broken chains  HELP!!

[HAYABUSA413]

Two years ago, I bought my first Busa, used pretty much stock with 2500 miles on it.  Fastest coolest bike I've ever ridden.  That bike lasted two weeks, when the chain broke at about 50mph passing a car.  That caused $9500 worth of damage   (engine case, swing arm, sprockets, etc...)

Then I bought another busa, also used with 3000 miles on it.  This bike was slightly built.  Just a race pipe, pcII, air box, TRE, all the usual bolt on stuff.  500 miles later, the chain broke again.  This time about $1500 in damages.  I was told by my local dealership, that i had to have genuine suzuki chain and sprockets.  So thats what I bought.  The bike went another 500 miles, and you can figure out where I'm going with this.  When the bike was in my driveway with a broken chain, someone stole the damn thing GOOD RIDDENS!!!  

Of course I had to have another busa.  I just bought my current one.  a 2002 with 1800 miles on it, completely stock.  The chain was in good shape when I bought it.  But of course about 250 miles later, It has been stretched to the point where I ran out of adjustment on the swing arm.  Before breaking another, I went to a local shop.  I was told by them, that EK made a race chain good for about 500 hp.  "You'll never even stretch this one, never mind break it" I was told.  2 miles (yes only 2 miles) later, it was stretched loose again.  I figured that was normal break in.  After riding it for one evening (about 60 miles), I have adjusted the chain three times, and gone throught 4 of the swing arm marks.

I'm sure your gonna say I'm tightening it too much.  But it has been adjusted by 3 local shops, (two suzuki dealers, and one race shop.)  Every time they adjust it, its loose to the point where it's slipping on the sprocket within 50 miles or less.  And yes I have also checked the alignment of the sprockets to be sure somethings not out of wack.  And remember this is three seperate bikes.  I ride it hard, but thats what its made for, isnt it??  I weigh about 220 lbs. so I don't think thats the problem.  I do a good number of wheelies, and rolling 40mph burnouts, but I've done that with all my bikes, and never had a single chain problem.
Sorry about the length of this, but you need all the details to understand what I've been through.  Any help would be appreciated, thanks either way.
                                   Todd

 

[Mr. Busa]

I do a good number of wheelies, and rolling 40mph burnouts, but I've done that with all my bikes, and never had a single chain problem.
Sorry about the length of this, but you need all the details to understand what I've been through.  Any help would be appreciated, thanks either way.
                                   Todd

theres your problem...The busa has a hell of alot more tourque than any other bikes. Im impressed the chain lasted that long

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

Just curious....how often do you ride this hard.
I've never heard of such bad luck er whatever you may call it.
BTW welcome to the board 413.

 

[monsterspeedfreak]

I'd lay off the rolling 40mph burnouts if I were you.
I wheelie all the time and have had no major problems, besides stretching chains (normal for how I ride) but those burnouts with 220 lbs on board....that's a little rough on it.

 

[HAYABUSA413]

I PRETTY MUCH RIDE THAT WAY ALL THE TIME.  IS IT REALLY ALL THAT RARE FOR PEOPLE TO DO STUFF LIKE THAT?  MOST OF THE GUYS I RIDE WITH DO THE SAME THINGS.  I KNEW THAT WOULD MAKE THINGS WEAR A LOT FASTER BUT I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS BAD ENOUGH TO MAKE THE CHAIN BREAK WITHIN 500 MILES.  DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A CHAIN THAT COULD TAKE THAT KIND OF ABUSE?  HOW DO PEOPLE DRAG RACE? ISN'T A GOOD LAUNCH OFF THE LINE A LOT HARDER ON A CHAIN THAN A BURNOUT?

THANKS FOR THE WELCOME MONSTERSPEEDFREAK

 

[The Oracle]

I do the wheelie thingy all of the time too... Never do burnouts though. To rough on tires for me. 'Busa eats 'em up as it is!! No chain problems here... But, I only have 1900 miles on her.

BTW - did the warranty cover any of those damages?

Also, to the board DOo.oOD!

 

[HAYABUSA413]

the warranty didn't cover any of it!! They said it was from abuse. They are probably right now that i see it's happened on three bikes, It's obviously me, not the bike.
BTW, I can't make it more than 500 miles, you've already gone 1900. GOOD JOB!!

 

[FLCN72]

There were some recommendations for heavy duty chains made by some of the guys who have turbos, NOS, etc. Do a search on chains and see what comes up.

I think you are right about the chain stretching too much. 500 - 1000 miles is way too little even for heavy use in my opinion.

But if you to a lot of wheelies and burnouts when you ride, then I wouldn't expect those chains to last much past 4000 miles.

 

[ks-waterbug]

Not to get to personel but are you a large framed person? When you come down from a wheelie, is it done gently? Finally, is the bike geared? Ok, one more. When you say you adjust your chain can you explain how you do it and how you check the chain tension? Answer some of these and I'll bet we can eliminate most of the problems your having with your chains not lasting.....................

