Chilling perspective. Overwhelm the system **Political**

[StromBusa]

WAYNE ALLYN ROOT: Overwhelm the system


WAYNE ALLYN ROOT
Barack Obama is no fool. He is not incompetent. To the contrary, he is brilliant. He knows exactly what he's doing. He is purposely overwhelming the U.S. economy to create systemic failure, economic crisis and social chaos -- thereby destroying capitalism and our country from within.

Barack Obama is my college classmate (Columbia University, class of '83). As Glenn Beck correctly predicted from day one, Obama is following the plan of Cloward & Piven, two professors at Columbia University. They outlined a plan to socialize America by overwhelming the system with government spending and entitlement demands. Add up the clues below. Taken individually they're alarming. Taken as a whole, it is a brilliant, Machiavellian game plan to turn the United States into a socialist/Marxist state with a permanent majority that desperately needs government for survival ... and can be counted on to always vote for bigger government. Why not? They have no responsibility to pay for it.

-- Universal health care. The health care bill had very little to do with health care.It had everything to do with unionizing millions of hospital and health care workers, as well as adding 15,000 to 20,000 new IRS agents (who will join government employee unions). Obama doesn't care that giving free health care to 30 million Americans will add trillions to the national debt. What he does care about is that it cements the dependence of those 30 million voters to Democrats and big government. Who but a socialist revolutionary would pass this reckless spending bill in the middle of a depression?

-- Cap and trade. Like health care legislation having nothing to do with health care, cap and trade has nothing to do with global warming. It has everything to do with redistribution of income, government control of the economy and a criminal payoff to Obama's biggest contributors. Those powerful and wealthy unions and contributors (like GE, which owns NBC, MSNBC and CNBC) can then be counted on to support everything Obama wants. They will kick-back hundreds of millions of dollars in contributions to Obama and the Democratic Party to keep them in power. The bonus is that all the new taxes on Americans with bigger cars, bigger homes and businesses helps Obama "spread the wealth around."

-- Make Puerto Rico a state. Why? Who's asking for a 51st state? Who's asking for millions of new welfare recipients and government entitlement addicts in the middle of a depression?Certainly not American taxpayers. But this has been Obama's plan all along. His goal is to add two new Democrat senators, five Democrat congressman and a million loyal Democratic voters who are dependent on big government.

-- Legalize 12 million illegal immigrants. Just giving these 12 million potential new citizens free health care alone could overwhelm the system and bankrupt America. But it adds 12 million reliable new Democrat voters who can be counted on to support big government.Add another few trillion dollars in welfare, aid to dependent children, food stamps, free medical, education, tax credits for the poor, and eventually Social Security.

-- Stimulus and bailouts. Where did all that money go? It went to Democrat contributors, organizations (ACORN), and unions -- including billions of dollars to save or create jobs of government employees across the country. It went to save GM and Chrysler so that their employees could keep paying union dues. It went to AIG so that Goldman Sachs could be bailed out (after giving Obama almost $1 million in contributions). A staggering $125 billion went to teachers (thereby protecting their union dues). All those public employees will vote loyally Democrat to protect their bloated salaries and pensions that are bankrupting America. The country goes broke, future generations face a bleak future, but Obama, the Democrat Party, government, and the unions grow more powerful. The ends justify the means.

-- Raise taxes on small business owners, high-income earners, and job creators. Put the entire burden on only the top 20 percent of taxpayers, redistribute the income, punish success, and reward those who did nothing to deserve it (except vote for Obama). Reagan wanted to dramatically cut taxes in order to starve the government. Obama wants to dramatically raise taxes to starve his political opposition.

With the acts outlined above, Obama and his regime have created a vast and rapidly expanding constituency of voters dependent on big government; a vast privileged class of public employees who work for big government; and a government dedicated to destroying capitalism and installing themselves as socialist rulers by overwhelming the system.

Add it up and you've got the perfect Marxist scheme -- all devised by my Columbia University college classmate Barack Obama using the Cloward and Piven Plan.

