Jeremy112113
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Okay, I'll do this in a few and report back. Thanks!
Clutch Slipping After Oil Change?
- Thread starter Jeremy112113
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Jeremy112113
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So I took the front sprocket cover off and the push rod came with it. When I squeezed the clutch the cylinder pushed out, but did not return.
Is this normal? Pictures below:
Jeremy112113
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I did some searching and the slave cylinder should return and kind of go in and out whenever you pull the lever. I saw where there is a cable conversion, has anyone tried this? Seems interesting, what are everyone's thoughts?
@Jeremy112113
...and ...
Clutch slipping after brock's clutch mod | General Bike Related Topics
Put clutch slave support bracket on, still slipping, pulled apart clutch an put back together same thing . I'm going to bleed clutch slave. I did notice that when I put the plunger back into the hub it would not go all the way in. Ihad to release the hydraulic pressure on the slave cylinder...
I believe that's @SSGT_B 's pic
Berlin Germany
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@Jeremy112113
the issues started with replacing the friction plates etc.?
did you put in the last friction one tooth turned to RH?
this can cause your issue .
and - sounds very strange / weird / almost absurd
but did you watch the steels very punctilious when putting in?
they are punched out during production and by that you can feel at the teeth of the steels rounded corners from the one side and sharp corners from the opposit side.
i personally allways watch strongly that the steels are put in in the same direction - all! sharp sides inside or all! outside - i never mix that direction, caused by issues at my fj1200 (10 or more years ago) while changing these directions while putting in.
sometimes - not always and very seldom - this "mix" can cause clutch sliding.
btw - the clutches of the haya and fj1200 look and work 100% equal .
and - i personally only use oil with special motorcycle approval - car/truck etc. oils have additives who can cause cause clutch sliding in our bikes
because cars etc. have no "oil bathed clutches" like our bikes.
if you change now to bike´s oil
replace the car oil bathed frictions by new ones,
because i think the frictions suck the oil a little bit and the clutch sliding won´t go without a replacement.
the issues started with replacing the friction plates etc.?
did you put in the last friction one tooth turned to RH?
this can cause your issue .
and - sounds very strange / weird / almost absurd
but did you watch the steels very punctilious when putting in?
they are punched out during production and by that you can feel at the teeth of the steels rounded corners from the one side and sharp corners from the opposit side.
i personally allways watch strongly that the steels are put in in the same direction - all! sharp sides inside or all! outside - i never mix that direction, caused by issues at my fj1200 (10 or more years ago) while changing these directions while putting in.
sometimes - not always and very seldom - this "mix" can cause clutch sliding.
btw - the clutches of the haya and fj1200 look and work 100% equal .
and - i personally only use oil with special motorcycle approval - car/truck etc. oils have additives who can cause cause clutch sliding in our bikes
because cars etc. have no "oil bathed clutches" like our bikes.
if you change now to bike´s oil
replace the car oil bathed frictions by new ones,
because i think the frictions suck the oil a little bit and the clutch sliding won´t go without a replacement.
As mentioned, have the rounded edges of the steels facing in per Suzuki instructions. The slave cylinder piston has no provision to return by itself, the force of the clutch pushes it back in. I don't recommend pulling the lever when the cover is off, you can push the piston past where it normally goes and gum up the works and/or bend the retaining plate. Personally if the bike has some miles I would pull the cylinder apart and clean everything up. Another thing that can cause problems is if the master cylinder isn't bleeding back properly, thereby keeping pressure on the slave cylinder. This can be caused by junk in the system or something that keeps the lever from returning all the way such as mis-adjustment or even cheap levers. I run car oil, but not energy conserving as mentioned. You can change oil without changing the fibers, no problem.
Jeremy112113
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I haven't done this, but considering I used to be a machinist for a couple of years, I should have a pair of these lol. My clutch cover is still off, and when my pair comes in I'll measure them.@Jeremy112113
...and ...
View attachment 1614783Clutch slipping after brock's clutch mod | General Bike Related Topics
Put clutch slave support bracket on, still slipping, pulled apart clutch an put back together same thing . I'm going to bleed clutch slave. I did notice that when I put the plunger back into the hub it would not go all the way in. Ihad to release the hydraulic pressure on the slave cylinder...www.hayabusa.org
I believe that's @SSGT_B 's pic
Jeremy112113
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Okay, I'll do this when I get home today. As mentioned, when I did overhaul my master cylinder a couple years ago, I think I may have filled the brake fluid close to the top. The fluid that was in it was gray, but I don't recall ever having the hose off (like it is now) and completely draining the system. I simply bled it with a mighty vac to get the air out. My levers are stock by the way. The T6 oil doesn't list resource conserving or energy conserving, that part of the circle label is blank.
