Democracy died tonight!!!!
- Thread starter skydivr
- Start date
I think we can all agree that the path this country is on is unsustainable. If you don't think the US can become like Greece then take the blinders off cause you can't see the forest for the trees. It appears that more and more economist have decided that a tax increase of any kind with the economy in this horrible shape is not a good idea. Unless action is taken everyone's taxes (Including yours) will increase considerably next year. We'll see how the administration responds and if they stick to their guns of taxing the rich for political purposes when only a fool would think we can get ourselves out of the hole without taxing the middle class because that's where the real money lies.
I don't know the answer to prosperity at this moment but what I do know is the motley crew in the white house doesn't know either.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of Wisconsin now that the issues between the voters has been settled. Next door in Illinois the debt is staggering and they are trying to tax their way to a balanced buget. Keep an eye on that state and we'll have something to compare.
I don't know the answer to prosperity at this moment but what I do know is the motley crew in the white house doesn't know either.
It will be interesting to see what becomes of Wisconsin now that the issues between the voters has been settled. Next door in Illinois the debt is staggering and they are trying to tax their way to a balanced buget. Keep an eye on that state and we'll have something to compare.
Obviously....I just take my country's future a little more seriously.
moloko
Banned
cuz calling people names on a motorcycle forum gets **** done. Serious business there. Things are quite a mess as a whole, and all they care about is pocketing as much of that money as they can before it all goes down the toilet. Believe me, I take it plenty seriously.
BUSA CRUSEN
Registered
I think unions can be a good thing, but not for public jobs. Public workers unions help their members, but hurt the non-member taxpayers. I don't understand how most people don't understand this. To be a public employee, you should expect to make a much lower wage than your private sector counterparts. Every penny that goes to paying public sector jobs comes from the taxes of private sector, jobs unless it gets "borrowed" from the federal government who just creates it out of thin air. Unions claim to only want to give their members a fair wage? More like they want to have their wages compete or better private sector wages. THIS CANNOT WORK FOR LONG! As far as I'm concerned if you have enough money to pay for a roof over your head, feed your family and have a couple toys, that makes you rich. Life might not be perfect or ideal, but look at countries with people who live day by day struggling to survive, while our biggest problem is trying to acquire more wealth or more power to increase our status.
Gpmo
Registered
RussellJ said:The word libtard does not refer to all liberals or I would have said retarded liberals. Libtard is a word derived from just the ignorant ones who spout mindless babble from the mouth without really doing any logical thinking with having mainly liberal views.
But I would classify your rather classless post including religion mocking and all that as a typical libtard post, yes Warchild.
My words are usually directed at individuals also. I usually try make them as specific as possible or how else are those people going to understand who I am talking aboutI sure do not want them to stay confused.
For example, my words in this thread were directed at the moron in the video along with moloko. My words above are directed at you Warchild. Should I need to clarify the direction of my words more to deter the incorrect assumption that I am labeling or "name-calling" a group of people I will be sure to do so. I do not see it as name calling, only that I am just telling someone how they are acting. I much prefer to be direct with people rather than passive. I also find people that use religion as a way of attack is just weak and pathetic which seems to be a favorite among some.
If you get offended by the use libtard (if not directed to you individually), that is your own problem to allow words (also specifically not directed at you) to affect your attitude and make you act in such a childish manner. I have yet to derive a term to label ignorant people of the likes of Donald Trump yet cause conservatard just doesn't fit his digressive ignorance level nor have a ring to it. I am diligently working towards one though
Call me a Bible-thumping, Jesus worshipping, don't want to give worthless people something for nothing, conservative all you want. It is who I am and those words really do not insult me. It just lets me know you are getting the point
I LOLed so hard reading this post. Lol.
To those of you that I disagree with, I think you are wrong and bad. To those of you that I agree with, you must be good and smart because you think like me.
Actually, I like most of you guys whether I agree with you or not. (unless you dislike me, in that case, I challenge you to a burnout contest). Doyle
Actually, I like most of you guys whether I agree with you or not. (unless you dislike me, in that case, I challenge you to a burnout contest). Doyle
Yes Doyle, we don't exactly agree on this political scene so I challenge you to a "Swingin Unit" contest. Whomever has the longest unit wins and the looser has to vote at the direction of the winner!
hey wouldn't it just be great if we could have one big ole Hayabusa group hug?
