Comparison of K1200S, ZX12, and Busa

[Aughtsix]

I predict right now that after the few initial die hard, beemer fanatic, "Juwst Gotta Have One Impulse Sales" are over???...K1200S's are going to collect a lot of dust between sales....especially when "Used K1200S" owners looking to sell realize that very few will elect to purchase a $12,000 used beemer over a brand new Busa or 12R.

I don't know - think about it.  An exotic, upscale, exclusive, well maintained used German bike on which the original owner has taken the substantial initial depreciation hit -vs- a run-of-the-mill, no-technologies, everybody has one Japanese bike that's immediately worth 15% less as soon as the paperwork is signed?  For the same price??  Sounds like a no-brainer to me...

Originally posted by onerabidshark  IM WITH EVERYONE ON THIS ONE WITH THE EXTRA 5 G'S SAVED CAN'T YOU PUT A TURBO ON A BUSA AND YOU GUYS THAT HAVE THEM LETS SEE THE BEEMER PLAY THEN  [/QUOTE]

Firstly dude, lose the caps.  Secondly, bolting on a turbo isn't going to improve the Busa's suspension.  The K12S didn't defeat the 12r and Busa on power, it defeated them by virtue of a superior suspension.

Put that $5k into suspension upgrades, leave the engine alone and THEN re-run the competition.  That would be more interesting IMHO.  However, in the end you've sunk $5k into what is still a $10k bike carrying standard depreciation.

Originally posted by DAB  hmmmm.... so they picked the bike with "jerky" throttle response that causes the bike to "lurch" forward..... [/QUOTE]

Yup!  That speaks volumes in my mind.  As I've pointed out before, even with the low speed fueling glitch it STILL defeated the two best of class Hyper-Sport Tourers.  This simply has to have made riding, especially in the highly technical sections, a B one T Charlie.  Just imagine the outcome once the fueling glitch is corrected.

The balloon's gone up and it ain't getting any worse guys, it's only getting better...

Steve



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[IL_BusaBoy]

No matter what is said, the Busa is still the sexiest beast on the street. PERIOD!

 

[BA BUSA]

BMW does make a quality product....and the Busa is in need of a make over, but this particular bike review is a joke

 

[BulletTrain]

BMW does make a quality product....and the Busa is in need of a make over, but this particular bike review is a joke

And the whole thread is summarized into one sentence. Well said, man. You nailed it without writing a book like the rest of us.

 

[BA BUSA]

BMW does make a quality product....and the Busa is in need of a make over, but this particular bike review is a joke

And the whole thread is summarized into one sentence. Well said, man. You nailed it without writing a book like the rest of us.

Thanks BT

They are comparing a bike that has already had problems....mechanical and electrical....costs 50% more....and hasn't even hit the real world yet.

Yes BMW will fix it, but I need to see a few more shoot outs. Lets get all the big sport/sport touring bikes all together for one big IMPARTIAL test.

I don't care about HP #'s....I want to see the performance #'s.....0-60, 0-100, 100-0, 0-100-0, lap times.  

 

[shenoyp]

The BMW looks good! But I have my own reservations regarding german technology... technical reliabality wise all the german vehicles are Bull$hit

...The busa rocks! All hail the king

 

[busa_boy_69]

Unfreakingbelievable! I never thought I would see the day a magazine would compare 3 bikes and say the Busa was the worst out of the lot. I own one and would not agree with that at all. I have rode a friends zx12 and I was not impressed at all. Now granted it is a nice bike to but for looks, comfort, braking, launching, and all out balls to the wall speed I would not trade my busa for all the tea in China. I hope to god Suzuki puts everyone back in their place soon. Everyone seems to be forgetting the rep of the Busa lately. Freaking Grrrr!

 

[Aughtsix]

BMW does make a quality product....and the Busa is in need of a make over, but this particular bike review is a joke

And the whole thread is summarized into one sentence. Well said, man. You nailed it without writing a book like the rest of us.

Thanks BT

They are comparing a bike that has already had problems....mechanical and electrical....costs 50% more....and hasn't even hit the real world yet.

Yes BMW will fix it, but I need to see a few more shoot outs. Lets get all the big sport/sport touring bikes all together for one big IMPARTIAL test.

