I'm going to get one of these when my warranty is up:
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Then both my bike and my car will be blown.
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Then both my bike and my car will be blown.
Busa Blower
- Thread starter Let 'er eat!
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davetheman2003_81
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very nice. how about hp numbers
how many ponies does it addSierraFlyer
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Hard to say and their website doesn't list the numbers....BUT... I put a Whipple Supercharger on my boat at 5 PSI boost and got 50% more HP. From 330HP to 520 HP and I run 92 octane pump gas with no detonation. I could go up to 7 PSI safely. It does have an intercooler which helps prevent detonation. So if this Busa blower has a similar abdiatic efficiency, you can run 240 HP with a safe margin on the engine with a compression ratio of 8.5 to 1 or less. And IF the blower is positive displacement the low end torque will almost double. You don't even have to spend money on porting the head since the fuel/air charge is pressure fed into the cylinders. I would estimate the torque peak would go up from 101 ftlbs to about 130+ ftlbs. That is the cool thing about positive displacement blowers like a Roots or Lysolm style, they make huge torque and HP at low RPM. Dragsters use this type. The centrifugal types (Paxton, ect.) are soft at the low end and come on fast at higher RPM boost like a turbo (non-positive displacement). But they are not as soft as turbos because there is no spin up lag on a blower. Also, turbos transfer more heat to the inlet air charge reducing the detonation margin. Positive displacement superchargers build torque smoothly across the whole power band. Turbos tend to build significant torque at the higher RPMs and make the power band more peaky (unless they have a pop off valve to limit top end boost). To change supercharger boost, you just change the pulley size/ratio.
M Pretty dam cool!! Still having fun with the 175 HPs. though, throttle management while dragging a knee out of a turn is difficult now….how the hell does one cope with that kind of power. I guess you drag guys can handle it? The Paxton blower on my 1990 Ford Bronco was very impressive. What a sleeper! The power gain was unreal! Good luck!
for the money I am wondering if the turbo will still put out better HP numbers though. Don't get me wrong, the supercharger is excellent and adds different benefits then the turbo as stated above, but I don't think the difference will be enough to make up for the ungodly amounts of HP you can currently get out of a turbo for roughly the same price.
Cloud
Cloud
SierraFlyer
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Turbos and blowers both accomplish the same thing - compressing incoming air - and the difference is how the compressor is driven. Turbos use exhaust gases to drive a turbine wheel on a shaft the impeller is on. A blower uses belts and pulleys off the crank to drive the shaft of the compressor. A Paxton type centrifugal blower is just half of a turbo. It uses belts and pulleys instead of the turbine wheel to drive the impeller.
A turbo has its advantages, its smaller, lighter and usually cheaper than a blower. It also has disadvantages. The biggest one is the lower abdiatic efficiency. That is the efficiency in which the air is compressed with the minimum of compression heating. Different types of compressors heat the compressing air more or less. There is a minimum heat of compression air (at 100% efficiency) due to the laws of thermodynamics. Anything less efficient is due to the compressor adding heat due to inefficiency. Turbos are centrifiugal type compressors and are non-positive displacement. That means the air flow can reverse through the impeller. They use air mass friction and angular momentum to accellerate the air and compress it. That method is inefficient compared to the positive displacement types. The turbo adds heat by conduction too. The hot section turbine is at about 900 degrees and is connected directly to the compressor impeller by a short shaft. This adds even more heat to the compressed air. The higher the air temp, the higher the probability to detonate. The Lysolm type compressor is the most efficient compressor available. It is a positive displacement type and is used in Whipple superchargers. The air charge can be 20-30 degrees cooler than other compressors. Then all compressors will be improved by intercoolers that further reduce air temp before it enters the engine. The lower that temp, the lower the probability of detonation and the higher boost you can run safely.
In drag racing the bottom line is if weight or space is most critical - go Turbo. If maximium boost without detonation is critical - go pos-displacement blower.
On the street there are other considerations. Turbos and centrifugal blowers are top heavy on boost. Meaning they build pressure non-linearly with RPM. The HP/torque is like stock at low RPM and will come on relatively abruptly in the upper RPM ranges. Not as bad as nitrous but not as good as positive displacement blowers. Pos/disp blowers build boost from idle linearly up to redline. You have more power than stock at all RPMs. Better low end torque results in faster accelleration as long as you can hook up that power to the road. Turbos also suffer from "lag" while the exhaust gas pressure builds up and spins up the turbine wheel. The result feels like a power surge a couple of moments after you twist the throttle. Not very predictable power if you are mid turn when it comes on. So for street, I would chose a blower.
