Bov and turbo questions


#1
Hello everyone I am new to the .org and wanted to say hello. I have a 2002 hayabusa with 10,xxx miles with a innovative turbo systems turbo (not sure of size), begi fmu and tial f38 waste gate I'm told it has an 8psi spring, pc3 USB and muffler (not sure what brand. That's all the mods that I know of. I have been having issues with idling, it sometimes cuts out when decelerating or when I'm at a complete stop.i have changed plugs and synced carbs, I've looked for a fuel filter under tank and in tank but I can't seem to find one. I recently sent the fuel injectors to rc engineering to be balanced and ultrasonically cleaned. I also have some oil fouling of the plugs. I loosened the return like for the turbo just a tad and oil immediately came out so I'm thinking oil is back feeding into the turbo causing the plugs to foul. It smokes a tad on start up but goes away while riding. Recently I was blowing carbon out (lol) and when I let off the throttle I seen a puff of smoke. I a planning to get the big cc scavenge pump kit as I heard this has solved some people's oiling issues. And the bov, I am wanting to go with a tial qr, I'm not sure if a recirculating valve would be any better than a standard bov. Thanks for the replys in advance.
 

Moparict

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#3
Did you change altitude or climates with the bike? What is your AFR at idle? Is your base fuel pressure still correct? A puff of smoke from the turbo is normal after a good "cleaning out". What did you set your plug gap to?
 
#5
I believe the guy I bought it from said he had got it from North Carolina and i live in South louisiana. I have not checked fuel pressure yet, are you referring pressure at the rail? I also have not checked that afr yet. I talked to a local shop and said they could check the afr, is there a way I could check this myself for a reasonable price?. The plugs are gapped at 28 thou, is this correct? I am new to fuel injection and I'm kinda at the end of what I know so all help is appreciated.
 

Moparict

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#6
At your boost levels the plugs are fine. I was referring to what fuel pressure you have at the rail. It is important to know the original tune and pressures so that you have a baseline to refer back to if something changes. Other than installing an O2 gauge for AFR, a dyno would be your best bet. It sounds to me like the "deceleration" map in the PC3 might be a touch off, assuming all other parameters are confirmed to be correct. I prefer a BOV and not a recirculation valve. If you are not meeting emissions standards, let it go to atmosphere. Although, I can't see spending the money and doing the fab work for a BOV at your boost level unless you are racing. Double check your oil return line to make sure it isn't kinked also. That can cause havoc with oil staying in the turbo. Hope some of this helps.
 
#7
I have not checked fuel pressure yet but i went out and got a gauge today so a fuel pressure check is on the way. I will take it to the dyno when i get a chance. I have been thinking about taking the pc off just to see what it does. Im thinking the tune could be slightly off asyou stated. Why do you prefer a bov instead of a recirculation? J.w im n
 
#8
I have not checked fuel pressure yet but i went out and got a gauge today so a fuel pressure check is on the way. I will take it to the dyno when i get a chance. I have a drip from the compressor side of the turbo so i will get scavenge pump before dyno trip. I have been thinking about taking the pc off just to see what it does. Im thinking the tune could be slightly off asyou stated. Why do you prefer a bov instead of a recirculation? im not sure how hard these things are to install. From what ive seen the tial qr comes with a vband so a lil welding and some hose routing? I will be doing some racing but i would like to have some room tO grow later on. Checked the drain line and no kinks or anything from what i see.
 

Moparict

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#9
I prefer the BOV because there is less piping. Simply weld on a flange and install the BOV. I'm a fan of the "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) method. A turbo system, by its very nature, can become complex and overwhelming at times. Removing the PC will mess up your tune and potentially cause severe engine damage (read melted motor). It doesn't take much to hurt a motor. I know, I've blown or melted three of them over the years.

I would advise again to take it to the dyno and just see what the bike is doing. It is the best money for peace of mind you will ever spend. You will be able to monitor fuel pressure, boost pressure, AFR and many other things to make sure everything is spot on. I'm not sure where you are located, but finding a tuner who is familiar with a turbo Busa would be preferable. I watched a dyno operator blow my last motor because he got excited and wanted to be a hero instead of keeping the AFR safe.
 
