Buell dead and Harley on the brink!




Justyntym

The Pessimistic Optimist
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#41
I give a Harley a "minor" nod in the looks department but they get a big butt
whooping in the performance department and when I find something I love
in a metric (or a victory, love the Hammer) , that's cheaper and whole lot
stronger....Harley does not own a monoply on good looks (IMHO)

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BTW-Not really fond of the VTX series, honda can't seem to figure out to
MAKE THE MOTOR BLACK WITH CHROME :banghead:, they keep making them that ugly
battleship grey (like the new Harley Rockers :puke:).

The Victory Bagger is not my cup o' tea either. I'd jump all over the Kawi Voyager though
Actually I lean towards the Wingabago for a full tourer. At 900 lbs it'd still smoke
a Harley
 

Justyntym

The Pessimistic Optimist
Donating Member
Registered
#42
We could argue all day about pay/benefits etc, compared between the two countries.. In the end, there is a huge gap between them and us. Do we need to pay less and cut benefits ? Maybe so.. I know I wouldn't mind getting taxed less on my labor to support all our social programs. Maybe let our standard of living drop to theirs ? Sure.. You might want to go take a look at how the everyday worker lives though, I've seen it, it's not good...

Anyway, your last question, do I ride a BUSA... Yes I do.. I also ride a Harley, and drive an american truck.. Not sure why the jab about owning a Busa though ?? Should I not have bought one ???
I'm just digging ya a tad in fun...you stated you don't mind paying more
for an american product yet you didn't get a V-rod...you bought a Busa.

I understand it's a performance issue and maybe performance vs price as a
V-rod costs THOUSANDS more. But that's my point vs the cruisers as well.
Price vs performance and to further my point (or reiterate it) the large performance
gap isn't necessary if Harley would get off it's greed and stop trying to gleen
every last dollar off it's customers and just build the a better bike to begin
with and put the 110cu as standard.

And I know some of the crusier crowd doesn't mind the lack of power but who
here would turn it down. And there are some (like myself) that when it comes
time to buy a cruiser will be happy to pay less for more (and get something from
my post in pictures above), hence my original post, why harley doesn't have a
bigger market share. Albiet in the U.S. cruiser market, their share is substancial
but as the pie is shrinking, have a bigger slice maykeep them afloat.

As far as living and working in Japan...I bet it sucks (highly competitive) a lot
of that is due to space, overcrowding, and population though.
 

Bird Hunter

Donating Member
Registered
#43
I'm just digging ya a tad in fun...you stated you don't mind paying more
for an american product yet you didn't get a V-rod...you bought a Busa.

I understand it's a performance issue and maybe performance vs price as a
V-rod costs THOUSANDS more. But that's my point vs the cruisers as well.
Price vs performance and to further my point (or reiterate it) the large performance
gap isn't necessary if Harley would get off it's greed and stop trying to gleen
every last dollar off it's customers and just build the a better bike to begin
with and put the 110cu as standard.

And I know some of the crusier crowd doesn't mind the lack of power but who
here would turn it down. And there are some (like myself) that when it comes
time to buy a cruiser will be happy to pay less for more (and get something from
my post in pictures above), hence my original post, why harley doesn't have a
bigger market share. Albiet in the U.S. cruiser market, their share is substancial
but as the pie is shrinking, have a bigger slice maykeep them afloat.

As far as living and working in Japan...I bet it sucks (highly competitive) a lot
of that is due to space, overcrowding, and population though.

:laugh: Yeah, I did make up for not buying a V-Rod by buying a Harley cruiser, I admit it :laugh: :whistle: The best of both worlds to me though, no doubt about it.. The Busa is.... Well, a Busa.. No other words needed :thumbsup: A true badazz at the dragstrip !!! The Harley Streetglide I have, I love it as well.. :thumbsup:.. Yeah I paid more, yeah it has less power than it's competitors, but I love the looks, the feel, the ride, and best of all the american pride it gives me when I ride it..:usa::usa: I don't know, it's just how I am I guess. I'm a veteran, belong to the American Legion Riders, and love to show my support for our vets and our country when riding my Harley and wearing my ALR patch on my leathers.. :bowdown::beerchug:

I
 

Bird Hunter

Donating Member
Registered
#45

Poppy

Donating Member
Registered
#47
#48
I give a Harley a "minor" nod in the looks department but they get a big butt
whooping in the performance department and when I find something I love
in a metric (or a victory, love the Hammer) , that's cheaper and whole lot
stronger....Harley does not own a monoply on good looks (IMHO)

muzzy049.jpg


2f6df06e-ae74-4d62-a7be-93705b47873.jpg


bcc30b5c-7c24-42f0-a9a4-596f9b247cd.jpg


07bcabfa-16a1-446a-a79b-0e22adf6c7c.jpg


hammer_s_bw_1_1024x768.jpg






IMG_0714.jpg



BTW-Not really fond of the VTX series, honda can't seem to figure out to
MAKE THE MOTOR BLACK WITH CHROME :banghead:, they keep making them that ugly
battleship grey (like the new Harley Rockers :puke:).

The Victory Bagger is not my cup o' tea either. I'd jump all over the Kawi Voyager though
Actually I lean towards the Wingabago for a full tourer. At 900 lbs it'd still smoke
a Harley
lookie here at this thread...a VTX with a black engine
https://www.hayabusa.org/forum/general-bike-related-topics/118919-my-wife-jewel-traded-vtx.html
 

GoAWOL

Abiit, excessit, evasit
Donating Member
Registered
#50
not good news at all. i don't want to see another amercian company go belly up.
Ditto...just feels un-American rooting for the demise of an American built product when we hardly produce anything in this country any more. If I had the dough I definitely support HD by riding one of these beauties...

2007-harley-davidson-road-king.png
 

Liltroy

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Registered
#53
Suzuki's not in trouble? Do you really think a huge company dying in the US market and relying on scooter and commuter bike sales in 3rd world countries isn't in trouble?

Do you have a source of information that shows how well Suzuki is doing?

According to Businessweek, for the first half ended in Sept. 2009, Suzuki's net profit dropped by 63.4% from one year earlier and their operating profit tanked 47.5%.

I wonder if the new facility they're building in Thai will help their operating profits? Or will sales sink more because of people not wanting to buy products made in a country known for its forced child labor? ???
Suzuki's problems stem from their automotive line, NOT their bikes. Their bike sales are doing just fine everywhere but here. Thats the same story for honda, kawasaki, yamaha, ect. Nobodies selling bikes in the US right now. As for the 63% profit drop, this has been pretty consistant across the board as Honda had an even larger 71% profit drop in the 2009 fiscal year,while yamaha had a 91% drop! What has to be looked at here is the fact that these companies have a global presence and are still selling bikes elsewhere, giving them more means to cope with these losses than a company without one(such as HD). And since when are Japan, Europe,etc considered third world? Some of you guys are acting like these companies are trying to sell bikes to ethiopions or something. :rofl: And for all of you guys talking about "rooting for the demise of another American company", I'm doing no such thing. I was merely stating some facts that have been published lately. Do I love Harley Davidson? No. But that doesnt mean I want to see them go down, just pointing out that they're in bad shape right now and seeing what your opinions on the matter are. Like I said, my whole family rides HD aside from myself and as of a few months ago, my brother. But we still got 9 Harleys in the family. :thumbsup: Oh yea...as for my sources, there are hundreds but they can all be checked on by clicking this Google and entering the appropriate text.:laugh:
 

Turbo-Torch

Donating Member
Registered
#55
Suzuki's problems stem from their automotive line, NOT their bikes. Their bike sales are doing just fine everywhere but here. Thats the same story for honda, kawasaki, yamaha, ect. Nobodies selling bikes in the US right now. As for the 63% profit drop, this has been pretty consistant across the board as Honda had an even larger 71% profit drop in the 2009 fiscal year,while yamaha had a 91% drop! What has to be looked at here is the fact that these companies have a global presence and are still selling bikes elsewhere, giving them more means to cope with these losses than a company without one(such as HD). And since when are Japan, Europe,etc considered third world? Some of you guys are acting like these companies are trying to sell bikes to ethiopions or something. :rofl: And for all of you guys talking about "rooting for the demise of another American company", I'm doing no such thing. I was merely stating some facts that have been published lately. Do I love Harley Davidson? No. But that doesnt mean I want to see them go down, just pointing out that they're in bad shape right now and seeing what your opinions on the matter are. Like I said, my whole family rides HD aside from myself and as of a few months ago, my brother. But we still got 9 Harleys in the family. :thumbsup: Oh yea...as for my sources, there are hundreds but they can all be checked on by clicking this Google and entering the appropriate text.:laugh:
The losses I gave you are in YEN and for their global market as a whole. Those losses were NOT for the US market only.