 

[jwest]

and if you are a 4 star general and say things against the president and others you get to resign...funny when you speak the truth and they dont like it...lol

 

[skydivr]

McCrystal didn't resign, he was relieved (and as a fmr soldier, i unfortunatly agree that was the only choice). Strombusa is spot on.

 

[Jay Willie]

...and where is the revolutionary in the midst of all this? Soon (if not already) it will literally be brother against brother, etc. especially for those who are trying to protect a lifestyle contrary to those whose lifestyle isn't dependent on the ever enlarging socialists reform campaign.

"Just cause yourself to be seen as the god who provides everything to keep them fat and happy and they will eventually pledge their souls to you for their survival and eliminate all others who appear to stand in the way."

and forget is the epitaph of society. All this crap comes from somewhere and it goes to someplace for some reason.

Suddenly this coffee doesn't smell like coffee anymore...(as in "Wake up...")

...never mind...

 

[Thyg0d]

If you think that's socialistic (sp?) you ain't seen nothing yet...
The US is so right wing our right wing parties looks like communists..

Not saying either one is better than the other though!

I just see all the differences..
You scream your heart out when you get public health care..
In the EU everybody has it and in Sweden it wasn't allowed with a private health insurance until like 10 yrs ago..
Everybody, including illegal aliens have the rights to get ER treatment, you pay $25 if you have a cold or if you get a hearttransplant.
Does it suck to pay 35% income tax (depends on salary, goes from 26-55%), 25% VAT on everything you buy...Except any sort of energy (gas/electricity) where we actually pay VAT on the energy tax..
YOU BET!
Does it feel nice to know that everybody gets healthcare when they need, college is free for everybody, every human has the same chance to get a good life and it's only their choices in life that stop them..
YOU BET!

So no matter what Obama does, you'll never get to the EU or Sweden levels!
Again, if that's a good or bad thing is up for each and everyone..
A part of me want to decide for myself and another part think it's nice to have everything provided for me..

Always voted for the right wing parties, just so you know..
Don't like the left wing ideas of all subsidising people who don't feel like working
and stuff like that..
The right wing parties, yeah we've got 4 to the right and 3 to the left, is trying to change Sweden to be a little more like the US and don't think the government should own large companies and that you should be able to make more choices and most important, you should be able to keep more of your salary.

On a side note, I think the general EU man/woman think Obama is doing a good job
but I can understand that some of you guys see it differently since you're used to
your system..

 

[Vonderbach]

On a side note, I think the general EU man/woman think Obama is doing a good job
but I can understand that some of you guys see it differently since you're used to
your system..

With all due respect, I personally don't care what anyone outside of this country thinks of Obama. That's why we're in such trouble now, because Obama wants to appeal to the world, not his constituents. Little does he know that most of the world is laughing at him now. And now we're getting economic lessons from Germany.....that's just sad.

 

[Thyg0d]

With all due respect, I personally don't care what anyone outside of this country thinks of Obama. That's why we're in such trouble now, because Obama wants to appeal to the world, not his constituents. Little does he know that most of the world is laughing at him now. And now we're getting economic lessons from Germany.....that's just sad.

Don't get mad, I just wanted to show you guys how another part of the world sees things..

Do you care to explain to a foreigner what you think Obama is doin' wrong?
I'm just interested to get your views on it 'cause what we see and you see is probably a bit different..

The healthcare system change seems like a good idea from my point of view
but then again, I'm used to it so I have a hard time to see the downside with all humans beeing treated as equals.. It usually lessens the gap between different social groups...

The echonomic/housing situation, isn't that due to the fact that the banks lended to much money to people that couldn't afford it and told them that they could?

From reading that article it seems to me that Germany is a bit selfish to say the least but as mentioned in the article they do had
a babyboom in the late 40's that are about to retire now and that's going to cost a fortune..
Here in Sweden they had to change the whole pension system so it would be able to handle the massive retirements we have now and
will have for a few yrs..

