca; absolutely awesome!!!

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So we’re heading west from Bakersfield to Paso Robles on Hwy 46 (from 99 to the Pacific Coast Hwy).  We’re about two miles East (heading West) out of a brutally small town named ‘Wasco’.  It is a completely agricultural area and very beautiful.  You can see for miles and miles in every, and I mean every, direction.
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Two California Highway Patrol cars heading East (opposite direction of us) are cruising by.  It’s 12:05pm, just looking at the time that the California HPO just wrote on my ticket.  Actually, he put 12:05am, but it was 12:05pm; any legalities in my benefit here? Nonetheless, one of the CHP does a U-turn and snags me in a rented car for doing 71mph in a 55mph zone (the CHP put ‘70 in a 55 mph zone). I’m sure it was an easy kill; out of state license plate, just left lunch with his CHP buddy (remember 12:05pm and two miles from the nearest town).  

I have the highest regard for police authority.  Honestly, I do. I ride motorcycles with two Federal Law Officers.

The Highway patrol officer was very polite and professional to me.  And I was to him, also.  I thought of all of my fellow Hayabusa riders when this was going down.  I sincerely thought that he’d return to our rented car after doing my license check and whatever else at his Patrol Car, and hopefully he’d let me off with a warning.  I had explained, with an apology, that I wasn’t used to the smoothness of this vehicle (rented) and thought, by viewing the speedo on and off, that I was going 60mph (the speed  had probably fluctuated in all honesty, I mean, I do have to watch the road, right?).  Seeing that it was a day before my birthday and having no prior speeding record (I sincerely don’t know if he knows this) that a simple warning may suffice. Nope
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; easy out of state kill after lunch with his buddy, with all due respect.

I have a friend who got a reckless driving ticket a few years ago out in Nevada.  It was for 120mph in a 75mph zone.  It was from Pahrump, Nevada to Las Vegas, Nevada.  Have you ever seen Pahrump to Las Vegas?  You could be doing 160mph on a Hayabusa and feel like you’re not moving.  You can see 100 miles in front of you, behind you, to your left and to your right (okay, slight exaggeration, and yes, slight).  I don’t say this to justify his speed, but it was an 8 point count against his license; at 12 points you lose you driver’s license.  8 points is the same as a DUI.  So a guy driving on the Las Vegas Strip drunk while there are hundreds and hundreds of people around, gets the same penalty as someone on motorcycle in the middle of nowhere?  
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 Check the speed laws in Oregon.  Money?  Pure money?  

There was a prior post about the education and driver’s license procedure in Europe.  I have a friend in Switzerland.  He was once talking about how in parts of Europe, if my memory serves me right, how once you get a Motorcycle license you can only drive a 125cc, or such, motorcycle for the first year or two, then up to 250ccs for the next year or two, etc., working your way up to a liter bike or more over a period of time.  In the US, you can get a motorcycle permit at the age of fifteen and a half and hop on a 0-60 in 2.7 second, 200 mph motorcycle.  One has to ask, is our government (by the way, God Bless America and please hang your flags this Labor Day and always, I repeat always, on Veteran‘s Day) truly trying to educate us or make money off of us.  

I was driving with the wife the other day and saw a car weaving in and out of the left hand car lane in traffic.  I said jokingly to the wife, ’how much you want to bet it’s a teenage girl on a cell phone?’  I’m no fortune teller with ability to see the unseen, but I was right.  I’m not a chauvinist either.  It just one of those things that we know may be the situation.  These are the incompetents that we have to be group in with.

Whether it is a person who has ridden motorcycles for over thirty years and is very skilled or someone who is incapable of driving over 40mph while trying to look at the radio, we’re all susceptible to the same lowest common denominator.   And we pay!  Monetarily (tickets) and through the lack of ability of other drivers (hitting us).

I say ‘hitting us’, because when I originally went to get motorcycle insurance for my Hayabusa, I had rates quoted to me from $8400 to $2700 (a year, full coverage, $700 to$225 a month).  I was told that this was due to the high incident of thief with motorcycles, not motorcyclist causing accidents.  I asked for the quote on ‘just liability’ insurance.  $20-30 a month.  What does that say?  We are not the causes of accidents to others in regards to severe accidents, we‘re the victims of severe accidents, due to others, as a general rule.  Why else would a monthly rate go from $225 a month to $25 a month?  Think about it.

My point:  Why do why all have to pay for the lack of ability and pointless speed limits that appeal to the lowest common denominator?  A several ton 18 wheeler cannot stop in the same amount of time as a 500 pound Hayabusa at 55mph.  

When I set my cruise control at 58mph in the rented car after getting my ticket in California, every car was up my arshe for the next 60 miles.  I was more concerned with people trying to speed past me against on-coming traffic while I was doing the 55mph speed limit.  

