Cops in the rearview

[Josh Jones]

So Im on my way home today from my grandparents and rode threw town. I seen 4 cops flyin threw town headed towards the next town over. I start to follow just because Im noisy and then see a friend so I stop to talk to him.
We decide to head to my house and then as Im turnin on my road a cop passes by looks me in the eyes and then does a u-turn. He follows me all the way to my house right on my butt! I turn to pull into my house then he putts his lights on and pulls in my driveway. I ask him what the problem was and why he was pulling me over?
He just asks to see my licenses then my insurance and all that crap......he asks to search me and all that so then finally he tells me that sum1 robbed a place in the next town over and the decription matched me......I'm a white guy on a "black" bike with a khaki pants and grey shite short brown hair........the decription i hear them sayin over the radio is a long haired blond on a black and purple bike with blue jeans and a black or red shirt with a skull on his helmet.....the stupid cop calls for 4 other backup cars.... I guess because he was a city cop and we was out of city limits....
Well anyway I got took to the place that got robbed to get IDed so the ppl said it wasnt me and they took me back home....

If there is any cops or nething on the forum I would like to if that was right or was they pushin it? Thanx for listenin to my long story.....haha

 

[proud dad]

 

[rockadaous]

that's crazy. I would have been pissed.

 

[GPW]

Legally what happened was called a "Terry Stop" an officer needs reasonable and articulable suspicion that criminal activty is afoot or has been commited. The "Terry Frisk" or search was justisfied if the "Terry Stop" was legal. Under the circumstances, close proximity to the crime scene on a bike and a white male. Is close, is it an absolute depends on how the story was written. We have all seen the shows where a suspect runs into a room full of 30 people and runs out. Each of the thrity people have different descriptions. So with that said ruling out its not you is not a bad thing. As long as things were explained to you and you were treated respectfully. Its part of the game.

 

[spikedoutbusa]

Thats crazy....

 

[Fate]

+1 what GPW said. I guess the question is if you were the victim of the robbery, wouldn't you want the cops to do everything they could to catch the guys that commited the crime especially to check the white guy on the bike that just happens to fit the description of the purp? I am sure it was an inconvience to you, but they have a job to do and atleast they were trying to catch the bad guy. (thoughts racing through my head) "There are places where the cops would have probably just ran up to the local doughnut shop and filed the paperwork later that night and never looked for the guy" (Wait, I did not say that out loud did I?)

 

[marlboroman71818]

+1 i think it is good that he was trying to do his job. maybe should not have been on your tail so close, but at least he is trying to help your community

 

[Spudley]

Uhhhhhh.....so why'd ya do it

?...........

 

[TallTom]

(GPW @ May 07 2007,20:08) We have all seen the shows where a suspect runs into a room full of 30 people and runs out. Each of the thrity people have different descriptions. So with that said ruling out its not you is not a bad thing.

Isn't a police officer trained to not be one of those 30? Aren't they trained to know how to identifiy more quickly and with more certainty the particulars that would allow for a more positive ID more of the time than 30 untrained individuals. Aren't they trained to be able to make quick decisions based on trained skills, on the job skills, and instilled know how? Isn't that the point and idea of training them is to expect them to be better at this than the other 30 in that room, to hold them to a standard that doesn't anticipate nor tolerate them accosting citizens minding thier own business going about thier day?

Just a thought.

 

[TennBusa]

(TallTom @ May 08 2007,04:27)

(GPW @ May 07 2007,20:08) We have all seen the shows where a suspect runs into a room full of 30 people and runs out. Each of the thrity people have different descriptions. So with that said ruling out its not you is not a bad thing.

Isn't a police officer trained to not be one of those 30?  Aren't they trained to know how to identifiy more quickly and with more certainty the particulars that would allow for a more positive ID more of the time than 30 untrained individuals.   Aren't they trained to be able to make quick decisions based on trained skills, on the job skills, and instilled know how?  Isn't that the point and idea of training them is to expect them to be better at this than the other 30 in that room, to hold them to a standard that doesn't anticipate nor tolerate them accosting citizens minding thier own business going about thier day?

Just a thought.

That may be true TallTom but the cop wasn't the witness.  He had a white guy on a black bike which was a close enough fit to maybe justify the check.  He was operating on someone elses description that may not have been trained.