I give you cold hard facts right out of Businessweek and you tell me to look things up on Google? Since you know they're doing so good you must have some links handy? Right? ???
 

Liltroy

Donating Member
Registered
#56
No, they're not doing "good", but they're doing as well as any other bike manufacturer right now and quit a bit better than HD! The losses you gave me were in percentage, not a specific monetary note and I googled and read the article as well. An increase in the strength of the Yen was partially blamed for the profit loss.You could post up a link to that article if you want as im on a phone and it would make it a pain in the rear for me to do so. I'm not going to post 100 links just for you but I will give you a "facts searching lesson" for this subject if thats what you need. All I typed in was "honda profit loss", "suzuki profit loss", ect and a magic thing happens.....many links show up! And yes, that precious business week is among them. as for the harley davidson info, that all started for me in the newest issue of Sport Rider and another google search turned up the rest. You dont have to take my word for it, but u do have to broaden you research to more than one magazine to get to whole picture. And google is an excellent source of "hard facts" as long as you only follow links to credible sources.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#57
I am a member of an MCC and over the years we have all now moved away from Harley Davidson. If you think there expensive in the US you want to see the prices in the UK!

The dealers over here are not willing to do a deal or move on price even in the current economic climate. We are now seeing a very sharp rise in Victory Motorcycles and Metric Cruisers which cant be good for HD. At least with a Victory you can buy the Motorcycle thats complete you dont have to do alot of mods like a HD.

Also Triumph are really hurting HD with the Rocket III over here!

I hope they survive as they are a real part of motorcycling history it would be a real shame to see them go under.

I myself have a Kwak 900 which I chopped (couldnt afford a HD)

Chopper.jpg
 

Turbo-Torch

Donating Member
Registered
#59
No, they're not doing "good", but they're doing as well as any other bike manufacturer right now and quit a bit better than HD! The losses you gave me were in percentage, not a specific monetary note and I googled and read the article as well. An increase in the strength of the Yen was partially blamed for the profit loss.You could post up a link to that article if you want as im on a phone and it would make it a pain in the rear for me to do so. I'm not going to post 100 links just for you but I will give you a "facts searching lesson" for this subject if thats what you need. All I typed in was "honda profit loss", "suzuki profit loss", ect and a magic thing happens.....many links show up! And yes, that precious business week is among them. as for the harley davidson info, that all started for me in the newest issue of Sport Rider and another google search turned up the rest. You dont have to take my word for it, but u do have to broaden you research to more than one magazine to get to whole picture. And google is an excellent source of "hard facts" as long as you only follow links to credible sources.
Posted via Mobile Device


I don't care about the profit loss for Honda or Kawasaki. You claim motorcycle sales are doing well in other countries for Suzuki and keep taking the time to reply on this forum, yet you can't provide just one link.
All I'm asking for is just one link showing the strong sales of Suzuki motorcycles in other countries...it can even include scooters or small commuters which are a way of life in many countries.

And tell me...if we took the sales of high end Suzuki cruisers, gixxers Busas, ATVs ect for 2009, what countries bought more of those than the US? Was it in places like the UK and Japan where you have to be very weathly just to get out of an apartment and into a house?
 
#60
Harleys are feeble compared to sport bikes. But they are not designed to be fast - period.

Harley's say slow down enjoy the ride. It's just not a concept a lot of folks here are used to.

Harley Davidson is in trouble because of the economy, changing demographics - they having trouble putting riders in the pipeline as younger riders are more likely to ride sports these days, overestimating on-going growth demand, They failed to crack the youth market with Buell and Aprilila, and as everyone has said price point. Why would you buy a Harley when a comparble japanese bike cost 30% less but to only say i've got a Harley. People generally stay with brands unless they find them unreliable - so if your buy a metric on cost your likely to stay there, because bikes today generally reliable. Japanese have been slowing chipping away at Harley for the better part of two decades.

All this said, Harleys have a unique feel and sound. Many people love theirs Harleys with a passion.

I hope all the companies survive not because I won't be able to buy a bike but thriving companies mean jobs for people whether here or in Japan or somewhere else - Jobs are life.
 

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