Changed plugs today

[mymaster]

Used top tier gas only (for those who know), same brand, same octane for about 3700 miles. A little early I know but wanted to see whats going on inside. No mention of brand or octane to save repeated talk on those subjects, although gas was ethanol oxygenated.


thoughts and/or opinions, Thanks.



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[Turbo-Torch]

They all look like shid, but especially that 3rd one from the left.

You running 93 octane or a bad ecu map?

 

[mymaster]

91, pc3 with map, stock air, yoshi bolt ons.

These shots are in order, left to right from engine.

 

[BusaCruise]

run 87 as the manual suggests.....

 

[Turbo-Torch]

With no mods other than bolt ons, I'd ditch the PC3 and drop to 87 or 89. I bet you'll see a nice performance increase and your plugs won't look like they came out of a '59 Edsel. Right now you're running way too rich.

 

[mymaster]

With no mods other than bolt ons, I'd ditch the PC3 and drop to 87 or 89.  I bet you'll see a nice performance increase and your plugs won't look like they came out of a '59 Edsel.  Right now you're running way too rich.

Thanks, I'll try it. How about gap, manual says between 0.028 - 0.031. Had em at 0.028.

 

[GSXcite]

+1 on the 87 octane. My bike runs cooler and has more performance with 87 octane,plus gets better gas milage to boot. My plugs looked so good at 15,000 mi. I didn't want to change them, but I did anyway. Just my $.02

 

[CAT3]

From the dead...

Why would you say he is running rich? Rich condition is sooty black, sometimes flaky. What he shows in his first pic is near perfect coloring wise, a slight tanish porcelain coloring (indicative of proper AFR). Too lean, the porcelain would be powdery white, or chalky white.
In both pics, there is definate signs of detonation, which is seen by the "speckles" left on the facing of the threads, the grounding strap and at least one plug (3rd to the left/first pic) on the electrode. Detonation cure is either increase octane, or decrease timing (advance, or ignition whatever you want to call it). Also, looking at the grounding straps on the plugs, most evident on #2 &3 of second pic, you can see the timing mark on the electrode side of the grounding strap, which is showing too much timing.
I am curious to see how the plugs look now, after using 87 octane as long as no other changes have been made to the tune (including timing). If you the plugs are the same temp range, they should look worse in theory. Of course, riding style will effect the outcome as well.... riding in 6t gear at 25mph will increase the load of the cylinders, and become more prone to detonation when cruising like that and then going WOT without downshifting.

87 octane does burn faster, which explains the increase in the SOTP performance felt. However lower octane also is more susceptible to detonation under less than ideal circumstances.

Charlie

 

[BA BUSA]

Busa's are designed to run on 87...unless you increase the compression, or add a Turbo, or Nitrous you need to run 87

Those plugs look like crap...too slow of cruising speeds and or long idling are also bad. The PC is not required with bolt ons and the map should be leaned out a bit

 

[psycobusa]

spark plug chart link

its been posted a hundred times but maybe you havent seen it yet

 

[qwknuf6]

Plugs look , good , not the best , chart confirms this

 

[CAT3]

spark plug chart link

its been posted a hundred times but maybe you havent seen it yet

Although I have not seen this page before, I have seen many others, from NGK as well as in Tech School. The plugs in the first pic are good, sans the signs of detonation! Yes, that is detonation, microscopic particles of piston material embedded onto the facing of the plugs!
First thing that should have been asked: Was the bike ran up on a WOT Blast, then immediately shut down, then the plugs pulled for a true reading? If not, and the plugs were simply pulled after normal riding, then it is what is called a "wash." Wash is where you allow the plugs to experience different loads, AFR and operating conditions, the fuel and combustion will literally remove valuable trace from the plug as it cools down, and is subjected to light/no load conditions, such as deceleration.
If you want to read your plugs, and you see something like posted above, I would recommend you use a new set of plugs. Start the bike and let idle from cold to normal temp. Pull plugs, this will let you see what is going on at idle. Clean, or use new plugs, install and go for a normal routine ride. Pull plugs, but dont let the bike idle b/w your ride and the shutdown, or else the idle if too rich/lean will "wash" your readings. Then repeat but go do a WOT Blast and immediately shut it down, no coasting, decel, idle etc...Now you will have a true look as to what is going on with the tuning, at idle, low-load and rpm, and full load and rpm (I believe the PCIII also adjusts fuel in a similar fashion, but havent used one yet). You may end up seeing detonation at low-load/rpm, but not idle and not WOT. That would suggest reducing the ignition advance at mid-rpm/load.

The plugs posted, have signs of rich condition, the sooty area on them, but it is not "fresh" suggesting the bike was allowed to idle or decel. The rich condition may be at idle only, and decel will wash much of the trace from them. And this goes on and on.