BUSA CRUSEN
Registered
Like this?:hug:
I the big issue here is Walkers assault on collective bargaining. I understand people are upset about the "lavish" public wages that people make. Trust me, I'm an Illinois state worker. The union is needed to bargain contracts and protect the workers. I'm not going to quote a bunch of stats or anything like that, Ill just tell you what my personal experiences are in dealing with the state and the unions. First off all, I dont defend any political party. There all crooks in my book and yes, controlled by big money be it unions or corps. I believe 3 of the last 4 Governers from this state are in federal prisons for corruption....from both parties. In Illinois is pretty strait forward. the state is controlled by Chicago.
Some backround on my job: I have worked for the Dept of Corrections for 16 years after a 6 year enlistment in the Army. I have a college degree in criminal justice. I am a Correctional Lieutenant that made roughly 70K last year. Working in management, I see the good and bad in unions. They negotiate the contracts for tens of thousands of employees doing basically the same job. This would be almost impossible to fairly negotiate each wage and benefits package. They also protect some people that could never hold a job in the public sector. We always say the union spends 95% of its time and money protecting 5% of the slugs.
The big difference between Illinois and Wisconsin is big and souldnt be compared (other than trying to break the union). The Wisconsin workers were paying nothing into the pension system or health care. I get the problem here. In Illinois I pay about 9% of my pay to the pension system, I also pay a good portion of my health care. The problem with our pension system wasnt caused by the "crazy" pensions we earn, it was caused by the political hacks the last 20 years in the state. Not only did they not pay the negotiated payment to the system, they took the money that the workers put in and used it for there pet projects.
Now back to my outrageous salary. On any day I can work as a zone supervisor or a shift commander. If I work as a shift commander I am in charge of the day to day operations of a facility made up of 26 buildings 50-60 workers depending on the day, 1300 inmates, a health care unit, a power house, college classes, a barber shop etc etc. I am also a memeber of our state wide tactical unit. I have been to numerous other prisons in out state dealing with flare ups in the system. I have been involved with a hostage situation that lasted about 32 hours. In october I spent 3 days hunting down an escapee out of our facility. The state is running the system short on personell, all of this adds up to a TON of mandatory overtime not only for myself, but thousands everyday. That is a big reason the salarys look inflated (the political hacks wont tell you that), they just say we make to much. If there was a comparable job in the private sector, how much money would I be making? I betting as much or most likely more.
Now the union contract. 4 years ago we negotiated a contract with the state. I have done my part, I show up to work in the evenings. We dont close so I show up to work on holidays, during kids football games and school functions. Last year was my first thanksgiving off in 9 years. I know, I know, thats what I signed up for. Yep your right, but I also signed up for thinking the state would hold up its end of the bargain. That hasnt happened. Our governer has decided the contract is not worth the paper it written on and has failed to pay any negotiated pay wages even after the union members voted to delay those wages to help with the budget. What would happen in the private sector if someone decided not to honor a contract?
Sorry this is so long. This whole thing just strikes a nerve with the BS "facts" and numbers that both sides throw out. Collective bargaining is a necessity in my job and it frustrates the hell out of me with people that dont have a clue what there talking about spout off a bunch of crap. I know I didnt cover everyting I could have, If you have any real questions or comments, post it up. Ill answer just about anything right here for all to see.
By the way, I didnt call anyone names!
Some backround on my job: I have worked for the Dept of Corrections for 16 years after a 6 year enlistment in the Army. I have a college degree in criminal justice. I am a Correctional Lieutenant that made roughly 70K last year. Working in management, I see the good and bad in unions. They negotiate the contracts for tens of thousands of employees doing basically the same job. This would be almost impossible to fairly negotiate each wage and benefits package. They also protect some people that could never hold a job in the public sector. We always say the union spends 95% of its time and money protecting 5% of the slugs.
The big difference between Illinois and Wisconsin is big and souldnt be compared (other than trying to break the union). The Wisconsin workers were paying nothing into the pension system or health care. I get the problem here. In Illinois I pay about 9% of my pay to the pension system, I also pay a good portion of my health care. The problem with our pension system wasnt caused by the "crazy" pensions we earn, it was caused by the political hacks the last 20 years in the state. Not only did they not pay the negotiated payment to the system, they took the money that the workers put in and used it for there pet projects.
