Busa/ZX-12/Blackbird Predictions

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OB_Wronglane

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I'm sure this is going to generate some heat,but here goes nothing.In a month or two,the magazines will be testing these three bikes together for comfort,handling,top speed and quarter mile times.I would like to see your opinions on where their performance may or may not fall.While I would love owning any of these bikes,I admit I am biased toward top speed and quarter mile times since I do drag race but I also love to ride in the mountains too.I am buying the 12 or the Busa depending on what all the magazines say.If, however, the 12 ends up costing $2000 or more than the Busa,then the Busa is the bike for me since I believe performance will be close between the two.
Since my choice is between these two bikes,I will comment on them only.I think the 12 will go 9.60"s@146 and the Busa will go about 9.75's or so @144.
As far as top speed is concerned,I don't think the 12 will go 200 but I do think it will be 3-5 mph faster than the Busa and may go 197-198.

What do you think?????
 
Cycle World, in June issue, had already gone 145.8 mph in quarter mile, with 9.86 et. Any particular reason it would only go 144, with a 9.75 et. (per your prediction) ?
 
C.Dolan,
The Busa may go slower or faster than the 9.86@145.8 posted by Cycle World depending on many variables.I just think that on the same day, the 12 will be a little quicker and faster.
 
Everyone here is making good points on both bikes and we all agree that their performance will be close.

C.Dolan>>>>>I am amazed that your R-1 is .3 tenths and 5 mph faster than your ZX-9.I have raced both bike on the same day.Both bikes were geared one tooth down in the front and they had pipes on them.The ZX-9 went 10.12@139.64 and the R-1 went 10.47@136.89.The ZX-9 is by far the easier bike to launch and there is no doubt that I could have taken a couple of tenths off the R-1 but the bike wasn't mine and I didn't want to wipe out the clutch.It's so hard to keep the front wheel down even in the beginning of third gear,but it is a lot of fun to ride!
I agree 100% that $2000 in mods will put the Busa ahead of the 12 if the 12 is faster and yes,the Busa will be easier to launch unless Kawasaki mysteriously lengthens the wheelbase as some assume they will do.

Lyle>>>>>"The ZX12 appears geared & tuned to do it's best in the 1/4 mile. The Busa is optimized for top speed."

I don't agree with this and time will tell.Consider the fact that Gadson was traveling 120 mph in the 1/8 and the quarter in 9.5 seconds at 150mph and he was only using three gears.If any bike has a shot at 200,I think this is the bike.
While many of you will say that noone will come near the numbers posted by Gadson,I disagree.A good,diciplined rider,with practice, who knows his bike should get within .2 tenths of Ricky with no problem.Since I also believe production bikes will be stronger,I think we will all be surprised for Kawasaki desperately wants the title for dragstrip and top speed honors with them again.
 
Remember guys, you heard it here first!!! My predictions are that the 12R due to the fact that it is thinner will be about 1-3 mph faster in top speed. In the 1/4 mile it will be close with the edge going to Kawi because and ONLY because its clutch is better from the showroom. BUT, the aftermarket will have the Busa allover the 12R!! A clutch mod alone will put the Busa in front of the 12R all day long with the same rider aboard. I guess we will just have to wait and see!!!!
 
I would agree that it will be close, either way. It could even luck of the draw, in that I have seen an even greater difference between identical make and model bikes. Example: I have a 98 ZX-9, and a 99 R-1. My R-1 is .3 sec quicker and 5 mph faster (in 1/4 mi.), than my ZX-9. Mag tests haven't showed that big a difference between the two. My ZX-9 is a bit slower than others I've seen, and tried at the track. I "drew" a slower than normal ZX-9, at purchase. I had a 97 ZX-9 that ran same et. and mph. as my 98, even though the 97 was about 60 lbs heavier. It will be interesting to see more than one test, by more than one magazine, to see how they average out. I would like to see the difference in cams, between the ZX-12, and the Busa. Busa already has the displacement, and I think the price difference would more than cover the purchase of a Yosh, or Web cam. Longer wheelbase would tend to make Busa eadier to launch. The weight difference would be covered by an aftermarket pipe, since Busa stock 4:2 exhaust is maybe 10~12 lbs heavier than ZX-12 OEM 4:1 pipe.
 
Wronglane: That tends to illustrate my point of random draw. As I mentioned, I found other ZX-9's that were faster than mine. I do suspect I got a "slow" ZX-9. All my bikes bought new, and run stock, for comparison. I weigh 220, suited. I found R-1 easier to launch, since it feels more "front heavy". A decent run usually involves much rpm, clutch slippage, and a long,low 6" to 12" wheelie, most of 1st gear.
 
I Say,,A Real low flying Bird is gonna get sucked into the hoover scoop of the Zx during the test.

Don't believe the Hype ! Busa Power !!!!

161 ®
 
c.dolan--I agree with the comments. The exhaust part I also believe. I posted something on this at the 12R site.---Basically the Busa exhaust is about 10 lbs. for the X-pipe, and 5-6 lbs a piece for the cans + some hardware.
Call it 25 lbs(Weighed the stuff in and out of my hands using a bathroom scale) Maybe its not real accurate, i don't know? The Micron exhaust weighs 7-8 lbs.(s.s./carbon) Saved 15 lbs being conservative. Busa weighed 520 lbs. on a truck scale almost full gas tank

I made the point that since the 12R has only one can its its claimed to be made out of Ti in the brochure, it will be lighter than the Busa's. Therefore, if you swaps pipes on the Busa you can even out the weight disparity between them.