As mentioned before, I'm just interested in seeing it from your point of view..
Not trying to flame any of your ideas..

 

[Vonderbach]

Don't get mad, I just wanted to show you guys how another part of the world sees things..

I'm not mad at all....that's why I said "with all due respect." It was meant literally.

Do you care to explain to a foreigner what you think Obama is doin' wrong?
I'm just interested to get your views on it 'cause what we see and you see is probably a bit different..

Any redistribution of wealth, be it health care, unfair taxation, social programs, etc are deemed by me to be a travesty of justice. The United States is one of the few countries that was designed to allow for the free flow of economic trade without interference from government. Sadly, since the 1930's, the government has begun to ignore their directions from the Constitution and began imposing new laws on the people that unfairly redistribute wealth to the unearned. I am opposed to any government agency taking my hard earned money and using it to fund the lifestyle of a person that refuses to work.

 

[Snakeeyes]

so you think with the united health care is making it equal for all human beings?

I'm sorry but 3/4 if not more that want it are poor, lazy people that just want to live off the government. people who don't even pay taxes.

the banking situation was due to people losing their jobs, of course the bank said they could afford it when they DID have a nice paying job but lost it due to economy.

that is mostly why people are pissed because we don't want our hard EARNED money being taxed more to compensate for lazy,illegal people...

 

[Thyg0d]

I'm not mad at all....that's why I said "with all due respect." It was meant literally.

Any redistribution of wealth, be it health care, unfair taxation, social programs, etc are deemed by me to be a travesty of justice. The United States is one of the few countries that was designed to allow for the free flow of economic trade without interference from government. Sadly, since the 1930's, the government has begun to ignore their directions from the Constitution and began imposing new laws on the people that unfairly redistribute wealth to the unearned. I am opposed to any government agency taking my hard earned money and using it to fund the lifestyle of a person that refuses to work.

Great! Wasn't really sure..
Not that good at english as I would want to..

I definitely see you point and agree to a large majority of it..
Of course you don't want to give you hard earned cash to someone that
doesn't deserve it or just take advantage of the system..
Isn't that something that the government should take care of with laws??

Over here we have a government controlled employment agency that decides who get unemployment cash and who don't. And we only get it for ~1½ yrs. And you'll have to prove that you have applied for x jobs every week.
They do call to the employers and ask if we have applied for that job!
The laws require us to move to another part of the country if there aren't any jobs available where we live. If you haven't gotten a job in that time or if you want you either go to school or some jobprogram to learn a new trade..
If you choose not to do anything at all you'll get kicked out and the only thing left is welfare which is just above surviving limits.. ~$550/month.. And that's very hard controlled.. That's something you really don't want to use over here..
Perhaps not appliable in the US since you guys are a FEW more than we are.. (we're just 9.2 million in Sweden)

of course there are a few using the system 'cause they don't want to work but it's so few it's hardly noticeable..

We do have a lots of immigrants, last year alone we gave Swedish citizenship to 89k immigrants which do cost us a h*ll of alot of cash but we do have to help..

so you think with the united health care is making it equal for all human beings?

I'm sorry but 3/4 if not more that want it are poor, lazy people that just want to live off the government. people who don't even pay taxes.

the banking situation was due to people losing their jobs, of course the bank said they could afford it when they DID have a nice paying job but lost it due to economy.

that is mostly why people are pissed because we don't want our hard EARNED money being taxed more to compensate for lazy,illegal people...

If everyone has the same chance to get the health care they need isn't that equal? What would be equal then?? When CNN or some US TV network shows a story about your healthcare system it's usually when someone got an illness of some sort just to figure out that oooops, sorry you insurance doesn't cover this or that and insurance agents getting bonuses for denying people healthcare and stuff..
Just so you know where my perseption of the US healtcare system comes from.. If I had to hassle with the insurance company about my healthcare as much as I do with my car/bike/home insurance when ever something happens I'd probably blow up an insurance company a year..