 

[ks-waterbug]

Sag Adjustment
A drive chain that is too tight speeds up wear by excessive pressure on the sprocket teeth, the chain joints and the shaft bearings. A chain that is too loose will wear quickly and may have a whip action that can cause it to snap. A chain that is too tight or too loose will result in excessive elongation. Normal sag (see diagram) is 3/4"*. To check, press down on the top strand of the drive chain with your fingers. Tighten or loosen to achieve 3/4"*.

*This is normal sag, however, your specific motorcycle requirements may vary. Please consult your dealer or owners manual. For motocross motorcycles, please consult the owner's manual or a qualified mechanic.

Sprocket Alignment
It is important to check sprockets for wear periodically. If wear occurs on the side of the teeth, it means there is misalignment, a condition which will result in greatly reduced chain life. Check sprocket alignment visually by sighting across them from the rear of the motorcycle or by placing a ruler against them to see if they are in the same plane. Realign or replace as required. When new sprockets are installed, they should be carefully aligned on the shafts with a straight edge. Misalignment increases drive noise level and also increases chain and sprocket wear. Chains operating on misaligned sprockets have a tendency to develop tight joints because sprocket teeth force the inside plates outward on the bushings,thus binding the joint.

 

[HAYABUSA413]

I'm 6'5", and I weigh 225#. I'm pretty good at wheelies, so they usually come down pretty gently. this bike is totaly stock, except for a T.R.E.. I just put an E.K gold series chain on it about 50 miles ago(already stretched 3 swingarm lines). It has a strength of 10,500?? I'm not sure if thats tinsel strength or what, but I was told thats stronger than the stock chain.
I checked the manual, and asked the dealer to show me how to adjust the chain after I broke the first one. They told me to roll the bike until the chain is at it's tightest point, and tighten it until I had about 3/4" of up and down movement on the bottom of the chain. After thats done, I sit on the bike and reach down to make sure the chain is the same with weight on the bike.
I didnt quite understand how you said to do it.

"press down on the top strand of the drive chain with your fingers. Tighten or loosen to achieve 3/4"*."

could you explain that any differently?

 

[ks-waterbug]

I'm on my wifes computer so I can't type or enter info fast enough..... I'll get back to this in a day. Almost all chains come pre-stretched from the factory.........
So I'm alittle concerned that this adjustment had to be made with only 50 miles on the bike.....

 

[Mr. Busa]

yes that is the DRZ 530 chain. those are some huge chains. It kinda sounds like your overtightening the chain. try letting it run a little looser and see how that works

 

[HAYABUSA413]

BY 50 MILES, I WAS AT ABOUT MY 3RD CHAIN ADJUSTMENT. I TEST DROVE THE BIKE AROUND THE SHOP THAT INSTALLED THE CHAIN. I WENT 1 TO 1.5 MILES, AND IT NEEDED 1/2 OF A TICK ON THE SWING ARM. 25 MILES LATER, 1/2 TO 5/8 OF A TICK, 25 MILES LATER 1/2 TO 5/8 OF ANOTHER LINE. SO AFTER ABOUT 50 MILES I WENT THROUGH A LITTLE OVER 2 SWING ARM LINES.
I HEARD OF A CHAIN CALLED A DRZ OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. I HEARD THATS WHAT THE DRAG BIKES USE. I WAS TOLD IT WILL RIDE A LITTLE ROUGHER, AND LOUDER, BUT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE STRONGEST CHAIN AROUND. EVENTUALLY, I MUST BE ABLE TO FIND SOMETHING I CAN'T BREAK!! ONLY TIME WILL TELL. I DO APPRECIATE ALL THIS HELP!

 

[SierraFlyer]

This problem is not normal at all and I can't believe you are doing anything to even a stock chain just by getting on it hard? There are people out here with turbos running 400+ HP. And they don't have this kind of problem. I pound mine (chain that is) and have no significant strech.

The spec is 24 - 30mm of chain slack. That is 1" minimum to 1.25" maximum. 3/4" is not enough. You have it too tight.

1 inch minimum allows the swingarm to move through it entire range and not take out ALL of the chain slack. As it is, you would sit on the bike which would take out all of the slack and put tension on the chain without any power applied. Once riding, the chain would be supporting your weight in the strech and try to pull the power to the wheel. It wouldn't take long to heat up the chain in that condition and burn up the rivets internally. And if the shops have been telling you 3/4", go and kick thier a$$es and make them buy you a new chain and some sprockets because they are probably notched now too.

The technique from the manual is: Put the bike in neutral and on its sidestand. Find the center of the bottom length of the chain measured between the swingarm pivot and where the chain first touches the rear sprocket. Push down on the chain there until the slack is gone. Put a ruler or caliper on the center of the rivet near where you are pushing. Then without moving the ruler, push up on the chain in the same place until all the slack is gone (You can't push too hard and the chain shouldn't break). The difference between the center of the rivet - top to bottom - should be 1 and 1/8th inch exactly (+/- 1/8th inch). And this is when the bike is on the side stand, not a swingarm stand. Don't measure at all the slack when you are sitting on it. It doesn't matter.

With a new 530 DID or RK chain, adjusted as I talk about above, you should get 10,000 to 15,000 miles if you keep it lubed. And it shouldn't matter how many wheelies or burnouts you do.