A turbo has its advantages, its smaller, lighter and usually cheaper than a blower. It also has disadvantages. The biggest one is the lower abdiatic efficiency. That is the efficiency in which the air is compressed with the minimum of compression heating. Different types of compressors heat the compressing air more or less. There is a minimum heat of compression air (at 100% efficiency) due to the laws of thermodynamics. Anything less efficient is due to the compressor adding heat due to inefficiency. Turbos are centrifiugal type compressors and are non-positive displacement. That means the air flow can reverse through the impeller. They use air mass friction and angular momentum to accellerate the air and compress it. That method is inefficient compared to the positive displacement types. The turbo adds heat by conduction too. The hot section turbine is at about 900 degrees and is connected directly to the compressor impeller by a short shaft. This adds even more heat to the compressed air. The higher the air temp, the higher the probability to detonate. The Lysolm type compressor is the most efficient compressor available. It is a positive displacement type and is used in Whipple superchargers. The air charge can be 20-30 degrees cooler than other compressors. Then all compressors will be improved by intercoolers that further reduce air temp before it enters the engine. The lower that temp, the lower the probability of detonation and the higher boost you can run safely.
In drag racing the bottom line is if weight or space is most critical - go Turbo. If maximium boost without detonation is critical - go pos-displacement blower.
On the street there are other considerations. Turbos and centrifugal blowers are top heavy on boost. Meaning they build pressure non-linearly with RPM. The HP/torque is like stock at low RPM and will come on relatively abruptly in the upper RPM ranges. Not as bad as nitrous but not as good as positive displacement blowers. Pos/disp blowers build boost from idle linearly up to redline. You have more power than stock at all RPMs. Better low end torque results in faster accelleration as long as you can hook up that power to the road. Turbos also suffer from "lag" while the exhaust gas pressure builds up and spins up the turbine wheel. The result feels like a power surge a couple of moments after you twist the throttle. Not very predictable power if you are mid turn when it comes on. So for street, I would chose a blower.
SierraFlyer
Registered
No big deal really. I went to the book store and bought about 6 books on turbo and blower applications for race cars. Between them I figured out what was accurate and what was hype. I did this to get a basic understanding about boost before buying a blower/turbo for my boat. I figured it was better to buy a $8000 kit knowing exactly what I was buying. When you read ads they make claims for HP increase but fail to mention boost or if they are running intercoolers or if they are just talking peak power, etc. Until I read all that, I couldn't tell you much about either. Then I realized the turbo and blower are two ways of doing the same job. Then is was just picking the most efficient unit. That is the abdiatic efficiency rating. Getting that number from a manufacturer is almost impossible. They all protect that number closely and if they do give it out it is usually exaggerated. Kind of like the published HP specs on new bikes - rarely given and usually way off if they do.
Looking back at my boat application a softer torque curve would have been better. I have so much low end torque now the prop will cavitate and spinout if I drop the hammer all at once. With the positive displacement blower I have to give it half throttle intil I get a little momentum in the boat and then drop the hammer. That keeps the prop from churning the water into a froth. In a bike application with good traction, the positive displacement power curve woud be better. It would be more predictable power for a given throttle turn. I personally can't tolerate a bike that "lights up" suddenly in the middle of a turn. I want linear response where a given twist will give me a proportional power increase immediately. Thinking of dragsters, they use roots type blowers (pos-disp) and hook up nicely to the pavement. Roots are not as efficient but are available cheap and big enough for the monster air flow of dragsters. You never see turbos or cenrifugal blowers on dragsters except maybe the VW powered rails and that is probably for weight.
The lysolm (sp?) design is used in commercial air conditioning compressors mostly where efficiency is critical. Whipple is the US licensee for the technology as applied to engines. I saw that GM is using their units on suburbans as an option.
Looking back at my boat application a softer torque curve would have been better. I have so much low end torque now the prop will cavitate and spinout if I drop the hammer all at once. With the positive displacement blower I have to give it half throttle intil I get a little momentum in the boat and then drop the hammer. That keeps the prop from churning the water into a froth. In a bike application with good traction, the positive displacement power curve woud be better. It would be more predictable power for a given throttle turn. I personally can't tolerate a bike that "lights up" suddenly in the middle of a turn. I want linear response where a given twist will give me a proportional power increase immediately. Thinking of dragsters, they use roots type blowers (pos-disp) and hook up nicely to the pavement. Roots are not as efficient but are available cheap and big enough for the monster air flow of dragsters. You never see turbos or cenrifugal blowers on dragsters except maybe the VW powered rails and that is probably for weight.
The lysolm (sp?) design is used in commercial air conditioning compressors mostly where efficiency is critical. Whipple is the US licensee for the technology as applied to engines. I saw that GM is using their units on suburbans as an option.
in moderation, of course.....SierraFlyer
Registered
A couple of corrections, The spelling is "Lysholm" and "Adiabatic Efficiency". I was pulling the other spellings outa my a$$, So I pulled the books out this morning to check it. Ooops.
are there any positive kits available for the busa? i like the "two-stroke" feeling my turbo-10r puts out but to have that aggressive wheel spinning large bike nature from the get-go is typically my goal.
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