Counter-steering...?

BulletTrain

Call me Daddy...
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Ok, I thought I had a mental grasp on counter-steering at one point but now I'm not so sure I do. Can someone put it in idiot format so I can figure out whether or not I actually have a clue? It was brought up in my "Leaning the bike" thread. I started to ask there but I thought it deserved a thread of it's own so anyone else that has a question about this doesn't miss it buried in another thread.

Thanks...
 
For a quick Countersteering demo, Simply ride in a straight line, push the bar the direction you want to go while sitting comfortably in the seat. Push Right, Go Right, Push Left go left. It is really the only way a bike gets turned. A lot of folks claim to not counter steer and say they use "Body steering or whatever. Mostly they are unconsiously pushing the bar the direction they want to go without thinking about it. It really is dead easy...
 
I've been playing with counter-steering on the Harley lately...someone told me it's very helpful on a Busa...

If you're already rounding a corner, give the bar a push in the direction your leaning...you'll immediately feel that little extra push/lean...if it doesn't feel right, you can just stop that push and you're back to just leaning. It's very slight depending on the amount of push, but I've found it's a great way to get a feeling for what counter-steering feels like and can accomplish.

I'm still learning, but I can tell it's very easy to do and a bit easier to round a corner without feeling like you're leaning the hell out of the bike...

...now, that's all on a little Harley, so on the Busa I'll be re-teaching myself what all that means!
 
For a quick Countersteering demo, Simply ride in a straight line, push the bar the direction you want to go while sitting comfortably in the seat.  Push Right, Go Right, Push Left go left.   It is really the only way a bike gets turned. A lot of folks claim to not counter steer and say they use "Body steering or whatever.  Mostly they are unconsiously pushing the bar the direction they want to go without thinking about it.  It really is dead easy...
Ok, there's where I need the clarification...

When you say push right, you are saying to actually turn the handle bars to the right, as in push the left handle forward, turning the fork to the right, correct? That's what I'm taking from all this. That was how I thought I understood it to begin with as well. It's just that using the term "push" instead of turn or twist right kinda made me unsure as to whether or not I actually understood.
 
It is just a push Chris...like you're pushing the right handlebar away from your body if you want to lean right...

I was so confused and scared sh*tless the first time I felt it...it's all I could think about, and then I couldn't make a turn at all! Anyway, my stupidity aside, if you push the right bar away from your body, the front tire will actually turn slightly left (try explaining that to a blonde!?) and you'll lean right...it's not pulling in toward you, or twisting anything...just a slight push away on the left or right, depending on which way you want to go...

You have to practice it to feel it, and once you feel it, you'll know you just counter-steered...
 
When you push forwards with your right hand, the steering head turns to the left. While this happens the motorcycle leans to the right and turns. Get out on a decent empty road and slowly play with this until you get the concept. It is something that you are already doing, but just putting too much thought into it. Even when you were learning on a bicycle you were doing the same thing once you got up to a decent speed. The biggest mistake parents can make is to give their children tri-cycles. These teach just the opposite of what they will be using from the time that they lose their training wheels on. 2 wheeled vehicles do NOT turn same as a car.
 
Ok, I guess I didn't have a grasp on it after all. I really want to understand this, though. I'll definitely try it on my next ride, but in the mean time I'd like to try and understand what it is that I'll be doing. Here's what I'm taking from the last two posts at this point.

Let's say I'm in a sweeping curve to my left. If I want to lean left more and turn harder/sharper to my left I push the left grip to increase my lean?

Maybe I am doing it subconsciously. The thing is, I'd like to be conscious of it and know what types of circumstances it would be purposefully used for.

And to think, I thought I knew something about riding before I bought my busa and started hanging out here. Something my Dad used to say to me when I would argue against logic comes to mind here... "Chris, you don't know as much as you think you do."   :D

The difference here is that I'm willing to admit my ignorance and learn...  :cool:
 
Thats all that matters, if you are willing to learn. Let us know how it turns out for you.

Yes you have the right idea now
 
OK FIRST, Get Thee to the Bookstore...Amazon is a good start. Pick Up a couple of books. Keith Codes, Twist of the Wrist, 1 and 2. And Proficiant Motorcycling By David Hough (Huff).

Seriously though, Find the Local MSF course and Sign Up. It is fun, and you get to play on little bikes. But you could learn more in a weekend than we can teach you in months. Better yet, you actually get to practice what you hear and read right away. The class is worth every penny! It Could save your ass or some insurance money.

OK...Yeah, what we are talking about is actually pushing the bar forward away from you. So when I say push left, Go left, I mean it literally. If you want to have any sort of real control over your bike countersteering is the way to do it. Now you said that you are getting leaned over right? Well if you are getting it leaned over, how are you getting there? Chances are you think you are getting it over via body english, but what is happening (probably) is that you end up applying preasure to the inside grip without thinking about it. But once you understand how the mechanism works it will make all the difference in the world. You will suddenly have all kinds of newfound (critical) control. Start light, but go back to the parking lot AGAIN, and just get out there, ride straight at about 20 MPH and gently push the right grip forward away from you, and you will turn right. Do the same with the left. Counter steering works miracles at anything more than a walking pace.

Really...
 
Cool, thanks. I'll be doing a little riding tomorrow so I'll find a safe place and give it a try.
 
Ok, I guess I didn't have a grasp on it after all. I really want to understand this, though. I'll definitely try it on my next ride, but in the mean time I'd like to try and understand what it is that I'll be doing. Here's what I'm taking from the last two posts at this point.

Let's say I'm in a sweeping curve to my left. If I want to lean left more and turn harder/sharper to my left I push the left grip to increase my lean?

Maybe I am doing it subconsciously. The thing is, I'd like to be conscious of it and know what types of circumstances it would be purposefully used for.

And to think, I thought I knew something about riding before I bought my busa and started hanging out here. Something my Dad used to say to me when I would argue against logic comes to mind here... "Chris, you don't know as much as you think you do."   :D

The difference here is that I'm willing to admit my ignorance and learn...  :cool:
Yup that is the concept in a nut shell. If you want to try the advanced version you can add your feet/ legs to the equation. Just push down with thw leg that is highest in the lean. In your example you are turning left. So you push the left grip forward and push down on the right footpeg.

I very strongly recommend that you purchase a copy of Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II. It explains all this and so much more in plain english. I've literally worn out 3 copies from repeated reading.

:cool: :thumbsup:
 
Gotcha, Sorry I had to ask.

Yeah, I agree....Though I am not saying I have a great mind...I mean Uh...Oh Nevermind....

Thanks I got it.... :bounce:
 
Ok, just ordered TOTW I & II and Proficient Motorcycling from Amazon.com. Been meaning to do it anyway. Should answer a lot of the questions I have, and some that I don't have yet. How about the Keith Code book titled Soft Science of Roadracing Motorcycles or something like that? Anyone have it? Thought it might be a good next book after I get through these.
 
Bullet, If ya got TOTW I & II SSOMR is basicly already covered. I loaned my copy out to someone, never got it back.
Never felt the need to replace it eith. Just my .02
 
Cool. Either way, I figure the three books I have ordered will keep me busy learning for quite a while. Thanks for the feedback on the other book though.
 
lol... "Just hanging off the bike" is what they called it when I was learning... causes you to push on the bar on the inside of the turn and "push left, go left just kinda happens...

As a former MSF instructor.... go take the course. Basic Rider.

:devil:
 
I plan to take the course, alien, I just have to werk it into my schedule. Lately it just ain't happenin'. I plan to take some vacation time soon. The MSF will definitely be a part of that time.
 
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