Like was said earlier, if he was treated with respect, it's all part of life.  They were at least making an effort to solve the crime.

This is done every day to some citizens in this country. Quite a few ARE guilty and get caught just this way.

 

[TallTom]

(TennBusa @ May 08 2007,04:43) Just a thought.

That may be true TallTom but the cop wasn't the witness.  He had a white guy on a black bike which was a close enough fit to maybe justify the check.  He was operating on someone elses description that may not have been trained.

Like was said earlier, if he was treated with respect, it's all part of life.  They were at least making an effort to solve the crime.

This is done every day to some citizens in this country.  Quite a few ARE guilty and get caught just this way.[/Quote]
Agreed. But in your scenario because the description is suspect, he would be entitled to pull over any white guy on any bike that was close to black in color, so now we get into how much of the population? (Dark Blue, purple, Deep Maroon etc.) On top of that, white, does that mean caucasion white, or any sort of light skinned enough type complexion? Asians are more white than Latinos but we could have a white guy with a good tan. I have seen Latinos with blondish hair that makes them pretty darn white in a pinch now doesn't it? So now he can pull over "sorta white lookin guys" on "kinda dark colored bikes" now.

The cop goes on the description given, as close as practical. The 2 descriptions discussed here "I'm a white guy on a "black" bike with a khaki pants and grey shirt short brown hair........the decription i hear them sayin over the radio is a long haired blond on a black and purple bike with blue jeans and a black or red shirt with a skull on his helmet"...ain't that close to each other.

If the descpription isn't a valid one because the source of the description is not trained, it ain't up to the cop to make the population fit the bad description. He goes with what he/she is told as a descrition and those are the limits he can live by if they had a bad description to start with. Maybe the bad guys gets away but it won't be the cops fault if he does.

Maybe the cop was just trying to do his job. Why was he not subjected to a felony stop as a potential robbery suspect? Treat him with respect required but procedure none the less. I have been subjected to a felony stop before. And when it was said and done I thanked the officer for his respect, restraint and honesty in his actions. I totally did not mind the fact that he felt it was necessary at the time and I concurred with him.

I think it was a stop of convienience myself. Lets run the tag and see if we can get lucky here.

 

[GPW]

(TallTom @ May 08 2007,04:27)

(GPW @ May 07 2007,20:08) We have all seen the shows where a suspect runs into a room full of 30 people and runs out. Each of the thrity people have different descriptions. So with that said ruling out its not you is not a bad thing.

Isn't a police officer trained to not be one of those 30?  Aren't they trained to know how to identifiy more quickly and with more certainty the particulars that would allow for a more positive ID more of the time than 30 untrained individuals.   Aren't they trained to be able to make quick decisions based on trained skills, on the job skills, and instilled know how?  Isn't that the point and idea of training them is to expect them to be better at this than the other 30 in that room, to hold them to a standard that doesn't anticipate nor tolerate them accosting citizens minding thier own business going about thier day?

Just a thought.

Just in case you missed it, the Police officer was not the witness. Hey forget I responded, I am retired. I did my 16 years...most of which were in training and K9 services.

 

[Abuzive]

I'm no police but they went way too far! What if the guy had Id you?

 

[rockadaous]

hey greg i didn't know you were a coppa/popo/da man lol

 

[GPW]

(rockadaous @ May 08 2007,05:55) hey greg i didn't know you were a coppa/popo/da man  lol

Right out of college, realized I was not going to play any more footballl...so whats a guy to do next. I learned a lot about people doing that job. There are good cops, bad cops, fat cops and fair cops. I was very fair. Because of my specialty I was always sent to crimes in progress...the action stuff...

Two weeks after I retired I got stopped in VA, speeding 50 in a 35. I got a ticket too. I did not bitch or cry or blame the Deputy. I was speeding. I thought of all the times in the last 16 years that I was doing 170 in a 45 and got away with it.

Some of the best cops in the world are just as wild and crazy as the next guy. I was a two-time officer of the year. I was labeled the "nut". Having a kid makes you think twice about getting another bullet in you. One was enough for me...........

 

[rockadaous]

(GPW @ May 08 2007,09:32)

(rockadaous @ May 08 2007,05:55) hey greg i didn't know you were a coppa/popo/da man  lol

Right out of college, realized I was not going to play any more footballl...so whats a guy to do next. I learned a lot about people doing that job. There are good cops, bads cops, fat cops and fair cops. I was very fair. Because of my specialty I was always sent to crimes in progress...the action stuff...