Of course the poor want it, that's the only way they have to get health care in the US.. except a few free hospitals or somethin.. From what I've heard!!
As stated ten times before, I'm trying to learn..

About the banks, my bad.. I got the idea that the bankside crashed first but they obviously didn't, people lost their jobs, couldn't pay and the banks got surprised...

I understand that you don't want your money to go to lazy people, who wants that.. But do you really think everybody who's sick, unemployed and so on just sits at home and thinks, "this is nice, I get a little cash every month to do nothing".. Don't you think they'd rather go to work and make a little more cash? Perhaps getting some sort of health care?

Im not sure, perhaps I'm to trusting but I think people want to work, work usually makes people feel important, gets them a good self-eestem (sp?)..
Right now our government has a policy that everybody should work..
The more who work the more taxes the government gets and the better the system gets.. Better healthcare, schools, care for the elderly and so on..
So they've cut down on government subsidies to help stimulate employment by lowering the taxes for everybody who works, social costs for companies and a much harder enviroment for those who don't. Which has caused sever headlines in the newspapers and all but in the end it works better... Our economy has never been better..
Eventhough we pay a lot in taxes, we have pretty much the same living standards as you and we still have free healthcare, free schools, 1½ year paid maternity leave and so on..

 

[Takeuon]

And yet ANOTHER anti-Obama thread.

Wish I had a face palm pic to add in here~

 

[Jay Willie]

I guess I'm re-thinking my response to this thread. When I comment about 'revolutionaries', the definition would be those who are equipped to stand up for change (and I don't mean lose change) at what ever the cost. My Judeo Christian experience (simmer down now, not lookin' to go there) as well as my non-traditional study of world history come together in a somewhat broader view of government than most.

It seems the United States of America was founded on social and economic principles I quite honestly find self-depricating. We are traditionally taught that religious freedom was the main motivator for coming to America and establishing a rule separate from the oppressions of most world leaders of the day. A closer look would reveal that the oppressions of tight fisted, then known world leaders lead to extreme living conditions and also that tight fisted service to the state through the entity called church/religion was expected from most, if not all, peoples. Thus people wanted to be 'free' of the oppressive social decision making processes of the government and also have the ability to serve God (however you choose to define Him) in accordance to a personal belief founded on an actual relationship not dictated by leadership motivated with the desire to control the 'masses' (pun intended and I apologize ahead of time to my Catholic and Muslim friends.)

Trouble is, once intoxicated with the incredible fertility and seeming endless resources of the land called America, the leadership for this new land initiated an edict for the new world disguised as an 'order from God' to justify pillaging this new land as a means of 'civilizing and bringing a just style of living to all people'.

Having at least said that, I am saying it stirs the ire in me to think that someone may limit/eliminate my choices in lifestyle based on my beliefs. But then again I can't help but think there is a final destiny in all this 'evolutional' change.

How can we salvage our country? Look into the past and talk to world leaders, investigate and compare societies that were self-governed (with very little republic, democratic or otherwise, intervention) and motivated through hearts influenced by a belief and relationship with an almighty Creator, and those societies who were ruled by men unbridled in their accountability to no other power but themselves. We'd have a long way to go and I'm not sure there's a people otherwise motivated to bring about the type of change necessary to ensure these freedoms again, at least not that I can see in my generation or the next.

So I apologize for 'gettin' my bowls in an uproar' over the actions of a man motivated by nothing else but his desire for more power. It's not hard to lose site of a goal that is so vaguely portrayed by anything else in our current society. The goal? Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly with your God...I think I read that somewhere before.

 

[Snakeeyes]

Great! Wasn't really sure..

I understand that you don't want your money to go to lazy people, who wants that.. But do you really think everybody who's sick, unemployed and so on just sits at home and thinks, "this is nice, I get a little cash every month to do nothing".. Don't you think they'd rather go to work and make a little more cash? Perhaps getting some sort of health care?

1.Yes they do...
2. when i say poor people, i'm referring to people who have 5-6 kids and sit at home on welfare that drive brand new cars that live in run down houses because having a brand new car with 20+ inch chrome wheels is more important than providing for your family.

