Charlottesville, Virginia Well I Will Start The Conversation.

"In your opinion, is it the right thing to respect the 1st and 4th amendments if absolute common sense shows that a hate group and their counter-protesters arriving with clubs and shields, will lead to violence, loss of life and public disruption? In short is freedom more important than life, public safety and law and order? Do you believe most other civilized countries who will not tolerate or allow a white supremacist group to protest and allow protesters to walk the streets armed are wrong?"

If its OK for a radical black group to be heard, then its alright for a radical white group to be heard. If the blacks do so with looting and violence and total lack of respect, then the equally stupid whites should have the same privilege. Yet it doesn't appear as though they are being treated the same by the press or the politics. And so be it, much like the 60s in civil rights marches and the 70s with Vietnam marches, either the politicians will listen or change will come the hard way.

You are in a country who was founded on and has its constitution written to insure freedoms EQUALLY! Its what makes us hated by some and loved by others. If some groups are allowed to be radically stupid, then they should not be appalled when its met with the equal radically stupid.

It was also founded by Christian guidelines. And while I'm not Christian I completely understand that that is the prevailing wind of the country I live in. It isn't my place to make them see it my way. Its my place to understand that those values are what are still held on to by many. Making them go away through Political pressure, is the reason we revolted in the first place.

In your previous post, Trump also quoted "Both sides" and he is now being crucified for doing it, his council for infrastructure has been disbanded as a result. Republicans are criticizing him. The Brits in Theresa May has rebuked his statement. Some are going as far as predicting that he will eventually resign in a manner which gives him victory. This is not what I am saying, just what is happening right now.

Where I am coming from is whether it was a BLM march or a White Supremacist march, due to the risk of the content, if I was the city of Charlottesville, I would not have issued a permit or allowed the rally. What would have followed is an injunction overriding my decision based on the constitution, allowing the rally. What I would have done further, is very very clearly, loudly and widely express my freedom of opinion that whichever court and whichever judge ruled the injunction should accept responsibility for the consequences, whether they are public disorder, destruction of property or loss of life. It probably would not have changed the outcome, but it would make the courts think about how they apply the rules of the constitution.
 
Social media, 24 hr fake news and YouTube (broadcast yourself) were the worst things imaginable that technology could deliver to a vain, bored, lazy and morally bankrupt society. No one ever stopped to consider whether people were capable of being properly social or should have been broadcasted to begin with.

I imagine the moral and social decline we're seeing today smelled and felt a bit like the relative equivalent of Rome when while it was busy committing suicide. This problem largely isn't fixable because this generation doesn't know what it's missing or how far they've drifted and therefore how and why they should go back.

Like it or not this is not the new norm, I fear at this pace we'll long for going back and having been able to have called it the new norm. This will get worse and the usfull idiots who're perpetrating it don't understand that regardless the outcome it won't turn out how they think it will.

Journalism is dead (esssentially replaced by liberal superpacs), government is corrupt from one end to the other (wether you like Trump or not it's on full display), academia is teaching liberal/social ideologies, revisionist history and conservative hate, illegal immigration without any accountability to the law or need to assimilate into US coulture has not only been tolerated but rewarded with tax payer funded Balkanization, personal property and freedoms are under assault at every level of government (federal, state and local), beuracracy and socialist group imaginable, class warfare has been sewn in our fabric, race baiting at every level, white guilt, social justice and equality have replaced hard work, personal responsibilty and the ability to enjoy the fruits of your own labor.

Stay frosty, be prepared...

Could keep typing for days but that's all from an iPhone...
 
I am a Christian, and I impose that on no one. Everyone has the right to choose what they belive.
The problem has been for decades that people have been pushing Christian values out everywhere.
If anyone doesn't belive in Christ, as said, it's their right. But take away God from the 10 commandments, and you are still left with moral laws, thou shall not steal, covett, murder, commit adultery. And Jesus's commandment, love your neighbor as yourself, aka, the golden rule.
Whether you belive in him or not, the rules still make sense. I'm as big of a hipocrit and screwup as the next guy, but I make a consious effort to do the right thing.
As said already, we, the U.S and the rest of the world, have a morality problem. The majority care only for themselves, their intrests, and this generation feels entitled and deserving of free everything...and a safe space to cry when you hurt their feelings.
Polictical correctness has lead to the death of common sense. And will be the downfall of this nation, with the rest of the world following suite.
 
