Can You Really Blame Israel?

[fallenarch]

I don't believe that anyone is a terrorist. Terror is a tatic used by people who find themselves in an asymmetrical war (up against superior force). I kind of really hate that label because it fits on the American settlers, Native Americans, KKK, nasis, malitia, Black Panthers you name it. Then we label muslims terrorist and it becomes synomous with a race of people, like they invented it or something. Now don't get me wrong - had I been president on 9-11 I would have turned a good bit of the middle eastern dessert into glass!

Israel has been occupying the Palestinians for some time and making life very difficult. They are not acting like people with the history they have. I don't blame them for responding to those rocket attacks but I also know they are no totally innocent. It's like two kids fighting, neither is ever totally innocent, which is what I think Blanca is saying.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

We don't even need a history book to know why there is a desire to eliminate Israel. Everyone knows that Islam wants to eliminate Israel because of what Muslims believe in. They believe everything the Quran states and whatever Mohammad had told them. It is a Holy war going back for centuries. It is not because Israel killed anyone but solely because Israel is just simply breathing. Islam's God is different the Israel's God. And God said Israel wins hence the pure desire to wipe out Israel from the Islamic stand point. Israel can give up every weapon, wave a white flag and apologize a million times and even offer themselves up for slavery and Islam would say no, just die. Now that is the reality.

Things like that make you lose credibility because there is just as much if not more preached violence in our religion as theirs. You spent pages upon pages in the other thread trying to explain how the Old Testament doesn't really mean what it says regarding killing the enemies of Christianity but yet you speak of Islam as a religion of total hate. There are verses and commandments in the Quaran that say same as some things in the bible yet you take verbatim Islam and try to explain away Christian sayings and writings. Silly that is.
If Islam was as you speak than westeners would not even be able to set foot in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, KSA or any other but yet there are Christian populations in all those countries that aren't under threat from their Muslim neighbors. There are as we speak Christians in Syria fighting alongside Muslim brothers for freedom. So your theory doesn't work. Blind you are to the fact the majority of Muslims are as peaceful as you and I. Billions in the world and you have them lumped into same group as small as Hamas. That's sad.

 

[nabusa]

Things like that make you lose credibility because there is just as much if not more preached violence in our religion as theirs. You spent pages upon pages in the other thread trying to explain how the Old Testament doesn't really mean what it says regarding killing the enemies of Christianity but yet you speak of Islam as a religion of total hate. There are verses and commandments in the Quaran that say same as some things in the bible yet you take verbatim Islam and try to explain away Christian sayings and writings. Silly that is.
If Islam was as you speak than westeners would not even be able to set foot in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, KSA or any other but yet there are Christian populations in all those countries that aren't under threat from their Muslim neighbors. There are as we speak Christians in Syria fighting alongside Muslim brothers for freedom. So your theory doesn't work. Blind you are to the fact the majority of Muslims are as peaceful as you and I. Billions in the world and you have them lumped into same group as small as Hamas. That's sad.

What is the end game of Islam? It is not peace. It is world domination. And the elimination of Israel. Christianity does not preach or teach hate. Islam does. Christianity did not kill millions, the catholic church did now that is a big difference. They used the name of God but that was not God's command to do what they did but uninformed people label it the christians did it. That was not what the Gospel teaches. I did not say the Old Testament doesn't mean what it says, I said the old covenant does not apply to us there is a difference. As a brother in Christ we are to stand with Israel period. Has Israel messed up? They sure have. Are they still? Yes. But we still are to stand by our brothers and sisters. Again there is not even a hint of violence preached in Christianity today, I don't know who has been preaching to you but that is simply lies. The gospel does not teach/preach violence at all. It actually says if your enemy slaps your across the face, offer the other cheek.

Is 100% Muslims crazy killers? No. But the true message of the Quran does teach and preach violence. Why do you think Islam loves to burn the american flag? The israeli flag? Look at how happy and joyful Muslims were at 9/11. Even in our streets in our country they were happy when the towers fell. How on earth can you even begin to compare the Gospel message of Christianity of LOVE to the pure hatred of Islam? How is that even possible? Read the new testament, you find me a single passage that teaches violence. You will not find one. Islam does not equal peace. While there are many many many muslims that want peace, the message of the Quran is not peace. Hence why you have bombings, murderer, rape, etc. Look at how they even control their woman. Do I hate Muslims? No. I wish for them to also look at how foolish they are acting and how what they believe in is sending them to a place that is far from good. But I understand that some people will simply not listen to anyone outside of Islam.