As a motorcyclist, I never stay in the same speed arena as cars; they simply don’t focus on you as you sit in the same spot, hopefully not a blind spot.

Getting tickets for nonsense is what makes me question selling my Hayabusa.  Getting ticketed for 30mph over the speed limit while there is nothing around me for miles and miles, and come on now, we’ve all done it, scares me.  8 points and $500 dollars a more a year for insurance for 20mph over the speed limit and now I’m 4 points away from losing my license?  
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By the way, did you know that insurance companies buy quite a bit of those speed guns that the Highway Patrol use?  For our safety, or to drive our rates up?  
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Sorry for the length of the rant, but I could go on for another 10 pages easily.

God Bless and ride safe, but enjoyably!
 
Bro,
I feel for you and can identify with you in your example. Unfortunately, it is obvious that law enforcement practices more capitalism than safety enforcement. We all suffer. Sure there are going to be those clowns that say you should have been driving at the speed limit and you broke the law but who doesn't. Being from California I know exactly how you feel when everybody around you is doing 70-80 in a 65 and you know that it is a matter of time before the Five-0 snags someone.
The best thing I could say is to invest in a Valentine One radar detector and use it constantly. If Law enforcement looks to enforce laws with an imprudent hidden agenda then we should be able to evade enforcement in an imprudent manner.
 
(GoFaster @ Sep. 03 2007,02:46) Getting tickets for nonsense is what makes me question selling my Hayabusa.  Getting ticketed for 30mph over the speed limit while there is nothing around me for miles and miles, and come on now, we’ve all done it, scares me.  8 points and $500 dollars a more a year for insurance for 20mph over the speed limit and now I’m 4 points away from losing my license?  
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This is a worry for me too... In NC, if you get points the insurance company jacks your insurance up (I forget the scale) for three years!
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First time I got a ticket, I didn't know better and paid it. My insurance jumped 33% (for my cars) for three years!! Ouch! I complained to my insurance company and they lamely said "It's the law, there's nothing we can do".

Uh-huh. And just who lobbied to get that law on the books??
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I have thought about selling the busa and I'm considering it now before I get that ticket which I know is out there.... but for now, it's let's ride!!
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(Projekt @ Sep. 03 2007,06:12) Bro,
I feel for you and can identify with you in your example. Unfortunately, it is obvious that law enforcement practices more capitalism than safety enforcement. We all suffer. Sure there are going to be those clowns that say you should have been driving at the speed limit and you broke the law but who doesn't. Being from California I know exactly how you feel when everybody around you is doing 70-80 in a 65 and you know that it is a matter of time before the Five-0 snags someone.
The best thing I could say is to invest in a Valentine One radar detector and use it constantly. If Law enforcement looks to enforce laws with an imprudent hidden agenda then we should be able to evade enforcement in an imprudent manner.
I'm originally from Cali, too! I still consider myself a Californian in many ways.

Good advice about the detector!

Thanks for listening on the long rant!
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(Projekt @ Sep. 03 2007,06:12) Bro,
I feel for you and can identify with you in your example. Unfortunately, it is obvious that law enforcement practices more capitalism than safety enforcement. We all suffer. Sure there are going to be those clowns that say you should have been driving at the speed limit and you broke the law but who doesn't. Being from California I know exactly how you feel when everybody around you is doing 70-80 in a 65 and you know that it is a matter of time before the Five-0 snags someone.
The best thing I could say is to invest in a Valentine One radar detector and use it constantly. If Law enforcement looks to enforce laws with an imprudent hidden agenda then we should be able to evade enforcement in an imprudent manner.

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 Amen!


Fight fire with fire.  
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when i purchased my first busa in 01 i was shocked at the insurance rates for this bike, lowest rate i found was 2700 for full coverage. i settled on 1000 per year for theft and comprehensive only with progressive. the agent told me the crazy rates were due to the fact that 1 out of 5 sport bikes are wrecked or stolen. low and behold two years later my busa was stolen and would only pay off retail for that year bike so i had to purchase a used busa of the same year. in 2004 i got the zx-10r and it was even more to insure than the busa, could not handle the insurance on two sport bikes anymore so i sold the busa last year. i have had three theft attempts of my 10r already and i am begining to wonder if it is worth it anymore to own a sport bike when you are always on edge if your bike is going to be around when you wake up in the morning. i have had my 97 vmax since 2002, insurance is 300 a year for full coverage and i can leave it parked outside and not have to worry about my bike being ripped off all the time.
 
Have you considered fighting the ticket? If you can disprove that he used proper enforcement procedures, you may be able to get it dismissed. This very similar thing happened to me in the Fla Keys. There is a post here somewhere about it. I actually drove back to the Keys to fight the ticket and was able to succesfully prove he could not have measured my speed to be accurate.

The point of fighting and winning. It (hopefully) tells the courts to look a little more interestingly into the practices of the Lone Rangers out there.