I am a Christian, and I impose that on no one. Everyone has the right to choose what they belive.
The problem has been for decades that people have been pushing Christian values out everywhere.
If anyone doesn't belive in Christ, as said, it's their right. But take away God from the 10 commandments, and you are still left with moral laws, thou shall not steal, covett, murder, commit adultery. And Jesus's commandment, love your neighbor as yourself, aka, the golden rule.
Whether you belive in him or not, the rules still make sense. I'm as big of a hipocrit and screwup as the next guy, but I make a consious effort to do the right thing.
As said already, we, the U.S and the rest of the world, have a morality problem. The majority care only for themselves, their intrests, and this generation feels entitled and deserving of free everything...and a safe space to cry when you hurt their feelings.
Polictical correctness has lead to the death of common sense. And will be the downfall of this nation, with the rest of the world following suite.

At their core, most religions preach good values to live by. Muslims, Hindus, Buddahist et al. Remove whatever God they aspire to worship and there are still good valued rules to live by. They all preach doing the right things as humans. All the rest of it is just to assert a higher power damnation if you don't follow what the religion they support as the best, otherwise you're doomed.
 
In your previous post, Trump also quoted "Both sides" and he is now being crucified for doing it, his council for infrastructure has been disbanded as a result. Republicans are criticizing him. The Brits in Theresa May has rebuked his statement. Some are going as far as predicting that he will eventually resign in a manner which gives him victory. This is not what I am saying, just what is happening right now.

Where I am coming from is whether it was a BLM march or a White Supremacist march, due to the risk of the content, if I was the city of Charlottesville, I would not have issued a permit or allowed the rally. What would have followed is an injunction overriding my decision based on the constitution, allowing the rally. What I would have done further, is very very clearly, loudly and widely express my freedom of opinion that whichever court and whichever judge ruled the injunction should accept responsibility for the consequences, whether they are public disorder, destruction of property or loss of life. It probably would not have changed the outcome, but it would make the courts think about how they apply the rules of the constitution.

If I remember correctly either the Baltimore or Ferguson PD decided to NOT do a thing to keep the peace after these type injunctions came down. They were in a no win situation so they may as well save themselves from bodily harm. I wonder how that worked out? It just faded away from the news cycle.

I do tend to think that Trump won't stay in office. He will simply decide to go back to what he was before. That will leave us with Pence. I can live with that. Pence with a new invigorated Republican mass of voters..............hmmmmm.
 
If I remember correctly either the Baltimore or Ferguson PD decided to NOT do a thing to keep the peace after these type injunctions came down. They were in a no win situation so they may as well save themselves from bodily harm. I wonder how that worked out? It just faded away from the news cycle.

I do tend to think that Trump won't stay in office. He will simply decide to go back to what he was before. That will leave us with Pence. I can live with that. Pence with a new invigorated Republican mass of voters..............hmmmmm.

Have a lot of respect for Pence, he has an incredibly difficult task, yet has not put one foot wrong!!!!
 
Guess what? I agree with you, which is why I don't give a rat's ass about the KKK. They can go make their stupid PEACEFUL marches, people look at them with a mix of pity, dislike and humor - and they go on their way. No, they won't go away, but they are irrelevant, and IGNORING them is what keeps them irrelevant. However, when they are attacked, it only encourages people to consider joining their cause.