3. trust me alot of people in america do not want to work...

also my friend i have no anger towards you, i respect people stating their opinion. whether right or wrong people began to look and realize what right...

 

[aussiekeeper]

McCrystal didn't resign, he was relieved (and as a fmr soldier, i unfortunatly agree that was the only choice). Strombusa is spot on.

McCrystal walked into the meeting with resignation statement in hand.................

 

[Thyg0d]

1.Yes they do...
2. when i say poor people, i'm referring to people who have 5-6 kids and sit at home on welfare that drive brand new cars that live in run down houses because having a brand new car with 20+ inch chrome wheels is more important than providing for your family.

3. trust me alot of people in america do not want to work...

also my friend i have no anger towards you, i respect people stating their opinion. whether right or wrong people began to look and realize what right...

Oookay.. gettin a fancy car isn't possible on swedish welfare.. If they do get a car at all they'll probably get lowered welfare.. When on wellfare they aren't even able to take a loan to buy the car, h3ll, they can even get a storecredit to buy a small tv..

If that's the case then I can understand that you're a "bit" irritated..
That should be taken care of by the "welfaredepartment"..
Still think they should get healthcare though, money shouldn't be an issue when it comes to saving peoples lives..

Sorry for spellingmistakes and stuff but I'm writing this from my cell while I sit and wait for the ferry to Finland to celibrate Midsummer!

Take care all!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[S4L]

I just see all the differences..
You scream your heart out when you get public health care..
In the EU everybody has it and in Sweden it wasn't allowed with a private health insurance until like 10 yrs ago..
Everybody, including illegal aliens have the rights to get ER treatment, you pay $25 if you have a cold or if you get a hearttransplant.
Does it suck to pay 35% income tax (depends on salary, goes from 26-55%), 25% VAT on everything you buy...Except any sort of energy (gas/electricity) where we actually pay VAT on the energy tax..
YOU BET!
Does it feel nice to know that everybody gets healthcare when they need, college is free for everybody, every human has the same chance to get a good life and it's only their choices in life that stop them..
YOU BET!

I really enjoy getting viewpoints from people of other countries. I think this puts things into perspective.

The issue that I have, and I'm sure many Americans would agree is that our system is truly corrupt.

In order to be placed on Medicaid or Medicare, which is a support system provided by the government, you have meet certain criteria. The most generalized perception of this criteria is that you have to be disabled or poor. This is a very VAGUE, VAGUE, VAGUE, VAGUE...VAGUE...VAGUE description of the requisities.

What ends up happening, generally, is that if you work...at all... You are disqualified for government support. So, for example, I just met a couple where one of them was recently diagnosed with End Stage Renal Disease (ESRD), which would require multiple surgeries, hospital admission, possible kidney transplant, and/or dialysis. This kind of treatment costs A LOT of money and this couple could barely support themselves, let alone six figure bills. They were denied Medicaid (no hope in Medicare).

Lets move on to case two, this is a nice gentlemen who is young, twenties, able-bodied, brand new baseball cap on, nice clothes, well dressed, new Droid phone. This nice young gentlemen comes into the ER, typically once a week, via Ambulance (~$500 per ride), for "Sickle Cell Crisis." This is a condition that is usually quite dibilitating, painful, but typically can be managed on an outpatient basis and many people live fairly normal lives with this disease process. This young man has medicaid and medicare, he does not work, he sees a pain management specialist for refills of Dilaudid pain medication and Fentanyl patches, and coming into the ER weekly which probably costs us tax payers....oh...

