Climate change, true or false



WHat is your opinion about humans affecting the climate

  • I am concerned about it

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • I think it is a hoax

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • I am indecisive, don't know

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • I think the world should intervene urgently and not spoil the planet for our grand children

    Votes: 12 46.2%
  • Economics are more important than climate control, don't worry about this it is insignificant.

    Votes: 1 3.8%

  • Total voters
    26

jellyrug

Donating Member
Registered
What do folks here think about climate change? Is it insignificant, we need no action, or is it something which should be addressed with urgency?

Vote on the poll.

Below is a link from NASA, I comment on the 400,000 year graph:

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

No emotions, no gut feel, no opinion, just a pure mathematical analysis from me says the following:

1.) Mother earth seems to manage a pattern which can be related to SPC (Statistical Process Control, how us Engineers automate a process to run between upper and lower tolerance limits. Like traction control on your bike, or speed control in your car, as two examples of millions)

2.) Based on the above, for almost 400,000 years (Samples available 800,000 years back) she had CO2 levels in control between 180 lower limt and 280 upper limit ppm. (parts per million)

3.) In process control we would use a closed loop PID (Potential Integral and Derivative) to manage that. Mother earth seems to have done that for most of the 400,000 years shown in the graph, within a range of 100ppm by controling vegetation and volcanic/lightning/burn activity. The process was pretty much in control until 1950. We can assume that mother nature when supplying too much oxygen made the planet more flamable and when supplying too much CO2 accelerated vegetation growth. (Obviously that could be totally wrong, I am just digging for how she managed to accomplish that control. I am just a simple Engineer, not a climatologist, hence my math approach)

4.) The Industrial revolution started in 1760 and from 1950 onwards we see the graph climbing exponentially. Without any emotion, applying pure SPC mathematics the graph tells us that that the range of 100ppm is no longer valid, the upper limit has been exceeded. In process control it means we have lost control.

5.) In process control, this would be a situation where we made and shipped 399,950 widgets in specification, and the last 50 widgets are out of specification and the scrap rate is growing exponentially. The question would be, when do we stop the production line?
 

ali123

Banned
What do folks here think about climate change? Is it insignificant, we need no action, or is it something which should be addressed with urgency?

Vote on the poll.

Below is a link from NASA, I comment on the 400,000 year graph:

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

No emotions, no gut feel, no opinion, just a pure mathematical analysis from me says the following:

1.) Mother earth seems to manage a pattern which can be related to SPC (Statistical Process Control, how us Engineers automate a process to run between upper and lower tolerance limits. Like traction control on your bike, or speed control in your car, as two examples of millions)

2.) Based on the above, for almost 400,000 years (Samples available 800,000 years back) she had CO2 levels in control between 180 lower limt and 280 upper limit ppm. (parts per million)

3.) In process control we would use a closed loop PID (Potential Integral and Derivative) to manage that. Mother earth seems to have done that for most of the 400,000 years shown in the graph, within a range of 100ppm by controling vegetation and volcanic/lightning/burn activity. The process was pretty much in control until 1950. We can assume that mother nature when supplying too much oxygen made the planet more flamable and when supplying too much CO2 accelerated vegetation growth. (Obviously that could be totally wrong, I am just digging for how she managed to accomplish that control. I am just a simple Engineer, not a climatologist, hence my math approach)

4.) The Industrial revolution started in 1760 and from 1950 onwards we see the graph climbing exponentially. Without any emotion, applying pure SPC mathematics the graph tells us that that the range of 100ppm is no longer valid, the upper limit has been exceeded. In process control it means we have lost control.

5.) In process control, this would be a situation where we made and shipped 399,950 widgets in specification, and the last 50 widgets are out of specification and the scrap rate is growing exponentially. The question would be, when do we stop the production line?
I think when mother nature has had enough.... she will shake us off like the fleas we are. Humans aren't nearly as important as we think we are.
 

Yellow09

Registered
I spend time watching National Geographic and the like. How much hydrocarbons does a volcano spew? How many volcanoes were active years ago compared to now?

I'm more concerned about how much plastic is floating around in the oceans, how many toxic chemicals developing countries are dumping, how many animal habitats are being cleared than how much CO2 is being developed.
 

jellyrug

Donating Member
Registered
I spend time watching National Geographic and the like. How much hydrocarbons does a volcano spew? How many volcanoes were active years ago compared to now?