If you fight, you go to the fight well armed and fully prepared. As soon as you level the playing field, the cop folds up his tent pretty quickly.

Fight and prepare to win but realize you may also lose and the price will be steeper.

As to your AM vs PM argument....the courts aren't being nearly as picky about those type things.

A better argument would be, if there was no other traffic around you and it as wide open as you describe, what point of reference did the cop use to visually determine your speed, before engaging his radar to verify that visual measurment? This is 90% of the reason the cops lose, they are plain and out getting lazy in their jobs. The radar goes off they pull you over and write the ticket, ho hum easy money. They are trained by the book and they make sure they train by the book. Then you get into the wink wink nudeg nudge system of...screw the book set the gun and when it goes off write the ticket, cuz these things are great and are never wrong.....WRONG mentality but more of the real practice.

The reality is they have a human job to do before they depend on that piece of equipment to concur with thier trained human method. They ignore that part of the job about 90% of the time. Heck that takes effort and diligence and actual math and discipline....heck that ain't no fun and they don't want to do that.
 
Sometimes I feel like I'm an antelope in a big herd on the savannah, with the Lions watching and waiting to pounce on some random one of us. What I'm saying is that we get picked on. It's because of the squids. Some of us are squids buut all of us ride bikes that make us look like squids.
If I were a cop I'd pick on sport bikes too. But that would amount to not cutting a guy a break if he were being a squid. If I were a cop I'd be ok with the little 10-15 over stuff. I wish we could get a badge or sticker we could stick on our bikes that showed our driving records. Then you'd know who was a squid and who was just going too fast for a short time.
 
In the US, you can get a motorcycle permit at the age of fifteen and a half and hop on a 0-60 in 2.7 second, 200 mph motorcycle.[/Quote]

Incorrect, at least it is where I am from.  In Texas you can get your liscence at 16, and you are limited to no more than 500cc's.  So I am not sure if that is the case or not in other states.

As far as typos on a ticket... it depends on the typo.  Some can get you off (wrong VIN being a good example), but it's up to the judge to determine the intent of the ticket.

If you go online and read about fighting tickets, it can be a very simple (yet time consuming) process.  The trick is to waste time while building your case.  Personally, I will never go to court for a ticket again.  Deferring court dates is simple, and unless you feel that you don't have a case, you can actually do the whole thing by mail.

Here is some good information on how to "fight" your ticket (granted it's Canadian, but it's still pretty good about giving you an idea of your rights).

Fight a Ticket FAQ
and
Disclosure and your Rights to Information

The thing to remember here is that you are still innocent until proven guilty.  You did nothing wrong in the eyes of the court, whether you actually did it or not.  Personally, I will never enter a plea of "guilty" or "no contest" on a traffic violation again, simply based on the fact that at the most basic level... you can waste so much of the courts time that in the end they will let you go just to get you out of the way.  Plea-bargains are an option if you show that you have a case, and most of the time, you will just pay the fine, and not have points placed on your license (a VERY) good thing.  In fact, in most of those cases you will not even have a record of the violation.

As a final note, just like most information, your opportunity to defend yourself allows you time to research and prepare a defense.  Most of the people on the internet are interested in selling you something that will make them money (nothing wrong with that in my opinion), but the reality is that if money is an object, then your local library and a few hours of effort between the internet and the library will provide you with a good idea of what you can and cannot do.

*Disclaimer* I am not a lawyer (hopefully that is clear).  My advice makes no claim to be the best or right way to deal with the situation.  Any defence or plea that you make is not my responsibility.  Basically, this information has the equivalent value of the paper that it is printed on.
 
(TallTom @ Sep. 04 2007,07:35) Have you considered fighting the ticket?  If you can disprove that he used proper enforcement procedures, you may be able to get it dismissed.  This very similar thing happened to me in the Fla Keys.  There is a post here somewhere about it.  I actually drove back to the Keys to fight the ticket and was able to succesfully prove he could not have measured my speed to be accurate.

The point of fighting and winning.  It (hopefully) tells the courts to look a little more interestingly into the practices of the Lone Rangers out there.  

If you fight, you go to the fight well armed and fully prepared.  As soon as you level the playing field, the cop folds up his tent pretty quickly.

Fight and prepare to win but realize you may also lose and the price will be steeper.

As to your AM vs PM argument....the courts aren't being nearly as picky about those type things.

A better argument would be, if there was no other traffic around you and it as wide open as you describe, what point of reference did the cop use to visually determine your speed, before engaging his radar to verify that visual measurment?  This is 90% of the reason the cops lose,

The reality is they have a human job to do before they depend on that piece of equipment to concur with thier trained human method.  They ignore that part of the job about 90% of the time.  Heck that takes effort and diligence and actual math and discipline....heck that ain't no fun and they don't want to do that.
I plan on fighting the ticket, no doubt at all. I'm not trying to be a jerk to the LEO by any means, I just don't believe in what he has to support always applies to certain people. Hey, the LEO may not either.