$500 ems ride
$600 for EKG x 2
~ I think... $1000 for IV catheter plus 1 liter NS
~ I have no idea how much for monitor of VS via cardiac monitor including frequent Vital sign checks (VS). To put this in perspective, > 3 sets of VS is categorized by the hospital as a Level of Care of 5 which is the highest level
IV pain medication - no idea how much that costs either...
Cab ride home provided by medicaid after ER visit.
Knowing he will be back next week for same exact treatment = $$ priceless

So here we have two different cases, one is a man that would like to work, can't because he feels like crap (If you ever have your kidneys fail on you, you will understand why). Poorly dressed, frustrated, no job, no money, no way to pay for medical bills. Will return to functioning well in society if proper medical care is provided. On the other hand we have a young, able gentlemen, well dressed, absolutely NO distress noted during any visit, no job, no care in the world, most often preoccupied with phone during visits, no motivation to take care of himself.

Who do you think should get the government's help?

Another case in point - I work for this hospital, if I were to have an accident (I have insurance and payed $100 a month for myself only and I am young and healthy) and were to be treated in the same manner as the young gentleman on Medicaid described above, I would have to pay two bills.

The first bill is the ~ $100 ER copay that is mandatory any time you go to the Emergency Room (ER).

The second bill is what I owe after the insurance pays there part - on average, for similar treatment as described above, that is $1500.

So lets review - You have Medicaid, you can be seen in the ER, get A+ treatment EACH AND EVERY TIME, leave via payed taxi cab, free care, free phone, no expenses AT ALL. No copays, not a dime out of your pocket.

I work 40 hours a week, pay $25 a week for health "insurance." Need Emergency treatment, have to pay ~ 1600 total out of pocket, and I get no free ride in an Ambulance OR CAB.. WTF

I hope I am conveying what is wrong with this picture. There is no motivation to better yourself, the government rewards you, no, REQUIRES you to be jobless in order to receive benefits from them. So...Fudge a little paperwork here, work under-the-table there....

With all due respect, I personally don't care what anyone outside of this country thinks of Obama. That's why we're in such trouble now, because Obama wants to appeal to the world, not his constituents. Little does he know that most of the world is laughing at him now. And now we're getting economic lessons from Germany.....that's just sad.

Because obviously we are handling our own economic issues so well So what if a country criticizes us, and by all means, please DO help us...

You know, we are facing a TRILLION dollar deficit?

Don't get mad, I just wanted to show you guys how another part of the world sees things..

Do you care to explain to a foreigner what you think Obama is doin' wrong?
I'm just interested to get your views on it 'cause what we see and you see is probably a bit different..

The healthcare system change seems like a good idea from my point of view
but then again, I'm used to it so I have a hard time to see the downside with all humans beeing treated as equals.. It usually lessens the gap between different social groups...

The echonomic/housing situation, isn't that due to the fact that the banks lended to much money to people that couldn't afford it and told them that they could?

From reading that article it seems to me that Germany is a bit selfish to say the least but as mentioned in the article they do had
a babyboom in the late 40's that are about to retire now and that's going to cost a fortune..
Here in Sweden they had to change the whole pension system so it would be able to handle the massive retirements we have now and
will have for a few yrs..

As mentioned before, I'm just interested in seeing it from your point of view..
Not trying to flame any of your ideas..

Most of the issues people have with Obama is that he is "Europeanizing" America, or in other words, creating a socialist economy. Which is an economy that hystory has shown to be doomed to fail (see France).

Americans seems to believe, by in large, that history has shown that when a free market is left alone with little government involvement, the economy and the people prosper. Is this true? Hardly.... There is no right or wrong answer, if you think that this form of free market economy is the Utopian society, please review late 1800's American society.

Great! Wasn't really sure..
Not that good at english as I would want to..

I definitely see you point and agree to a large majority of it..
Of course you don't want to give you hard earned cash to someone that
doesn't deserve it or just take advantage of the system..
Isn't that something that the government should take care of with laws??

Over here we have a government controlled employment agency that decides who get unemployment cash and who don't. And we only get it for ~1½ yrs. And you'll have to prove that you have applied for x jobs every week.
They do call to the employers and ask if we have applied for that job!
The laws require us to move to another part of the country if there aren't any jobs available where we live. If you haven't gotten a job in that time or if you want you either go to school or some jobprogram to learn a new trade..
If you choose not to do anything at all you'll get kicked out and the only thing left is welfare which is just above surviving limits.. ~$550/month.. And that's very hard controlled.. That's something you really don't want to use over here..
Perhaps not appliable in the US since you guys are a FEW more than we are.. (we're just 9.2 million in Sweden)

of course there are a few using the system 'cause they don't want to work but it's so few it's hardly noticeable..