#10
Kiss method lol nice one! I think i will also go with a bov too. Does adding a bov require retune? Just curiousIm trieng to get some bugs worked out before taking to the dyno. I went over vacuum lines an came across a bad rubber cap. I also foind a bad check valve on the line to map sensor, it has two. We dont have anyone that specializes in turbo bikes here but there is a shop that does great work on n/a bikesand said they could put it on a dyno to check the things youve stated, i would just hate to pay the dyno fee twice. Ivr also heard of stedmans motorsports but thats 7 hours away, but ive heard they have great service and specialize in turbo hayabusas, so im willing to take the drive. Theres also third coast speed thats 3 hours away that works on turbo bikes. I will be doin a fuel pressure test soon i have heard that the begi fmus are known to break the shim. I will not remove the pc as you said i definately do not want to melt a motor. Thanks for all the info its greatly appreciated im ready to ride this thing and not smell like gas lol. Its a great bike just needed a lil freshening up.
 

Moparict

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#11
Adding the BOV will not require a re-tune normally. All a BOV really does it keep the turbo spooled up, by letting off pressure, when letting off the throttle for gear changes and such. That way, when you get back on the throttle, the turbo is more up to speed then if it had boost pressure that it would have to build against. You can see it open when you rev up your bike and let off the throttle. I drove 9 hours to have mine tuned properly and many others have driven farther. Ask yourself how much the motor is worth to you because if you're wrong, you'll find out how much it is worth in a hurry!!! LOL!!
 
#12
Well i finally got around to testing the fuel pressureand itwas set to 20 psi! Ive read it should be around 42-43soisetit at 43. Alaowent down to the parts store and picked up a check valve to put inlne with map sensor. What a difference! The bike idles awsome now. Mpg was at 19 now it was showing 46 and climbing. Just now found out the other check valve is bad so iwent ahead Nd ordered two more. Iknow there is alot of factors in dyno tuning but could you give me a ball park of what a dyno tune might cost?
 

Moparict

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#13
Here in Wichita, KS they charge around $250 to tune a bike. Although, I took mine to Johny Cheese in Round Rock, TX. That is assuming there are no issues and everything is ready to go. This is another one of those "How much is my motor worth to me" type of things. Some dyno operators will let you make three pulls just to make sure everything is OK for $30-50. If it checks out OK, then great. If it doesn't, tune it.
 
#14
The place i talked to said 300-500 for a tune. I think it was high because i told them my fmu would need to be set. I will be sending my unit to begi for the upgrade, not sure if its bad but it wouldnt hurt to have it upgraded. Do you have your ecu flashed? I have read that flashing the ecu can make the bike run smoother? Thats wht i was hoping for. Im guessing for 300-500 that would come with two or three pulls on the dyno assuming everything is ok. What turbo set up do you have? Have you heard of the bigcc scavenge pump or know if it works well? I am about to purchase along with check valves, im hoping this will stop the oil from drainingbout the compressor.
 

Moparict

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#15
My kit is pieced together. It is a Velocity Stage 2 Race plenum and a RCC header with a Master Power turbo. I am running a Bosch 044 pump with ID1000 injectors, so I don't use the secondary system at all. My ECU is flashed only for my shifter and rev limits (hard cut) and some other small changes to make it easier to tune. I run a PCV with a 3-Bar MAP sensor. You can't go wrong with BigCC stuff. It is quality stuff. I would look to the drain line going back to the oil pan and make sure it is not kinked. Try to run the largest drain line you can. I run a -10 line and would run a -12 if it would fit my 1" oil pan. Once you get the FMU right and the tune right, it should run like a stocker out of boost.
 
#16
You said that you had some oil on your spark plugs. I advise you to keep a check on those plugs because if the oil keeps getting on your plugs then you could have burnt as piston. The turbo will not put oil in the combustion chamber. So double check that before you start buying other stuff that could be the main problem
 
#17
How far are you from round rock TX/ Waco. Check out Johnny Cheese. Make sure to have the oil on spark plug issue cleaned up first though. I think he just tunes now but may do some small stuff if needed
 

Moparict

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#18
You said that you had some oil on your spark plugs. I advise you to keep a check on those plugs because if the oil keeps getting on your plugs then you could have burnt as piston. The turbo will not put oil in the combustion chamber. So double check that before you start buying other stuff that could be the main problem
He'll give you a tool and tell you to fix it yourself!!! LOL!!
 
#20
You said that you had some oil on your spark plugs. I advise you to keep a check on those plugs because if the oil keeps getting on your plugs then you could have burnt as piston. The turbo will not put oil in the combustion chamber. So double check that before you start buying other stuff that could be the main problem
I thought it was oil because i had oil dripping out of my filter. I have a early turbo kit and i have heard that they were known for having the turbo low. The bike smokes white a bit on start up so i figured it was oil. I have hear that the bigcc scavenge pump with check valves fixed this problem so i will give it a go.
 

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