I don't care about HP #'s....I want to see the performance #'s.....0-60, 0-100, 100-0, 0-100-0, lap times.  

Personally I can't see how you could categorize the review as a joke - it's an honest review. And traditionally the British have not been kind to German bikes...

But I guess time will tell - this is the first of many reviews to come. If subsequent reviews end more critically of the K12S then you'll have your day, though I simply don't see that happening, especially in comparison with the Busa and 12r. Don't be surprised though if subsequent reviews echo this terribly unfair and biased joke of a review.

It's simply baffling how some of you seem to have a problem with the K12S usurping the position as the King of Hyper-Sport Tourers. I can't recall we ZX-11 owners or the 1100XX owners at the time sniveling and whining so loudly when the Busa earned top billing - we were disappointed, of course, but at the same time we were excited at the advancement to motorcycling the Busa represented.

Lastly, I don't know where you live, but here in the real world there are K12S in dealer showrooms - available for test rides. It appears as though you may not be living in the real world afterall...

Steve

 

[Aughtsix]

Everyone seems to be forgetting the rep of the Busa lately. Freaking Grrrr!

Could that be because Suzuki has been resting on that rep for the last six years??

Steve

 

[BA BUSA]

BMW does make a quality product....and the Busa is in need of a make over, but this particular bike review is a joke

And the whole thread is summarized into one sentence. Well said, man. You nailed it without writing a book like the rest of us.

Thanks BT

They are comparing a bike that has already had problems....mechanical and electrical....costs 50% more....and hasn't even hit the real world yet.

Yes BMW will fix it, but I need to see a few more shoot outs. Lets get all the big sport/sport touring bikes all together for one big IMPARTIAL test.

I don't care about HP #'s....I want to see the performance #'s.....0-60, 0-100, 100-0, 0-100-0, lap times.  

Personally I can't see how you could categorize the review as a joke - it's an honest review.  And traditionally the British have not been kind to German bikes...

But I guess time will tell - this is the first of many reviews to come.  If subsequent reviews end more critically of the K12S then you'll have your day, though I simply don't see that happening, especially in comparison with the Busa and 12r.  Don't be surprised though if subsequent reviews echo this terribly unfair and biased joke of a review.

It's simply baffling how some of you seem to have a problem with the K12S usurping the position as the King of Hyper-Sport Tourers.  I can't recall we ZX-11 owners or the 1100XX owners at the time sniveling and whining so loudly when the Busa earned top billing - we were disappointed, of course, but at the same time we were excited at the advancement to motorcycling the Busa represented.

Lastly, I don't know where you live, but here in the real world there are K12S in dealer showrooms - available for test rides.  It appears as though you may not be living in the real world afterall...  

 

Steve

They may be in the showrooms, but how many have been delivered. I like the K1200S, I just received a flyer about the "Open Throttle Open House" and I plan on test riding one of them. I also signed up online for more info on one.

In the article I think that not all the info is correct...time will tell.

 

[JINKSTER]

There's a lot to be learned here...specifically???...check out the "Ride Report" where the K12S owner bumped it against his buds G1K....

http://www.bmwk1200s.com/ridefast.htm

aughtsix....

"I can't recall we ZX-11 owners or the 1100XX owners at the time sniveling and whining so loudly when the Busa earned top billing -"

That's because the Busa was a marked and unquestionable leap forward in the performance arena and wasn't billing itself as a "XX Beater" while exhibiting 20FTLBS less torque and 35LBS more weight.

"Lastly, I don't know where you live, but here in the real world there are K12S in dealer showrooms - available for test rides.  It appears as though you may not be living in the real world afterall..."

I live in the real world...southeast florida...40 miles north of Palm Beach....100 miles north of Miami...and...there are a total of (4) BMW dealers in my state....two on the west coast Tampa & Fort Meyers (each about 200 miles away) and the third mid-state in Orlando (130 miles northwest of me) with the fourth in Daytona (180 miles due north)....by comparison???...I've got my choice of three different Authorized Suzuki dealers all within 20 miles of my home...located soundly in...the real world.