Now back to my outrageous salary. On any day I can work as a zone supervisor or a shift commander. If I work as a shift commander I am in charge of the day to day operations of a facility made up of 26 buildings 50-60 workers depending on the day, 1300 inmates, a health care unit, a power house, college classes, a barber shop etc etc. I am also a memeber of our state wide tactical unit. I have been to numerous other prisons in out state dealing with flare ups in the system. I have been involved with a hostage situation that lasted about 32 hours. In october I spent 3 days hunting down an escapee out of our facility. The state is running the system short on personell, all of this adds up to a TON of mandatory overtime not only for myself, but thousands everyday. That is a big reason the salarys look inflated (the political hacks wont tell you that), they just say we make to much. If there was a comparable job in the private sector, how much money would I be making? I betting as much or most likely more.
Now the union contract. 4 years ago we negotiated a contract with the state. I have done my part, I show up to work in the evenings. We dont close so I show up to work on holidays, during kids football games and school functions. Last year was my first thanksgiving off in 9 years. I know, I know, thats what I signed up for. Yep your right, but I also signed up for thinking the state would hold up its end of the bargain. That hasnt happened. Our governer has decided the contract is not worth the paper it written on and has failed to pay any negotiated pay wages even after the union members voted to delay those wages to help with the budget. What would happen in the private sector if someone decided not to honor a contract?
Sorry this is so long. This whole thing just strikes a nerve with the BS "facts" and numbers that both sides throw out. Collective bargaining is a necessity in my job and it frustrates the hell out of me with people that dont have a clue what there talking about spout off a bunch of crap. I know I didnt cover everyting I could have, If you have any real questions or comments, post it up. Ill answer just about anything right here for all to see.
By the way, I didnt call anyone names!
Thank you GSXTacy!
You asked for questions, here's one for ya..
Under the previous "terms" in the collective bargaining you could call in sick for your normal shift of work, then come back later on and work overtime. What's up with that, and how can you not think that's wrong.
The purpose of getting rid of the collective bargaining was to eliminate the waste that was occurring. Also to allow the workers a choice of being in the Union or not, which they didn't have before.
I understand there are plenty of good people out there not abusing the system, but the ones that are just like everything else in life, are ruining it for everyone else.
It's just different in a public union since I am paying their wages, I should have some say in the decisions in some weird way.
You asked for questions, here's one for ya..
Under the previous "terms" in the collective bargaining you could call in sick for your normal shift of work, then come back later on and work overtime. What's up with that, and how can you not think that's wrong.
The purpose of getting rid of the collective bargaining was to eliminate the waste that was occurring. Also to allow the workers a choice of being in the Union or not, which they didn't have before.
I understand there are plenty of good people out there not abusing the system, but the ones that are just like everything else in life, are ruining it for everyone else.
It's just different in a public union since I am paying their wages, I should have some say in the decisions in some weird way.
Not sure where your getting that from. But that is 100% false in our contract. Yes, that would be wrong as hell. I could not be collecting overtime if I am the one "causing" the overtime. I think this is the kind of missinformation that I'm talking about. I'm not saying it hasnt happened somewhere, I dont know. But it does not happen at my job.
Rainbow7
Registered
The word libtard does not refer to all liberals or I would have said retarded liberals. Libtard is a word derived from just the ignorant ones who spout mindless babble from the mouth without really doing any logical thinking with having mainly liberal views.
But I would classify your rather classless post including religion mocking and all that as a typical libtard post, yes Warchild.
My words are usually directed at individuals also. I usually try make them as specific as possible or how else are those people going to understand who I am talking about
If you get offended by the use libtard (if not directed to you individually), that is your own problem to allow words (also specifically not directed at you) to affect your attitude and make you act in such a childish manner. I have yet to derive a term to label ignorant people of the likes of Donald Trump yet cause conservatard just doesn't fit his digressive ignorance level nor have a ring to it. I am diligently working towards one though
Call me a Bible-thumping, Jesus worshipping, don't want to give worthless people something for nothing, conservative all you want. It is who I am and those words really do not insult me. It just lets me know you are getting the point
Great post, Russell!
Also: LOL, Liberals! Eat crap, unionised government drones.
It's just different in a public union since I am paying their wages, I should have some say in the decisions in some weird way.
I understand this 100% Were close enough, we have to hook up one day for a lunch ride or something. Ill bring my contract and you can scour it all you want. I think you will find out that depending on which TV network you are watching or what newpaper or website you are reading, you will get totally different "facts".
I understand this 100% Were close enough, we have to hook up one day for a lunch ride or something. Ill bring my contract and you can scour it all you want. I think you will find out that depending on which TV network you are watching or what newpaper or website you are reading, you will get totally different "facts".
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