 

[nabusa]

FYI hamas did not blow up the twin towers. Hamas did not bring down the twin towers. Hamas did not do many many terrorist attacks around the world. But the terrorist that did these things and still are are all Muslims.

 

[nabusa]

I don't believe that anyone is a terrorist. Terror is a tatic used by people who find themselves in an asymmetrical war (up against superior force). I kind of really hate that label because it fits on the American settlers, Native Americans, KKK, nasis, malitia, Black Panthers you name it. Then we label muslims terrorist and it becomes synomous with a race of people, like they invented it or something. Now don't get me wrong - had I been president on 9-11 I would have turned a good bit of the middle eastern dessert into glass!

Israel has been occupying the Palestinians for some time and making life very difficult. They are not acting like people with the history they have. I don't blame them for responding to those rocket attacks but I also know they are no totally innocent. It's like two kids fighting, neither is ever totally innocent, which is what I think Blanca is saying.

Israel may not be innocent but they are no where near like the radical Islamists.

 

[masterblaster]

I get that feeling sometimes too Nabusa, but the fact is there are Muslims,and there are crazy Muslims. Most Muslims are not Arab and there are many many different types of muslin sects just like the Jews, Christians, and Hindus have different sects. Go to Indonesia and you wont see the crazy stuff going like you do in certain parts of the middle east, same for turkey. One sect of the muslim religion is very bad violent and stone age like, its Whabisim (Saudi funded and promoted). The Iranians and a lot of the ME Muslims including the Palestinians run their politics based heavily on Islam, the less crazy Muslim countries tend to keep some distance between them, however, always remaining respectful of the populations sensibilities. Each country and tribe are different even within a single country so its very hard to generalize. All this being what it is, I do agree with Arch though, if I am the president on 9/11 I would have nuked the whole dammed region a couple of times just to make sure no one was left. I would not have targeted the Muslims just everyone in the middle east and south west Asia, pretty much from the med coastline to the border of China and India.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Gee I guess your right.
All Muslims are blood thirsty savages and seek your death.
Christians have never killed anyone in the name of their God.
When Muslims kill it is much much different than when Christians do it.
I didn't realize you were a scholar on the Quran and the religion.
Seems like whoever has been preaching to you knows more than someone like me who's actually been to all the countries I mentioned and more. Yes when I was over there Cross around my neck I cowared and hid like a rat in fear from being killed by those savages.
Why do they burn our flag? Do you have to ask? Really? You don't think more than twenty yrs of dropping bombs on them in Iraq had something to do with it? Did CNN show some celebrating 9/11? Sure. Does that represent the whole of the populace? No it does not.

And if you think Muslims are more bent on world domination than Christians ie the USA or Britain you're messed up.
Enjoy your view on Muslims for it will certainly be the reason things will never change. Christians and Muslims should work together to get rid of the radicals not against each other to encourage them.

 

[GNBRETT]

I don't believe that anyone is a terrorist. Terror is a tatic used by people who find themselves in an asymmetrical war (up against superior force). I kind of really hate that label because it fits on the American settlers, Native Americans, KKK, nasis, malitia, Black Panthers you name it. Then we label muslims terrorist and it becomes synomous with a race of people, like they invented it or something. Now don't get me wrong - had I been president on 9-11 I would have turned a good bit of the middle eastern dessert into glass!