I'm more concerned about how much plastic is floating around in the oceans, how many toxic chemicals developing countries are dumping, how many animal habitats are being cleared than how much CO2 is being developed.
Have to agree to that. http://fortune.com/2015/10/01/ocean-plastic-pollution/

I have visited a number of desolute beaches around the world, Middle East and one between Hawai and New Zealand where people hardly ever go. So they do not get cleaned up. The trash was frightening, from tires, to old washing machines, to plastic all over the place, all washed up from the ocean.
 

Yellow09

Registered
Have to agree to that. http://fortune.com/2015/10/01/ocean-plastic-pollution/

I have visited a number of desolute beaches around the world, Middle East and one between Hawai and New Zealand where people hardly ever go. So they do not get cleaned up. The trash was frightening, from tires, to old washing machines, to plastic all over the place, all washed up from the ocean.
I've seen that on beaches as well, made me sick to look at it and think of how much
more is out there.
Years ago friends and I walked 15 or so miles into what we thought was pristine forest in the middle of nowhere only to find trash bags.

Human beings are messy and destructive for the most part.
 

Dougyp333

Registered
What do folks here think about climate change? Is it insignificant, we need no action, or is it something which should be addressed with urgency?

Vote on the poll.

Below is a link from NASA, I comment on the 400,000 year graph:

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

No emotions, no gut feel, no opinion, just a pure mathematical analysis from me says the following:

1.) Mother earth seems to manage a pattern which can be related to SPC (Statistical Process Control, how us Engineers automate a process to run between upper and lower tolerance limits. Like traction control on your bike, or speed control in your car, as two examples of millions)

2.) Based on the above, for almost 400,000 years (Samples available 800,000 years back) she had CO2 levels in control between 180 lower limt and 280 upper limit ppm. (parts per million)

3.) In process control we would use a closed loop PID (Potential Integral and Derivative) to manage that. Mother earth seems to have done that for most of the 400,000 years shown in the graph, within a range of 100ppm by controling vegetation and volcanic/lightning/burn activity. The process was pretty much in control until 1950. We can assume that mother nature when supplying too much oxygen made the planet more flamable and when supplying too much CO2 accelerated vegetation growth. (Obviously that could be totally wrong, I am just digging for how she managed to accomplish that control. I am just a simple Engineer, not a climatologist, hence my math approach)

4.) The Industrial revolution started in 1760 and from 1950 onwards we see the graph climbing exponentially. Without any emotion, applying pure SPC mathematics the graph tells us that that the range of 100ppm is no longer valid, the upper limit has been exceeded. In process control it means we have lost control.

5.) In process control, this would be a situation where we made and shipped 399,950 widgets in specification, and the last 50 widgets are out of specification and the scrap rate is growing exponentially. The question would be, when do we stop the production line?
Jelly,
This should be an interesting topic. I look forward to the debate. A couple things of note. NASA has over the last few years "modified" their data to align with the global warming crowd Check out Tony Heller on the U-tube.

As always follow the money, research grants and Government tax schemes, before you make a judgment.

Now for my personal thoughts based on a fair bit of reading and a bit of common sense, if there is such a thing. Man has had a huge impact on the planet Earth, no one can deny this. We have added many chemicals, some natural some not, to the environment. The only question should be: is it in our (humans) best interest to spend vast quantities of our resources on a "problem", climate change, That may or may not cause us problems in the future?

Lets be honest Ali is most likely right we will be wiped out by a plague, asteroid, volcano, or something else out of our control. Maybe it will be some genetic experiment gone horribly wrong:super:
 

Dougyp333

Registered
One more thing. Some people will talk about scientific consensus as if it makes the science right. Just remember that at one point in time everyone thought the earth was flat and that the sun rotated around us. Science by it's nature is not settled until a hypothesis is proven to be correct.
 

Kiwi Rider

Registered
Yes, the climate changes, that is the nature of this world circling a Sun in an eliptical orbit and influenced by the Sun, AND influenced by objects, large objects coming into our Solar System on long eliptical orbits thousands of years in the making.
I do not believe the scam of 'man induced/created climate change'.
That is brought down upon us by the ruling elite of this world. To enact THEIR long term agenda and to benefit THEM, not us, the cattle class.
 