A post came back stating that Rickey G estimated that the exhaust on his 12R was 35 lbs+.
But, i find that hard to believe.
Guess will find out soon enough
 
My 2 cents
Based entirely on reading, I get the feeling that the stock bikes are optimized differently. The ZX12 appears geared & tuned to do it's best in the 1/4 mile. The Busa is optimized for top speed. This is in fact good marketing philosophy.

With minimal modifications either bike can compete in the other's arena. So the real difference between the two is going to be rider skill and perhaps price.
 
Bob: I seriously doubt ZX-12 exhaust would weigh as much as 35 lbs. My ZX-9 stock exhaust (Calif ed.), weighed 25 lbs. on doctor scale. Yosh exhaust, stainless / alum. , weighed 13 lbs. As much as Kawasaki was trying to make weight numbers, I doubt they would let their exhaust pork out to 35 lbs.
 
Slowhand, you race at Carlsbad? On what?

They'll all be fast and any of us would be (or are) privileged to own either. It's a great time to be a motorcycle enthusiast because there are great wars in all the sportbike classes. Can't wait to get the 2000 line-up in motion!
 
Rumors are starting to fly about chassis changes on the 12 now.. longer wheelbase ect.. I could see that happening too.. I am not sure what they were thinking making it so short, but hopefully they will fix that.
 
FastZX9: Slowhand has 99 black Busa. Tried to talk him into running. We need to get some guys from LA BUSA, down to Carlsbad. Saturday afternoons starting Jan. 8, or Monthly Sunday morning bracket race Feb 20 or 27 ? Bringing Busa out next month, with wheelie bar, low gears. Car tire GS1150 later next month......... Got your nitrous working, yet ? ......... ..Anyone interested in running at Carlsbad , please e-mail: chrisdolan@webtv.net .................... Slowhand: If you get tired of dealing with shop delays, drop me a line, and maybe we can do an automotive inline filter, or clean stock screens, ourselves.
 
C.Dolan,
Have you raced your Busa with the wheelie bar and low gears before? Are you using a street tire or a slick? Have you raced it in stock or near stock form? I love this stuff,will you share your times with us and also the modifications,if any? I raced a friends Busa and went 9.77@144. I am 6' and weigh 185(bike fits me perfect)without leathers.

Carlsbad is where most of the magazines do their testing for 1/4 mile times,right?
 
9er guys, no, I don't race there.Ran stock cages a few times at the old Kingdon Dragstrip near Stockton in the 50s and 60s, but wasn't very good at it. Had fun, though. After I do my clutch mod. in Jan.,I might try a run or two,(or maybe not) but right now the clutch is just too unfriendly on a fast launch. I'm more into the twisties, anyway.
You ask why Kawasaki made the wheelbase so short? So it would turn better. When they set up a Busa for racing(not drags)the first thing they do is shorten the swingarm. There's no free lunch. The knee-down group will love the short wheelbase and wish it was shorter. Different horses for different courses, to use another cliche.
Chris, I'll e-mail you.
 
To Wronglane: Motor stock, OEM back tire, 30 psi. Have cement launch pad, with much old rubber, and VHT. Much traction. I don't know if magazines still test here, or not. Track near sea level. I weigh 220, suited. Have not run wheelie bar or low gears on this bike, yet. Tired of 1.7 60' times, getting 10.24 @ 139, stock, no straps, etc. Would guess bar, and gears may be good for 1.4 60' time. ET and Mph will benefit in full quarter.. ... Have done 2/3 rd track wheelie, 45 ~ 55 deg. Clocked 99 mph in 1/8th. 1/4 et was 11.06 @ 135. Handlebars at eyelevel. Felt like I had "apehangers". Didn't do it deliberately, but with traction available, far more likely to stand it up, than to spin tire, down track...... ...I'll let you know if I get a "9" 1/4 out of it.............................. ...What's altitude where you ran 9.77 ?
 
C.Dolan,
You didn't mention in your last post.Will you be usung a slick when you race with the bar and new gearing? How much are you gearing the bike?
When I went 9.77,the weather was great.The temperature was 61 degrees and the barometer showed better than 31" of mercury.The track I raced at is higher than sea level but I am not sure how much higher.I left the line at 5000 rpm's and slipped the clutch as needed shifting the bike before redline because I want the rpm's to drop into the fat part of its torque curve.The only modification was one tooth down in front,tire pressure was set to 26 pounds.Sixty foot time was 1.61.This winter,the owner plans to put a full pipe on and also dyno it.I think it will go 9.50's with the right weather.
Chris,please keep me posted on your times even if you don't go nines.It's a long winter here in the northeast and I will not be racing until spring time.Good luck when you race!
 
C. Dolan, I'll e-mail you about getting to Carlsbad to run. Hopefully we can get some of the other LABusas to show; if I lead the way maybe some of the other guys will follow.
 
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