Israel has been occupying the Palestinians for some time and making life very difficult. They are not acting like people with the history they have. I don't blame them for responding to those rocket attacks but I also know they are no totally innocent. It's like two kids fighting, neither is ever totally innocent, which is what I think Blanca is saying.

well, that tactic as you refer to seems to be practiced more by radical islamic muslims then any other people on earth. is it just coincidence that on 9/11 it was radical muslims or howbout the 1983 US embassy attack or TWA flight 847 or the Luxor attacks or the numerous suicide bombings in Tel Aviv. I could go on for hours....

of course they are not the only people that have committed terror attacks. we have some of our own home grown terroists but the fact remains around the world for at least the last 30-40 years has dealt with radical islamic muslims committing these cowardly attacks. so after a while when a pattern starts to exist they have a tentency to be labeled that way. of course its not all Arabs or muslims but when a terror attack occurs is it just coincidence that its one of them committing these terror acts?

they may not have invented it but they sure work really hard at perfecting it....

their attacks are for political and religious means. big difference between them and the other groups of people you mentioned who also demonstrate their hate for people other then themselves.

the majority of radical islamic muslim terror attacks have taken place in Israel.

and its the Palestinians that occupy Israel. its not the other way around. and in case u've forgotton Israel won a decisive land war against the Arab's in 1967 to own Gaza as well other areas.

groups of people as well as countries have been fighting for the rights to land for thousands of years. Arab's got their ass kicked so they resort to cowardly attacks on innocent citizens. not military installments or armies but civilians. trying to find a rationale to that is absud!

there has never been a civilization or any sort of nation referred to as Palestine. nor has there ever been a distinct Palestinian culture or language so saying that Israel occupys the Palestinian land is absolute nonesense!

when has there ever never been a Palestinian state governed by Arab Palestinians? the so-called leader of the Palestinian people, Yasser Arafat was Egyptian for christs sake...

a jewish empire existed over this area long before the Arabs and Islam was even around! any time there is an archaeological dig in Israel what artifacts are discovered? are the artifacts from the Palestinian people? no there not. the jews have had a documented presence there for well over 3,000 years! the ancient Hebrew texts as well as the pottery, coffins and all other artifacts all support this claim so once again how is it that Israel is occupying their land when ALL the phyical evidence supports the jews being there for 3000+ years?

 

[fallenarch]

There are no more accomplished terrorist than Christians GNBRETT, that is a historical fact. If you want to put blinders on and focus down on 30-40 years of over thousands of years of history ok but that's not going to get to a fair assesment of things. Frankly I don't know the Israel situation as well as I know other subjects so I won't really argue one way or another. I do know know lots of muslims and they are great people. I don't think any religion has the edge when it comes to crazy people.

 

[GNBRETT]

most muslims I know are great people. I wont argue that fact at all. in fact, id say they are some of the hardest working people I know in the city I work in. its the continued brainwashing that they get in areas of the world that are poor and resort to the "Holy war" as an excuse to act out when they cannot defeat a stronger enemy. if they spend half as much time towards educating themselves and creating business as they do this holy war the world would be a better place.

and I wont disagree that there have been many terror attacks by Christians as well. northern Ireland, KKK, NLFT, etc.... but, their not all directed at the Jews.

the jews have been persecuted for a very long time now for simply having a religious belief different then others. yes, they do tend to stick together and help out each while shunning others. I grew up in south florida and had jews that lived on both sides of me for 10 years so yea I get what pisses some people off about them but is that reason to want them exterminated????

they contribute to world in more ways then a can count. between the scientists, doctors, lawyers, actors, etc... they actually make this world a better place to live in. their well educated, committ very few crimes, dress well, speak well, clean, family oriented. it comes down to RELIGION and people should not be persecuted for their religious beliefs.

and they are the superior military power in the Middle East and if other Arab countries sorrounding them had the weapons they have they would have turned Israel into class already and not give a rats ass what the rest of the world thinks. that makes them extremely dangerous to all of us. not just Israel.

instability in the middle east has HUGE implications on our daily lives when you factor in oil.

Gaza is like a pressure cooker. its such a small area with a huge population. when your poor, have nothing and never will have anything you do one of two things. you either fuk or you fight and therefore they will procreate rapidly. there isnt a hell of a lot more to do.

they want Jerusalem and will continue to reign terror on Israel till one of them is wiped out. and I just dont see Israel putting up with this any longer. they have elections coming up and if this conflict gets worse ur gonna see thousands of innocent people in Gaza killed when they return fire cause unlike Gaza Israel is a democracy and the citizens there are not thrilled with the ceasefire.