However, there is a liberal movement to label ANYONE who disagrees with the socialist agenda as a "HATER". Plenty of people, myself included, do not agree with the KKK, but also don't agree with removing these statues - yet somehow what makes me a 'hater', and therefore 'acceptable' to commit violence towards, because of my opinion, NOT my actions. No, that makes me a student of history. Those who fail to study it are doomed to repeat it. This is all being done to stir up crap. I sincerely doubt most black people gave a second look at the Lee statue until someone TOLD them that it was intolerable. There will always be someone offended over something; some of them need to grow the hell up and zip up their __. There's plenty that offends me, but that does not give me leave to go assault it...

I don't agree with the KKK's rhetoric. I don't agree with the Occupy, Antifa's or BLM's rhetoric either. Both are equally stupid. But I signed the dotted line and served 26 years to defend their right to peacefully express it. So anyone who wants to label me can kiss my lilly white tailpiece. And I'm not too old to defend it again...

Antifa and BLM was and has been the aggressor in EVERY SINGLE ONE these incidents. EVERY SINGLE Trump rally, EVER SINGLE protest from the Right ("alt-right" or not). The fights at the DNC over Bernie were between competing LEFTISTS. The only reason there aren't more of them DEAD is because of RESTRAINT on the adult side of the street...however, I fear that, sooner or later, someone is going to get sick and tired of it, and they are gonna fight back with something stronger than a rock. I don't really want a piece of the mindless drone on the street, but I'd give a arm or a leg to get my hands on WHO is REALLY behind this...and anyone who comes for me had better eat their wheaties first...

Well I may have to rethink my position. If you agree with me then I must be missing something! Ha Ha!
Anyway I think people are missing something here (everybody, not white or black people).

1. The people in these protests are mostly white. Even the BLM protests are mostly white, Charlottesville was mostly white. The inner city protest about specific cop shootings were black, but still the protesting is not actually racial if you look at who is participating. I think these people are the disaffected Wall Street protesters looking for a cause. But a lot of people just know something is going wrong. They don't know what to do or who to be mad at, but they are very mad. The right would like to channel that anger as racial, because that's the best way to deflect from the real issue - economic inequality.

2. I think many people voted for Trump as a racial reflex to Obama (at least 20-25% I think) but a lot of people voted for Trump because Hilary sucks. A lot of Dems still want to believe it was the Russians, it was the Clintons.

3. Most of the confederate monuments were erected to reinforce Jim Crow. Most were erected during the period between the 20's - 50's. That is fact. It's also why minorities want them taken down, because they were not erected as monuments to heritage. People like the KKK and Nazis are rallying around them as symbols of white power, which after all is why they were erected in the first place. That's why it's time they come down.

4. KKK marches were always intended as intimidation. Early KKK activity was done with the hood covering the face. When caught, they would claim it wasn't them and the courts would agree. The rallies were a warning to the masses they wanted to intimidate that they had infiltrated the police force and the courts, and now they could proclaim their allegiance to the KKK in public. So I don't really see their protest like other groups that are trying to raise the awareness of their cause. These marches are what I call passive terror incidents, not free speach.

5. Confederates exploited & killed and wanted the right to continue exploiting & killing people like me. I'm sure many of them had their positive moments, but they were still evil people and they did evil things. Germans do not have statues to Hitler, in fact it is against their laws. A lot of Germans have parents and grand parents (even they themselves in some cases) who were Nazis, but they banished this period from their culture because they are acknowledging this evil in their own history. The fact that we want to call our country's slavery period "heritage" and erect monuments to it says we aren't acknowledging the evil (our perspective of course). I don't care what you think, my kid should not have to graduate from General Lee High School. These statues are not history, history is much more complicated.

6. What is happening here is not new. When there is social uncertainty, white people act out racially. People are worried about a shrinking job market. They are worried about demographic shifts. Nationalism and racism are typical results. Look back at all major race riots in America and they were sparked by a majority white system treating minorities unfairly (fact by the way).

7. Finally, white people represent a fairly small minority of the people in the world. We cannot be an island, the world is a global reality. How do you think people see us making this open move to racism and nationalism? the USA was the only first world country that was not destroyed in WWII. We inherited the luxury of having an industrial economy waiting for the war to end that materialized the world. Now countries are becoming more competitive. We have to understand we need to be a part of the global community or the USA will be a thing of the past in the next 40-50 years. (fact too).
 