I'm not posting this trying to start an arguement. I've been around plugs my whole life, and made quite a decent supplement to my living from tuning cars, which as far as plugs are concerned there is no difference what its used in, motorcycle, car etc...same goes for tuning AFR and Ignition Advance. I'd dont mind a discussion on this and I will remain open-minded to learning, but I just dont see where these plugs are "rich", look like sh*t, or necessarily need a new map, especially when no one asked what the conditions were, WOT, idle, low-load etc...

Charlie

 

[Turbo-Torch]

Plugs look , good , not the best , chart confirms this

If they came out of a Dodge back in 1977 (when that chart was made) they might be considered passable as shown in pics 5 to 8.

Those plugs look like crap coming out of a modern fuel injected engine with only 3700 miles.

 

[CAT3]

Plugs look , good , not the best , chart confirms this

If they came out of a Dodge back in 1977 (when that chart was made) they might be considered passable as shown in pics 5 to 8.

Those plugs look like crap coming out of a modern fuel injected engine with only 3700 miles.

Are we all looking at the same plugs? Holy batman Turbo...I understand where your coming, sorta, but not looking at his first pic of plugs....

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/11.jpg Thats the closest I would put his plugs to on the chart.

Of couse, we are merely looking at one angle shot of the plugs, but I dont see the comparison to your mentioned plugs like:

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/6.jpg

 

[race24x]

When is scheduled service for Hayabusa plugs???

 

[babuski]

Agree with CAT....to some extent. Plug reading is an art and you can tell a lot about an engines internals by the plugs. I usually by my cars used...and the first thing I do is check the plugs. In the first picture....the two end plugs look fine. But that third from the left needs more light, but looks a little worse off. The second is so so...I have seen far worse. But I do think that 3rd from the end seems to be telling you something is not optimal...not bad...but not perfect either....

 

[qwknuf6]

Plugs look , good , not the best , chart confirms this

If they came out of a Dodge back in 1977 (when that chart was made) they might be considered passable as shown in pics 5 to 8.

Those plugs look like crap coming out of a modern fuel injected engine with only 3700 miles.

Are we all looking at the same plugs?  Holy batman Turbo...I understand where your coming, sorta, but not looking at his first pic of plugs....

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/11.jpg  Thats the closest I would put his plugs to on the chart.

Of couse, we are merely looking at one angle shot of the plugs, but I dont see the comparison to your mentioned plugs like:

http://www.dansmc.com/spark_plugs/6.jpg

Modern gas has all kinds of additives that leave deposits on the plugs , the inner part plugs look "OK" .

I bet the engine was running good ,but Mymaster did not say.

Mark

 

[MX Tuner]

Funny thing is you can't tell how the mixture is by these pics. Ask anyone who really knows their stuff about plugs and they'll tell you to look where the porcelain meets the steel part of the plug. You need a strong flashlight and look way down in there to acurately check how its burning.

Cat3, you talk about *wash* changing the color of a plug. That's the biggest reason to pretty much ignore most plug readings unless you do a full throttle plug chop. I've had way too many guys give up on their jetting and bring it over because "The plug was black so I kept going leaner. Now it runs worse than ever!" If you want a general indicator on your fuel/air mixture, look at the inside of the tip of your exhaust.

 

[jimzu]

500 miles on mine. Ghetto kit. I think it's rich.....

 

[Un-Caged]

(CAT3 @ Aug. 26 2006,20:40) From the dead...

Why would you say he is running rich?  Rich condition is sooty black, sometimes flaky.  What he shows in his first pic is near perfect coloring wise, a slight tanish porcelain coloring (indicative of proper AFR).  Too lean, the porcelain would be powdery white, or chalky white.  
In both pics, there is definate signs of detonation, which is seen by the "speckles" left on the facing of the threads, the grounding strap and at least one plug (3rd to the left/first pic) on the electrode.  Detonation cure is either increase octane, or decrease timing (advance, or ignition whatever you want to call it).  Also, looking at the grounding straps on the plugs, most evident on #2 &3 of second pic, you can see the timing mark on the electrode side of the grounding strap, which is showing too much timing.  
I am curious to see how the plugs look now, after using 87 octane as long as no other changes have been made to the tune (including timing).  If you the plugs are the same temp range, they should look worse in theory.  Of course, riding style will effect the outcome as well.... riding in 6t gear at 25mph will increase the load of the cylinders, and become more prone to detonation when cruising like that and then going WOT without downshifting.  

87 octane does burn faster, which explains the increase in the SOTP performance felt.  However lower octane also is more susceptible to detonation under less than ideal circumstances.  

Charlie

Right on CAT3. You can't make the call on mixture with these plugs anyway because as you know you can't see the "burn ring" in these photos. Timing looks a little lazy on all 4. I'm not so sure they are detonating though; may just be fuel deposits burning off. Usually detonation leaves the specks on the porcelain. Milder cases will leave them a little sooty over otherwise good heat and burn marks.