 

[nabusa]

Gee I guess your right.
All Muslims are blood thirsty savages and seek your death.
Christians have never killed anyone in the name of their God.
When Muslims kill it is much much different than when Christians do it.
I didn't realize you were a scholar on the Quran and the religion.
Seems like whoever has been preaching to you knows more than someone like me who's actually been to all the countries I mentioned and more. Yes when I was over there Cross around my neck I cowared and hid like a rat in fear from being killed by those savages.
Why do they burn our flag? Do you have to ask? Really? You don't think more than twenty yrs of dropping bombs on them in Iraq had something to do with it? Did CNN show some celebrating 9/11? Sure. Does that represent the whole of the populace? No it does not.

And if you think Muslims are more bent on world domination than Christians ie the USA or Britain you're messed up.
Enjoy your view on Muslims for it will certainly be the reason things will never change. Christians and Muslims should work together to get rid of the radicals not against each other to encourage them.

You missed what I was saying. I did not say all Muslims are evil. I did not say all Muslims are crazy. I said Muslims who actually read the Quran are using Islam in all of these terror attacks that have been going of for decades. The Catholic church waged a holy war on the world for centuries in the name of God. But none of those so called Christians even read the Bible. They went on word of mouth what they Catholic church was teach and actually what their official church doctrine to this day states.

Fast forward today, many Muslims do not read the Quran. It's like most Christians today do not read the Bible. Yet they say they know God. Just like radical Islamics say they know Aliah. Today many many many Muslims are preached hate. Many are preached to go kill themselves in the name of their God killing as many as possible. Islam can not co-exist with Israel because well we all know what Israel is to Islam. Yes we all should work together in peace but right now it is like this. You have two pit bulls. One is foaming at the mouth the other is calm. You put a piece of steak in front of them and ask them to play nicely. Do you seriously think the foaming pit bull will act all nice like? Terrorism today is done by Muslims that is a fact. There is no sugar coating it. 3,000 Americans died in 9/11 because of Islam. If you do not want to accept that well brother that is on you. Israel's constant bombardment recently has been from the Hamas. But for many decades it has been other Muslims that hate the Jewish nation. Iran themselves said Israel do not deserve to live. You can keep yourself blind to what is happening in our world to this day if you want to, but pretending that all of Islam is peace is a lie. Yes I can wear a cross and walk down many Muslim countries with no issue. But walk down one of the ones that preach Islam, that would be a different story.

 

[fallenarch]

most muslims I know are great people. I wont argue that fact at all. in fact, id say they are some of the hardest working people I know in the city I work in. its the continued brainwashing that they get in areas of the world that are poor and resort to the "Holy war" as an excuse to act out when they cannot defeat a stronger enemy. if they spend half as much time towards educating themselves and creating business as they do this holy war the world would be a better place.

and I wont disagree that there have been many terror attacks by Christians as well. northern Ireland, KKK, NLFT, etc.... but, their not all directed at the Jews.

the jews have been persecuted for a very long time now for simply having a religious belief different then others. yes, they do tend to stick together and help out each while shunning others. I grew up in south florida and had jews that lived on both sides of me for 10 years so yea I get what pisses some people off about them but is that reason to want them exterminated????

they contribute to world in more ways then a can count. between the scientists, doctors, lawyers, actors, etc... they actually make this world a better place to live in. their well educated, committ very few crimes, dress well, speak well, clean, family oriented. it comes down to RELIGION and people should not be persecuted for their religious beliefs.

and they are the superior military power in the Middle East and if other Arab countries sorrounding them had the weapons they have they would have turned Israel into class already and not give a rats ass what the rest of the world thinks. that makes them extremely dangerous to all of us. not just Israel.

instability in the middle east has HUGE implications on our daily lives when you factor in oil.

Gaza is like a pressure cooker. its such a small area with a huge population. when your poor, have nothing and never will have anything you do one of two things. you either fuk or you fight and therefore they will procreate rapidly. there isnt a hell of a lot more to do.

they want Jerusalem and will continue to reign terror on Israel till one of them is wiped out. and I just dont see Israel putting up with this any longer. they have elections coming up and if this conflict gets worse ur gonna see thousands of innocent people in Gaza killed when they return fire cause unlike Gaza Israel is a democracy and the citizens there are not thrilled with the ceasefire.