Better Luck!

 

[MET]

BY 50 MILES, I WAS AT ABOUT MY 3RD CHAIN ADJUSTMENT.  I TEST DROVE THE BIKE AROUND THE SHOP THAT INSTALLED THE CHAIN.  I WENT 1 TO 1.5 MILES, AND IT NEEDED 1/2 OF A TICK ON THE SWING ARM.  25 MILES LATER, 1/2 TO 5/8 OF A TICK, 25 MILES LATER 1/2 TO 5/8 OF ANOTHER LINE. SO AFTER ABOUT 50 MILES I WENT THROUGH A LITTLE OVER  2 SWING ARM LINES.  
I HEARD OF A CHAIN CALLED A DRZ OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.  I HEARD THATS WHAT THE DRAG BIKES USE.  I WAS TOLD IT WILL RIDE A LITTLE ROUGHER, AND LOUDER, BUT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE STRONGEST CHAIN AROUND.  EVENTUALLY, I MUST BE ABLE TO FIND SOMETHING I CAN'T BREAK!! ONLY TIME WILL TELL. I DO APPRECIATE ALL THIS HELP!

Check that your adjusters are not bent. As all jhavce said this is not normal. For you to go that short either the adjusters or the hup is out of wack. Even on my Turbo I can go hundreds of miles before adjustment is needed.

 

[HAYABUSA413]

In the begining of all this trouble, I adjusted to an inch of sag in the chain.  Thats the measurement I used on all of my other bikes.  After the second chain broke, I've taken all kinds of advice on chain tension, and I've tried a few different tensions between all 3 busa's that I've owned.  and yet I've broken probably 6 or 7 chains.  Even when the chain is at an inch of sag, it still stretches to the point of slipping on the sprocket during a wheelie.  I don't tighten it until it's loose(2+" of sag).  So I really don't think adjustment is the problem.
I used to measure it with a metric ruler, because the manual said 25-30 mm or (20 to 30 mm), and thats what I did.  I wasn't sure of the conversion, when I said 3/4".  
I haven't been doing the rolling burners since I started this topic.  The chain hasen't stretched, I still do plenty of wheelies though.  Does anyone else do the rolling burnouts? I would usually be going about 40-60mph, usually in 2nd gear, rev it up and pop the clutch and smoke the tire for 10-15 seconds.  I think the initial whack on the chain before the tire spins, is what was stretching it.  I just don't understand why.  a Turbo Busa launching off the line should hurt it worse than that. Shouldn't it?
And Ninja Eater, This is my 3rd busa.  On my second Busa, they talked me into changing the hub, axle, cush drive, bearings, front sprocket, rear sprocket, and chain to fix the problem, and that chain didn't last 300 miles before breaking.  Thats why I'm beginning to realize that it's something I'm doing while riding the bike or.  I can't have 3 Busa's with the same rare problem.

 

[ks-waterbug]

Sorry just got back from being out of town........
Looks like the board has come through again...... I agree with what I'm reading. This is not a normal condition and the 3/4" sag adjustment is not a strait across the board measurement for ALL chain manufactures. Merely a starting point for investigating your problem....... I would take NE's advice and check wheel alignment. Then I would speak directly with the manufacture of the chain your running to set the sag (Sierra Flyer's advice)........... They have you running in the right direction.

 

[Barrybusa]

Man it sounds like you could do with a 1200cc bandit to abuse and then you could treat your Busa with a bit of TLC.
Had my Busa for couple of years now and do plenty of 2nd and 3rd gear blasts ..clean and lube my chain weekly..just got 4000 miles on the clock and chain and sprockets are still in perfect condition..just love and respect my bike.
all the best bud.

 

[PaceMaster]

Your chain snapping problem is very strange,,,I have 11,000 plus miles on mine....it's the one with the blue master link..that narcissus sez is subject to low life expectency...
Hmm....We talk about measuring pins...for wear....
Bottom line-----------Our modern o-ring chains come prelubed
internally...the chain lube you apply is only good for the o-rings and sprocket teeth.......So, when you put a new chain on....first at install adjustment...then only a few hard miles...
readjust..to perfection.....I like to sit on the bike...1 inch or so ,so that the chain is never too tight...just right......then just maybe a few thousand miles later adjust again...should only need a very minor adjustment............
I don't care about checking pin length..by the time it has stretched that far you should see "red oxide rust" coming out of the o-rings.....there is no point in running that chain one more mile---it's done..time for a new one.As the sprockets now suffer.
Trouble is..tires don't last...as long as the chain..so adjusting to the same place as before is critical...too loose bad ,too tight bad....I put 40,000 miles on a 85 Ninja...four chains,sprockets were still like new.......and man did i beat on that scooter..no mercy...clutch fan wheelies...top speed,at the drags..etc.....soon as i saw the red rust...put a new one on. Ps I am totally amazed that you snap and adjust chains like you say.....maybe a "No offence" Bogus" problem...
I know what i am talking about..spent way to much cash on this subject..never broke a chain..and i do wheelies all the time..5k roll off snap on..up she goes......Let us all know if you solved this problem...Sincerly PaceM.