Lodi

Registered
I’d say reality is somewhere between “man has no effect” and “man is destroying the planet.”
Humans have caused many environmental disasters that were supposed to have caused destruction so severe that areas would never be the same, yet Mother Nature shows us we underestimate her power to recover. Kind of hard to ignore the pollution we create a claim we have zero impact though. In the end, I believe Mother Nature is the more powerful force, but we should still be good stewards of the environment while we’re here.
 

justintime2

What's your story?
Donating Member
Registered
We’re talking about close to a million years in your example, let’s put this in terms of money so we have a sense of scale/perspective to measure this.

You owe a million dollars, have no job and are concerned about your $50 Costco membership fee?!
 

Mr Brown

Registered
Nothing to see here and nothing new, go about your life, be responsible with what you have and what you do and let the heretics separate someone else from their money and freedoms with the sky is falling crap.

Wash, rinse, repeat climate non-sense link...
If everyone, corporate entities included, (because they're people too dontchaknow) would follow this, we wouldn't be in the shape we are in.
Call it sky is falling crap if you will, but I think that a cleaner environment is better than an unclean one, and if it means that some people have to remove some zeros from the end of their bank accounts to achieve it, I can live with that.
 

Dougyp333

Registered
If everyone, corporate entities included, (because they're people too dontchaknow) would follow this, we wouldn't be in the shape we are in.
Call it sky is falling crap if you will, but I think that a cleaner environment is better than an unclean one, and if it means that some people have to remove some zeros from the end of their bank accounts to achieve it, I can live with that.
I don't think anyone would argue against a cleaner environment but the policies most of the warming crowd are putting forward would economically destroy our country.
 

Mr Brown

Registered
I don't think anyone would argue against a cleaner environment but the policies most of the warming crowd are putting forward would economically destroy our country.
Yet people do argue against it, every day and in exactly the terms that you stated, economy vs environment framed as opposite sides of an issue.
If that were true, (and honestly I think that economic destruction is a bit of a reach, sure it would require a reboot of the fossil fuel based economy, and that would create ruin for many, but new fortunes would rise from the ashes I think....) then it comes down to which people find more important, economy or environment.
 

jellyrug

Donating Member
Registered
Yet people do argue against it, every day and in exactly the terms that you stated, economy vs environment framed as opposite sides of an issue.
If that were true, (and honestly I think that economic destruction is a bit of a reach, sure it would require a reboot of the fossil fuel based economy, and that would create ruin for many, but new fortunes would rise from the ashes I think....) then it comes down to which people find more important, economy or environment.
Some countries are getting a lot closer to a clean environment with a totally different lifestyle and no economic impact. Three years ago I did a six month assignment in Lubeck, Northern Germany. Sixty five percent of the population did not own cars. There are shopping stores everywhere, meaning anything one needs to purchase was within walking distance. Homes have tiny refrigerators, there is no need to store much, with a convenience store around the block. There are bicycles everywhere.

Any significant travel is by train, with a 10 minute walk to the nearest station.

A lot of my colleagues, (Germans) use to complement the US, a country of opportunity, but they hated the fact that one needs a car to go almost anywhere.

I guess one can do that in NYC as well, but Lubeck is a tiny little town in comparison.
 

ali123

Banned
Yes, the climate changes, that is the nature of this world circling a Sun in an eliptical orbit and influenced by the Sun, AND influenced by objects, large objects coming into our Solar System on long eliptical orbits thousands of years in the making.
I do not believe the scam of 'man induced/created climate change'.
That is brought down upon us by the ruling elite of this world. To enact THEIR long term agenda and to benefit THEM, not us, the cattle class.
2 words kiwi... FREE MASON
 

fallenarch

THE SLOW RIDER
Registered
The climate is changing, you can not dispute this except by spouting mindless garbage. Man has definitely played a role in it, again hard to argue this either. But whether or not stopping the pollution now will stop the cycle of warming that is already in progress is questionable.
 

ali123

Banned
The climate is changing, you can not dispute this except by spouting mindless garbage. Man has definitely played a role in it, again hard to argue this either. But whether or not stopping the pollution now will stop the cycle of warming that is already in progress is questionable.
yes... and 40 years ago "scientists" were warning that we were gonna run out of crude oil...……. jesus Christ looks after his mistress.
 


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