I think I agree with most, maybe all of that. But most of the problems in the middle east stem from our (industrialized countries, not just USA) meddling in their affairs because we need their oil. We draw the borders, install dictators, etc. That is why they hate us and it's why their political systems are so lame. Most people don't realize that the middle east was relatively peaceful for 100 years until the Germans went after the oil to support their war effort and the allies cut the place up after the war. This was done as restitution to the Jews who we let get slaughtered in German prison camps because we were afraid they would all come to America.

It is a real mess and it will require a pretty big brain to figure out how to fix it. Eventually someone will get a weapon that will allow them to destroy each other and I'm not sure we can afford to keep Israel safe forever.......

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

You missed what I was saying. I did not say all Muslims are evil. I did not say all Muslims are crazy. I said Muslims who actually read the Quran are using Islam in all of these terror attacks that have been going of for decades. The Catholic church waged a holy war on the world for centuries in the name of God. But none of those so called Christians even read the Bible. They went on word of mouth what they Catholic church was teach and actually what their official church doctrine to this day states.

Fast forward today, many Muslims do not read the Quran. It's like most Christians today do not read the Bible. Yet they say they know God. Just like radical Islamics say they know Aliah. Today many many many Muslims are preached hate. Many are preached to go kill themselves in the name of their God killing as many as possible. Islam can not co-exist with Israel because well we all know what Israel is to Islam. Yes we all should work together in peace but right now it is like this. You have two pit bulls. One is foaming at the mouth the other is calm. You put a piece of steak in front of them and ask them to play nicely. Do you seriously think the foaming pit bull will act all nice like? Terrorism today is done by Muslims that is a fact. There is no sugar coating it. 3,000 Americans died in 9/11 because of Islam. If you do not want to accept that well brother that is on you. Israel's constant bombardment recently has been from the Hamas. But for many decades it has been other Muslims that hate the Jewish nation. Iran themselves said Israel do not deserve to live. You can keep yourself blind to what is happening in our world to this day if you want to, but pretending that all of Islam is peace is a lie. Yes I can wear a cross and walk down many Muslim countries with no issue. But walk down one of the ones that preach Islam, that would be a different story.

You're nuts. I've walked down streets in many countries that preach Islam and I'm still here. You contradict yourself so many times its laughable. Islam does not preach hate. Some turn the word and influence others to do bad things in the name of Islam but on the whole it does not preach hate. This time around Israel is the victim but it's still obvious to me you did not read what I linked in its entirety. Israel is full of foaming at the mouth radical Zionists who have been orchestrating massacres for decades.
I bet you look at Begin blowing up the King David hotel and killing 96 people differently because he was a jew. I bet you look at the acts Sharon was responsible in similar glorifying light for same reason as well. It's not I whos blind. Both sides have just as much blood on their hands.

So tell me. What do you call a person who plants a bomb in a hotel or orchestrates an assassination or was directly responsible for the massacre of over 200 women and children?

 

[skydivr]

What amazes me is how the whole world is held hostage over their 'disagreement'.

Just stop and think for a moment what the world would be like of the Muslims and the Jews would quit trying to kill each other over this little piece of earthly real estate...

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Without constant outside intervention and toiling they would be forced to learn to live together.
But both sides have larger nations fueling their fires and orchestrating this madness.

 

[nabusa]

You're nuts. I've walked down streets in many countries that preach Islam and I'm still here. You contradict yourself so many times its laughable. Islam does not preach hate. Some turn the word and influence others to do bad things in the name of Islam but on the whole it does not preach hate. This time around Israel is the victim but it's still obvious to me you did not read what I linked in its entirety. Israel is full of foaming at the mouth radical Zionists who have been orchestrating massacres for decades.
I bet you look at Begin blowing up the King David hotel and killing 96 people differently because he was a jew. I bet you look at the acts Sharon was responsible in similar glorifying light for same reason as well. It's not I whos blind. Both sides have just as much blood on their hands.