When I was 16 on a honda CB360T this old man of a riding partner owned a honda CBX he traded in for a BMW....6 months later his throttle cable broke....and his beloved bmw sat for 3+ months waiting on a part...and as soon as that throttle cable arrived???...so did a "For Sale" sign....and thanks to my old riding bud I learned a lot about exotic euro bikes well before I ever hit 17!!! LOL!!!

L8R, Bill.

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[DAB]

There's a lot to be learned here...specifically???...check out the "Ride Report" where the K12S owner bumped it against his buds G1K....

http://www.bmwk1200s.com/ridefast.htm

Found it. Here it is for the lazy people:

"A BAT OUT OF HELL OR THE GIXXER FACTOR: I decided to visit a friend who rides an '03 Suzuki GSXR-1000 (he let's me ride his bike from time to time) for a back-to-back comparison. I parked the S in his garage and let him ogle over the "new" as I took his Gixxer for a ride. (His bike is not stock, although it has no engine mods. It does have the following alternations: Different gearing in the rear sprocket: +2 teeth. Ferrodo track brakes, stainless steel -2 race brake lines up front. Ohlins steering dampener.)


Compare to the K1200S the Gixxer is a bat out of hell. There is immense power from the get go and with no end in sight. There is so much power that you are simply overwhelmed by this beast. Was I expecting the GSXR experience when I first rode the K1200S? I think so and that's why I was initially disappointed. Compare to the BMW the Suzuki is much smaller, lighter, narrower, more compact and truly outstanding in terms of power delivery. I had to be at my most focus when riding this bike. This machine just leaps into life from idle and the torque keeps building until redline. I managed 148MPH before slowing down without trying very hard (I was encouraged by my friend to be merciless to his bike). The Gixxer has all the speed you'd ever dream and it is quite a rush but it lacks the comfort and the luxury. Such as life...

After I got back on the BMW, it felt like a GT. Compare to a race-ready machine like the Suzuki, the K1200S felt like a magic carpet ride. And for me it is a better choice. The Suzuki GSXR-1000 is exhilarating and would make an awesome track bike but for me the K1200S is nearly as fast, corners very well with superior brakes yet retains the degree of comfort and luxury that I crave in a bike.

I understood the BMW even more after my ride on the Suzuki. I also realized that the factor that causes the illusion of mellowness on the S is the delayed introduction of massive power. In the S the real power kicks in at the higher RPMs but in the Suzuki it is available from idle."

 

[BA BUSA]

I wish that somebody would raise the BAR....then maybe Suzuki would update the Busa.

 

[BA BUSA]

For the Touring class the K1200S has raised the BAR....for the Hyper/Sport class....Busa, 12R, 1100XX....it does not.

Read the "Ride Report" at bmwk1200s.com....there's a link in a previous post. This is from a long time BMW rider and owner, although he likes the bike alot, its not the "BUSA KILLER" that the magazines talk about.

It's all HYPE....as to the power and speed of this machine.

 

[RandomNickname]

They're looking at the Busa as a Tourer-specific bike, rather than a Tourer-capable bike, from how I read it. And in that respect, it might be a better bike.

But the fact is that they seem to be overlooking a lot of their own observations as to the Beemer's performance in order to give it top-dog honors.

Plus, they're comparing a brand new bike to a bike a couple of years old, to a bike that has been virtually unchanged since '99. Gee, I wonder which one they're going to like more.

Also, the Busa has a cramped riding position? At 6'6" you'd think I'd notice that, but, meh. Whatever.

I'm sure the K1200S is a ver capable bike, and lord knows BMW does manage to put every possible creature comofort on a bike while still making them quite rideable, but this article is a just a tad too much in the butt-kissing vein to take it as a serious review.

(Then again, I've always despised MCN. For my british mags, give me Bike or T.W.O. any day.)

 

[BA BUSA]

They say a new R1 is more comfortable than a Busa. The Busa and 12R only got 30MPG....I ride the pi## out of my Busa and still get 35.

The 0-60 times, 1/4 mile, top speed?

The BMW owner in the "Ride Report" felt cramped on the K12S and commented on where's the "power".

 

[Aughtsix]

They may be in the showrooms, but how many have been delivered. I like the K1200S, I just received a flyer about the "Open Throttle Open House" and I plan on test riding one of them. I also signed up online for more info on one.