Typically it is not going to be an oil problem if others are using the exact oil with success. I have seen formulation changes that make a successful oil not work anymore (Mobil-1 car oil). Did you disassemble the slave cylinder? Flushing plenty of fluid through is a good idea, and you've likely done it already but after the slave cylinder cleaning you'll be doing it again. Berlin mentioned making sure the last plate is rotated from the rest of them.
Jeremy112113
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I measured stack height today, and four pointed 1.98 on all four points. Considering it's hard to take a picture with oily hands and a caliper, pic below for proof. The caliper does have a tolerance of +/-.01. I'm still waiting for my new slave cylinder to come in. With some research, my symptoms seem to be pointing to having a bent shift fork.@Jeremy112113
...and ...
View attachment 1614783Clutch slipping after brock's clutch mod | General Bike Related Topics
Put clutch slave support bracket on, still slipping, pulled apart clutch an put back together same thing . I'm going to bleed clutch slave. I did notice that when I put the plunger back into the hub it would not go all the way in. Ihad to release the hydraulic pressure on the slave cylinder...
I believe that's @SSGT_B 's pic
Jeremy112113
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When my new slave cylinder comes in, I'll flush the clutch line (something I didn't do when I overhauled the m/c a couple years back) and bleed the system once back together. Thanks for the post, it really cleared up how the slave cylinder operates
Kevin Jones
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Trash develops in the slave, its deterioration of the rubber line and piston seals. It is likely built up and you probably don't have significant pressure in the line. Do yourself a favor and replace the slave seals when you pop it out (with compressed air into the bleeder tube). Do not let that piston go flying across the garage and get scarred. Do not take a pair of vise grips and try to pull them out. When you get them out, you will see the trash and funk right there.
I usually tap it on the bench and it comes out. Right or wrong, I clean up the bore with some steel wool. The finer the better. I actually haven't changed the seals but probably should get a set on hand.
Kevin Jones
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Dennis I cant ever seem to get the old seals to reseat properly no matter how I prep them once I get them out. Luck isn't something I find often. And sometimes I think that piston gets distorted, though i never checked em with a gauge for out of round i was sure of it. At least at the time
Berlin Germany
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@Jeremy112113
you started with clutch sliding probs.
now youre talking about bent shift fork(s) ?
a bent fork can never cause clutch sliding.
and air bubbles in the master/slave system also can´t cause sliding.
they cause very hard up to impossible shifting (and if too long time at last bent forks)
weird and very seldom but still possible:
too much dot-fluid in this system can!!! (no must) cause the sliding in deed,
how?
if you filled up the masters reservoir too much / up to the top edge or very just below it
the dot expands when warming, this exp. volume has no space to expand into the reservoir
and puts by that some pressure onto the slave´s piston which makes a bit clutch loosening ==> sliding - as if you pull the lever a very little bit.
you started with clutch sliding probs.
now youre talking about bent shift fork(s) ?
a bent fork can never cause clutch sliding.
and air bubbles in the master/slave system also can´t cause sliding.
they cause very hard up to impossible shifting (and if too long time at last bent forks)
weird and very seldom but still possible:
too much dot-fluid in this system can!!! (no must) cause the sliding in deed,
how?
if you filled up the masters reservoir too much / up to the top edge or very just below it
the dot expands when warming, this exp. volume has no space to expand into the reservoir
and puts by that some pressure onto the slave´s piston which makes a bit clutch loosening ==> sliding - as if you pull the lever a very little bit.
Jeremy112113
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Update: my new slave cylinder came in today and it definitely has a nice 'spring' to it when pressed. I flushed the line, installed the slave cylinder, filled the reservoir with new Dot4 fluid, and bled the air out of the system. Whenever I pull in the clutch now, it definitely has more of a 'spring' to it on the release. I'm waiting until tomorrow morning to do a test ride because I'm waiting for the blue threadlocker on the clutch spring bolts to set for 24 hours. Sorry about the delay on an update, the company I'm working for was moving everyone to remote and things have been hectic due to Covid-19. I hope you all are staying safe out there, healthy, and still employed. The way some of these companies are doing people is dirty. Pic below of the mess I've created in my garage.
Jeremy112113
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I went for a ride this morning, made sure the bike was to operating temps and was shifted through all gears. I tried to recreate the issue I was having and it would not recreate. I'm very excited considering now, I don't actually have to drop my motor and take out the transmission. The rpm range that I mentioned in my initial post rose through smoothly at WOT in gear 2,3,4,5,6. I believe my issue was, as others have mentioned, hydraulic clutch related. Emptying the line, using new fluid, bleeding the line, not overfilling the reservoir, and overhauling (in this case, bought new) the slave cylinder. I also refilled the oil lost when removing the clutch cover with actual motorcycle oil (roughly 1QT). Obviously this, as other pointed out, more than likely didn't have an effect on this situation. With this, I appreciate all the input from everyone as well as the source of this entire forum. THANK YOU! Pictures of the bike below
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