So tell me. What do you call a person who plants a bomb in a hotel or orchestrates an assassination or was directly responsible for the massacre of over 200 women and children?

Brother you don't even know what you are typing. Islam does and always have preached hate. I haven't contradicted myself at all. In the Qu'ran itself if you actually read it plainly preaches hate. If you want to keep believing Islam is peaceful without even referring to what the Qu'ran says go ahead. If you want to keep painting Israel as the equal bad guy well that is your choice to believe what you want to believe. You can't be christian and defend Islam. But it's what you have been doing. I won't say anything else, if you want to believe Israel is equally as wicked that is your choice. But the facts do not jive with what you are saying.

Things About Islam - YouTube[/url] is an insight on Islam

 

[Gpmo]

Brother you don't even know what you are typing. Islam does and always have preached hate. I haven't contradicted myself at all. In the Qu'ran itself if you actually read it plainly preaches hate. If you want to keep believing Islam is peaceful without even referring to what the Qu'ran says go ahead. If you want to keep painting Israel as the equal bad guy well that is your choice to believe what you want to believe. You can't be christian and defend Islam. But it's what you have been doing. I won't say anything else, if you want to believe Israel is equally as wicked that is your choice. But the facts do not jive with what you are saying.

[URL="

Things About Islam - YouTube[/URL] is an insight on Islam

Have you read the Quran? What's your background the qualifies you as the expert? I haven't read all the posts so I'm just wondering.

 

[Blanca BusaLess]

Brother you don't even know what you are typing. Islam does and always have preached hate. I haven't contradicted myself at all. In the Qu'ran itself if you actually read it plainly preaches hate. If you want to keep believing Islam is peaceful without even referring to what the Qu'ran says go ahead. If you want to keep painting Israel as the equal bad guy well that is your choice to believe what you want to believe. You can't be christian and defend Islam. But it's what you have been doing. I won't say anything else, if you want to believe Israel is equally as wicked that is your choice. But the facts do not jive with what you are saying.

Things About Islam - YouTube[/url] is an insight on Islam

Christ preaches acceptance and tolerance of other religions. So for as much as you tout yourself as a true Christian your lack of respect for other beliefs make you seem like the same kind of zealot that got us here to begin with um like a thousand years ago.

And I've got probably 50-60 relatives in Syria now. None are as you think.

 

[masterblaster]

Its a little more complicated that what you think, not unlike the Christian religious sects, you should read more.

Brother you don't even know what you are typing. Islam does and always have preached hate. I haven't contradicted myself at all. In the Qu'ran itself if you actually read it plainly preaches hate. If you want to keep believing Islam is peaceful without even referring to what the Qu'ran says go ahead. If you want to keep painting Israel as the equal bad guy well that is your choice to believe what you want to believe. You can't be christian and defend Islam. But it's what you have been doing. I won't say anything else, if you want to believe Israel is equally as wicked that is your choice. But the facts do not jive with what you are saying.

Things About Islam - YouTube[/url] is an insight on Islam

 

[Argilbertson]

Reading threads like this honestly makes me want to stop coming here. There's an awful lot of ignorant hate and twisted perspectives being thrown about here, and frankly, none of it serves to make this forum look like an attractive place to spend time at.

I see a lot of people making inferrences they have no concrete data to be making, lots of confirmation bias, and precious little objective reasoning and compassion for ALL the innocent people on all sides who have had to pay the price for the greed of a few small men. As much as many of you dont want to believe this, very little separates you from anyone else in the world, including the people of both countries being discussed here. Both groups believe that they are defending themselves and that they have a right to what they are asking for. If you look at it from the Palestinian perspective, their conflict is surprising similar to that of our own Revolutionary war; a guerilla war to repulse a foreign government occupying their homeland. If you look at it from the Israeli perspective, they are simply responding to incursions into their territories with overwhelming force with the intent to deter further actions. We can argue about the label of "Terrorist" all day long, and for the most part, all countries involved (including us, some will say) have from time to time worn that label.

In the end, what I really see is far too many people judging without really knowing, and that kind of willful ignorance is never something to be proud of.