Just not hand gestures or peaceful marches...... :poke::bounce:

No worries, after 17 permanent years here I am still working hard at Americanizing. This morning I biked with a West Point Grad lady who is one of the top Triathletes in the country and we got attacked by a dog with the owner drinking beer on the front porch at 8:30 AM in the morning. The owner got pretty verbal and told us to get off the street. I was taught a complete new range of vocabulary, plus signs I thought ladies would never use by this petite West Point Grad.

So, in short, I am learning every day about the freedom of behavior and speech. One day, I will get it right.
 
No worries, after 17 permanent years here I am still working hard at Americanizing. This morning I biked with a West Point Grad lady who is one of the top Triathletes in the country and we got attacked by a dog with the owner drinking beer on the front porch at 8:30 AM in the morning. The owner got pretty verbal and told us to get off the street. I was taught a complete new range of vocabulary, plus signs I thought ladies would never use by this petite West Point Grad.

So, in short, I am learning every day about the freedom of behavior and speech. One day, I will get it right.

Well first, I hope you are both OK because random dog attacks and scary beer drinkers from the front porch at 8:30 a.m. is scary enough for one day...

Second, no doubt, freedoms we have come with a lot of stuff we'd rather not see, because it goes against our core beliefs, sometimes as a group, sometimes just as an individual. It's frustrating for certain.

Sorry, I couldn't pass it up though, giving you a hard time :D
 
"my kid should not have to graduate from General Lee High School"

Agree with this.

Nor should he be graduating from any institution that is black. Or rather if he can, than the whites should have all white schools they can aspire to go to. Tell you what, get rid of your black institutions and I'll do my best to try and convince the whites that feel threatened all over the U.S., they shouldn't have a problem. This isn't a southern thing.

"white people act out racially"

Interesting. Cuz we say the same thing about the blacks.

MAYBE THIS is the problem we need to work on. Perceptions.

As to our economic standings. We have done most of this to ourselves. We are supporting more and more on social programs than we have tax dollars to accomplish. We fix it by putting everyone to work at something better than service jobs.
 
Better notify every colleges & university, 100+ public schools across the country, the DMV, whomever might still make money from the Dukes of Hazzard reruns and the Government about Lee-Jackson Day.

RobELee.jpg
 
"my kid should not have to graduate from General Lee High School"

Agree with this.

Nor should he be graduating from any institution that is black. Or rather if he can, than the whites should have all white schools they can aspire to go to. Tell you what, get rid of your black institutions and I'll do my best to try and convince the whites that feel threatened all over the U.S., they shouldn't have a problem. This isn't a southern thing.

I don't understand what you are saying here? I was referring to the name, not the demographic makeup of the student body. HBCU's work pretty hard to get white students in their schools. They actually have full ride scholarships for whites, just to increase their white population. One of the things the HBCUs in this area were fighting against with the halting of affirmative action was that they would not be able to get white kids. I know all this because I have worked extensively with all the HBCUs in this area and many of my family are teachers or administrators there. There is a debate over whether or not HBCUs are still necessary (in the black community). They were created because blacks could not attend white institutions.
 
"my kid should not have to graduate from General Lee High School"

Agree with this.

Nor should he be graduating from any institution that is black.

Or rather if he can,
than the whites should have all white schools they can aspire to go to.

Tell you what,
get rid of your black institutions and I'll do my best to try and convince the whites that feel threatened all over the U.S.

They shouldn't have a problem .

This isn't a southern thing .

"white people act out racially"

Interesting .

Cuz we say the same thing about the blacks.

MAYBE THIS is the problem we need to work on.

Perceptions .

As to our economic standings .

We have done most of this to ourselves .

We are supporting more and more on social programs
than we have tax dollars to accomplish .

We fix it by putting everyone to work
at something better than service jobs .

 
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