It's more along the lines of what Projekt said so very eloquently in the prior post above:


"If Law enforcement looks to enforce laws with an imprudent hidden agenda then we should be able to evade enforcement in an imprudent manner."

Thank you for all of the good info. I'm going to be checking into how to defend this tickey as much as possible. It's not a big ticket overall, but, hence the topic of the post, I don't want to think that everytime I, please excuse me, WE roll on the throttle that WE are supseptable to a license loss.
 
(turbojonn @ Sep. 04 2007,07:51) Sometimes I feel like I'm an antelope in a big herd on the savannah, with the Lions watching and waiting to pounce on some random one of us. What I'm saying is that we get picked on. It's because of the squids. Some of us are squids buut all of us ride bikes that make us look like squids.
If I were a cop I'd pick on sport bikes too. But that would amount to not cutting a guy a break if he were being a squid. If I were a cop I'd be ok with the little 10-15 over stuff. I wish we could get a badge or sticker we could stick on our bikes that showed our driving records. Then you'd know who was a squid and who was just going too fast for a short time.
+1

Love the sticker idea.

I don't care for the nut ball squids that do wheelies between cars on the freeway while scaring the poopie out of an elderly couple, with their 160 decible pipes, that make us look bad!

Doing a wheelie to make a little kid smile while there is not much traffic, whole 'nother world.

10-15 over, most of us on a Hayabusa are more than capable and we're not much danger to 'society', but a easy several hundred $$$ to the County.

Keepin' it real
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(Nekosohana @ Sep. 04 2007,08:50) In the US, you can get a motorcycle permit at the age of fifteen and a half and hop on a 0-60 in 2.7 second, 200 mph motorcycle.

Incorrect, at least it is where I am from.  In Texas you can get your liscence at 16, and you are limited to no more than 500cc's.  So I am not sure if that is the case or not in other states.[/Quote]
I think that this does vary from state to state.

I do have a friend in Texas that took the MSF class at the age of 20, maybe 21, and went out and got a 1000cc sportbike after passing the class, with no prior motorcycle expericence. So while he was not only 15 and1/2 years old, still a big step for a young rider with absolutely no prior motorcycle experience.
 
(Nekosohana @ Sep. 04 2007,08:50) As far as typos on a ticket... it depends on the typo.  Some can get you off (wrong VIN being a good example), but it's up to the judge to determine the intent of the ticket.

If you go online and read about fighting tickets, it can be a very simple (yet time consuming) process.  The trick is to waste time while building your case.  Personally, I will never go to court for a ticket again.  Deferring court dates is simple, and unless you feel that you don't have a case, you can actually do the whole thing by mail.

Here is some good information on how to "fight" your ticket (granted it's Canadian, but it's still pretty good about giving you an idea of your rights).

Fight a Ticket FAQ
and
Disclosure and your Rights to Information

The thing to remember here is that you are still innocent until proven guilty.  You did nothing wrong in the eyes of the court, whether you actually did it or not.  Personally, I will never enter a plea of "guilty" or "no contest" on a traffic violation again, simply based on the fact that at the most basic level... you can waste so much of the courts time that in the end they will let you go just to get you out of the way.  Plea-bargains are an option if you show that you have a case, and most of the time, you will just pay the fine, and not have points placed on your license (a VERY) good thing.  In fact, in most of those cases you will not even have a record of the violation.

As a final note, just like most information, your opportunity to defend yourself allows you time to research and prepare a defense.  Most of the people on the internet are interested in selling you something that will make them money (nothing wrong with that in my opinion), but the reality is that if money is an object, then your local library and a few hours of effort between the internet and the library will provide you with a good idea of what you can and cannot do.

*Disclaimer* I am not a lawyer (hopefully that is clear).  My advice makes no claim to be the best or right way to deal with the situation.  Any defence or plea that you make is not my responsibility.  Basically, this information has the equivalent value of the paper that it is printed on.
Thank you, by the way, for all the good info. I'm checking everything that you sent me!

Much appeciated!!!
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Ohhhhhh...... THANK GOD.............I thought for a minute there John was thinking of selling his Busa.....
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"PHEW !!!!".........It pays to read the entire thread !!!
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I was thinkin' "MAN, over a ticket
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......" THAT SUCKS...FOR ME. Who am I going to ride with if John bails on his Hayabusa
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..........he's the only one that "REALLY ENJOYS" outrunning me........
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No Really.... I think he gets off on putting long distances between us........maybe he's telling me something
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....
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Maybe he's up there laughing the whole time in his helmet.....
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.......then again, maybe he's thinkin' "C'mon Spud, stop daydreamin' and kick that thing in the arse"....
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