In the article I think that not all the info is correct...time will tell.

Don't change the question mid-stream...

You wrote:

and hasn't even hit the real world yet.[/QUOTE]

Irrespective how many folks have taken delivery - and there are many - the fact of the matter is that the bike has already 'hit the real world' and is available on the showroom floor for anyone to buy.

How many will have to be on the road before you declare it 'viable' ??

Steve

 

[Aughtsix]

aughtsix....

"I can't recall we ZX-11 owners or the 1100XX owners at the time sniveling and whining so loudly when the Busa earned top billing -"

That's because the Busa was a marked and unquestionable leap forward in the performance arena and wasn't billing itself as a "XX Beater" while exhibiting 20FTLBS less torque and 35LBS more weight.

Yes, as much as the K12S is a leap forward of the Busa and about as much a leap forward as the ZX-11 was in its day. The important point is that we didn't snivel and whine about it. In fact, many gladly accepted the advancement and sold or traded their bikes for a Busa.

I think you may be under a misconception about my viewpoints. In no way am I trying to convince anyone that the K12S is a "Busa Beater" in terms of top speed or acceleration. However, so far by what I've read it IS a "Busa Beater" in terms of real world performance, regardless its power and weight.

Sadly, some seem to see the Busa as that much of a one-trick pony...

"Lastly, I don't know where you live, but here in the real world there are K12S in dealer showrooms - available for test rides. It appears as though you may not be living in the real world afterall..."

I live in the real world...southeast florida...40 miles north of Palm Beach....100 miles north of Miami...and...there are a total of (4) BMW dealers in my state....two on the west coast Tampa & Fort Meyers (each about 200 miles away) and the third mid-state in Orlando (130 miles northwest of me) with the fourth in Daytona (180 miles due north)....by comparison???...I've got my choice of three different Authorized Suzuki dealers all within 20 miles of my home...located soundly in...the real world. [/QUOTE]

To what, Jinkster, are you responding? We weren't making a comparison of the number of BMW dealers to the number of Suzuki dealers. The quote to which you're reponding is a counter of BA Busa's statement that the K12S "hasn't even hit the real world yet." when in fact, it clearly has. To prove the point, I'd guess that you could visit one of those BMW dealers near you and test ride one.

When I was 16 on a honda CB360T this old man of a riding partner owned a honda CBX he traded in for a BMW....6 months later his throttle cable broke....and his beloved bmw sat for 3+ months waiting on a part[/QUOTE]

A lovely 'Uncle Bob' story, though I don't buy it. If the tale was about a Guzzi, then sure, but not a Beemer. The standard wear items, even today, even for the old bikes, are not that hard to find. More expensive than Japanese bike parts, sure. Then again, try to get parts, or service, from your local Japanese motorcycle dealer for a bike more than 10 years old.

Steve

 

[Aughtsix]

For the Touring class the K1200S has raised the BAR....for the Hyper/Sport class....Busa, 12R, 1100XX....it does not.

Read the "Ride Report" at bmwk1200s.com....there's a link in a previous post. This is from a long time BMW rider and owner, although he likes the bike alot, its not the "BUSA KILLER" that the magazines talk about.

It's all HYPE....as to the power and speed of this machine.

It's not all about power and speed, it's about consummate performance.

But that's okay, BA, stay in denial if that's where you're comfortable.

The K12S - a Touring Class bike?? Gee, look out GoldWing and K12LT...

Steve

 

[BA BUSA]

For the Touring class the K1200S has raised the BAR....for the Hyper/Sport class....Busa, 12R, 1100XX....it does not.

Read the "Ride Report" at bmwk1200s.com....there's a link in a previous post. This is from a long time BMW rider and owner, although he likes the bike alot, its not the "BUSA KILLER" that the magazines talk about.

It's all HYPE....as to the power and speed of this machine.

It's not all about power and speed, it's about consummate performance.  

But that's okay, BA, stay in denial if that's where you're comfortable.  

The K12S - a Touring Class bike??  Gee, look out GoldWing and K12LT...  

 

Steve

Go read the Ride Report. And will they recall these bikes too?, I hope somebody will raise the bar....