We do have a lots of immigrants, last year alone we gave Swedish citizenship to 89k immigrants which do cost us a h*ll of alot of cash but we do have to help..



If everyone has the same chance to get the health care they need isn't that equal? What would be equal then?? When CNN or some US TV network shows a story about your healthcare system it's usually when someone got an illness of some sort just to figure out that oooops, sorry you insurance doesn't cover this or that and insurance agents getting bonuses for denying people healthcare and stuff..
Just so you know where my perseption of the US healtcare system comes from.. If I had to hassle with the insurance company about my healthcare as much as I do with my car/bike/home insurance when ever something happens I'd probably blow up an insurance company a year..

Of course the poor want it, that's the only way they have to get health care in the US.. except a few free hospitals or somethin.. From what I've heard!!
As stated ten times before, I'm trying to learn..

About the banks, my bad.. I got the idea that the bankside crashed first but they obviously didn't, people lost their jobs, couldn't pay and the banks got surprised...

I understand that you don't want your money to go to lazy people, who wants that.. But do you really think everybody who's sick, unemployed and so on just sits at home and thinks, "this is nice, I get a little cash every month to do nothing".. Don't you think they'd rather go to work and make a little more cash? Perhaps getting some sort of health care?

Im not sure, perhaps I'm to trusting but I think people want to work, work usually makes people feel important, gets them a good self-eestem (sp?)..
Right now our government has a policy that everybody should work..
The more who work the more taxes the government gets and the better the system gets.. Better healthcare, schools, care for the elderly and so on..
So they've cut down on government subsidies to help stimulate employment by lowering the taxes for everybody who works, social costs for companies and a much harder enviroment for those who don't. Which has caused sever headlines in the newspapers and all but in the end it works better... Our economy has never been better..
Eventhough we pay a lot in taxes, we have pretty much the same living standards as you and we still have free healthcare, free schools, 1½ year paid maternity leave and so on..

That is part of the debate, more laws in this country seem to do absolutely nothing... Heck, we can even ENFORCE the laws in the books! Look at our immigration issues!

The government seems to handle things wastefully, haphazardly, and just incompetently. There are countless examples, the American railroad system known as Amtrack, is a HUGE money pit. The U.S. Postal service, another tax drain. The BAD part about all of this is that most of what the government is involved in, could turn into revenue generators (such as the US postal service), but there is absolutely no motivation in doing so. No one has to answer to why the USPS is losing money, no CEO's to fire, no fingers to point. It is the government, the government just looks passed it and then investigates professional baseball players because they decided to use steroids.

It seems the United States of America was founded on social and economic principles I quite honestly find self-depricating. We are traditionally taught that religious freedom was the main motivator for coming to America and establishing a rule separate from the oppressions of most world leaders of the day. A closer look would reveal that the oppressions of tight fisted, then known world leaders lead to extreme living conditions and also that tight fisted service to the state through the entity called church/religion was expected from most, if not all, peoples. Thus people wanted to be 'free' of the oppressive social decision making processes of the government and also have the ability to serve God (however you choose to define Him) in accordance to a personal belief founded on an actual relationship not dictated by leadership motivated with the desire to control the 'masses' (pun intended and I apologize ahead of time to my Catholic and Muslim friends.)

Trouble is, once intoxicated with the incredible fertility and seeming endless resources of the land called America, the leadership for this new land initiated an edict for the new world disguised as an 'order from God' to justify pillaging this new land as a means of 'civilizing and bringing a just style of living to all people'.

Having at least said that, I am saying it stirs the ire in me to think that someone may limit/eliminate my choices in lifestyle based on my beliefs. But then again I can't help but think there is a final destiny in all this 'evolutional' change.