Two weeks after I retired I got stopped in VA, speeding 50 in a 35. I got a ticket too. I did not bitch or cry or blame the Deputy. I was speeding. I thought of all the times in the last 16 years that I was doing 170 in a 45 and got away with it.

Some of the best cops in the world are just as wild and crazy as the next guy. I was a two-time officer of the year. I was labeled the "nut". Having a kid makes you think twice about getting another bullet in you. One was enough for me...........

nothing wrong with that.
Sounds like you had a good time.
there's good and bad in every crowd.
I think I would have pulled out my retired badge on the ticket lol

 

[guido4512]

(Abuzive @ May 08 2007,08:34) What if the guy had Id you?

Yes, the scary part that could of happened is : the store owner says" Yeah, I think that's the guy officer." and away he goes......................GUILTY.

 

[thrasherfox]

The issue with the description is when a crime occurs the witness are usually overwhelmed with data overflow in referance to the situation around them.

You can talk to 5 differatn witness's that witness the same event and get 5 differant descriptions.

One person could say the person had short hair, one person might say the suspect had long hair

One person might say the suspect had light brown hair, the other witness might describe the person has having blonde hair.

Not only is it difficult for people to remember exact facts when they are rattled, but their is also issues of perception (what might be considered long hair to one person might be considerd short to someone else)

And you also have the issue that differant people percieve colors in differant ways.


So when you take all this into consideration. If witness say white male on a motorcycle you kind of throw out colors of bike and hair and look at what are main facts that are diffiult to misjudge male, motorcycle.

So when you have a male on the motorcycle in the vicinity of the robery, they will check the person out and try to figure out the minor details (color of hair, length of hair, color of bike) after they detain a suspect as they did.

So to me it makes sense what they did, just sucks to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[cosmo]

I don't know anything and NO you can't search me. I want my lawyer NOW.

 

[TallTom]

(thrasherfox @ May 08 2007,10:12) The issue with the description is when a crime occurs the witness are usually overwhelmed with data overflow in referance to the situation around them.

You can talk to 5 differatn witness's that witness the same event and get 5 differant descriptions.

One person could say the person had short hair, one person might say the suspect had long hair

One person might say the suspect had light brown hair, the other witness might describe the person has having blonde hair.

Not only is it difficult for people to remember exact facts when they are rattled, but their is also issues of perception (what might be considered long hair to one person might be considerd short to someone else)

And you also have the issue that differant people percieve colors in differant ways.


So when you take all this into consideration. If witness say white male on a motorcycle you kind of throw out colors of bike and hair and look at what are main facts that are diffiult to misjudge male, motorcycle.

So when you have a male on the motorcycle in the vicinity of the robery, they will check the person out and try to figure out the minor details (color of hair, length of hair, color of bike) after they detain a suspect as they did.

So to me it makes sense what they did, just sucks to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And believe me I get all that.

But lets review here.

The cop did not immediately pull him over, he followed him to his house then hit his lights. In that time he could have run his plates and seen if there were any red flags. Don't know if he did or not. He was possibly in pursuit of a robbery suspect, yet he does not initiate a felony stop and takes his time turning his lights on.

Then he makes a routine license and registartion yadda yadda to see if anything may pop up. What does this have to do with trying to match the description of a robbery suspect?

I actually concur with the idea that the cop, assuming he may have some had remote chance of actually finding the perp based on the description on the radio vs the guy he pulls over, takes him to be ID'd by the victim. That part I actually think was the closest part to being right, assuming that the cop felt he was actually trying to catch the robber.

Now then thank goodness he had all his paperwork in order and legal. Ther last chapter could have easily been OK well they didn't give you a positive ID but your license is mangled so I will have to write you up for that and you have lens on your turn signal broken so that will be another ticket...have a nice day...sorry for the bad ID thingie...just doing my job.

The consent to search part is a toughie. The second you refuse the search you will get jacked up by the cop. You really are in a bind if you don't allow the search. Screw your rights being violated, who wants to go to jail and spend all that time unjacking it afterwards?

Ok note: I am one of those who would spend all the time, pursuing my 4th amendment violations afterwards...but hey that is just me. I don't expect many to be like me and neither do the cops on the street.