How can we salvage our country? Look into the past and talk to world leaders, investigate and compare societies that were self-governed (with very little republic, democratic or otherwise, intervention) and motivated through hearts influenced by a belief and relationship with an almighty Creator, and those societies who were ruled by men unbridled in their accountability to no other power but themselves. We'd have a long way to go and I'm not sure there's a people otherwise motivated to bring about the type of change necessary to ensure these freedoms again, at least not that I can see in my generation or the next.

Part of this issue was resolved by the great ability of the states to control their own borders. Now, we are all trapped under the federal umbrella. People can hate Thomas Jefferson all they want, the man was smart, he fought for state's rights for a reason.

Examples being Rhode Island, Utah, Pennsylvania. (Freedom of Religion, The Mormon state, The Quaker State )

Great! Wasn't really sure..

I understand that you don't want your money to go to lazy people, who wants that.. But do you really think everybody who's sick, unemployed and so on just sits at home and thinks, "this is nice, I get a little cash every month to do nothing".. Don't you think they'd rather go to work and make a little more cash? Perhaps getting some sort of health care?

Unfortunately no... A majority of these people that I have seen are so simple minded, cognitively impaired... I don't think they have the mental capacity to realize they are a drain on the system and serve absolutely no purpose in being in existence (Harsh...but true). Oh yeah, the key to getting free healthcare is to NOT work... If you work, you have to pay for your care!

Two other notes:

Your immigration issues in Sweden pale in comparison to our issue. For every 1 immigrant there are 103 swedes (Is that the right term??). There is only 27 Americans to EVERY ONE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT!!!

(9.2 million / 89,000 versus 300,000,000 / 11,000,000 and counting)

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS...key here being ILLEGAL.... I L L E G A L.... Get
FREE:

Healthcare
Education
Jobs
Money
Government Support
Student loans (they are free considered HOW ARE THE GOING TO TRACK YOU FOR MONEY...)..
New life! commit murder in Mexico? Who cares! come to America! Your next baby is an automatic US citizen!

My other point is that I want Puerto Rico, Guam, all these other islands to become states because they get government money AND DONT FRICKEN PAY TAXES. They too get free money....

 

[Vonderbach]

Because obviously we are handling our own economic issues so well So what if a country criticizes us, and by all means, please DO help us...

You know, we are facing a TRILLION dollar deficit?

I think you misunderstood my sentiment. I was implying that it's sad that our "free market" President is being chastised by Germany, a socialized country with a historically poor history of economic management.

 

[Jay Willie]

This all looks like a typical congressional session...

...all blow and no go...

What a waste of good thread space. Started out as a good informative thread but as is typical with people who have no idea how to address the multi-complexities of any issue (that'd be me included), we can all describe very well what's wrong with every one else's ideas.



...sheesh...

 

[StromBusa]

& Now the Canadians have problems...

There's a nagging sense police, public servants and politicians are wallowing in a bottomless trough they figure Canadians will constantly replenish," columnist James Travers wrote in the Toronto Star, the country's biggest newspaper.

"Fake Lake"

People you give money to don't quite understand its value .

 

[Thyg0d]

@S4L

Thanks!! really! Now I get a bit more of how your system works..
And now i more understand why people don't want to work...
H€ll, I wouldn't under those circumstances..

Still don't think a middle way between EU and the US would be that bad though..

The only reason you think France is having such a sh!tty economy is 'cause they
screams the loudest.. They have a history of strikes as soon as someone tells them to do anything they don't want.. At least they don't chop of peoples heads anymore..
sure they have, just a s everybody else a national economy that took a hard blow from the financial crisis but compared to Portugal, Italy, Spain and of course Greece it's not any problems at all.. Greece f*cked up pretty good and will pay the price now...
No wonder though.. They've never had a tax system to speak of.. almost all transactions went under the table so to speak... There were even ways for huge corp's to make large transactions without beeing taxed...