Bizarre Gear/rev Issue!

[Shaun Ketterman]

Hey everyone, starting a new thread to get some assist with this 'hanging' rev issue I have. I may have found the cause, so to speak, and it is WEIRD.

Please have a read!

(Bike is normal op temp, fast idle is off, idle speed is set @ 1200)

1. I accelerate on the freeway up to 60MPH. White in 6th gear, I pull clutch in. Revs fall down at a decent speed, but then 'hang' at 2000RPM, and do not drop any lower.

2. I continue coasting with the clutch pulled in. I click down into 5th gear position (clutch remains pulled). Nothing changes.

3. I click down into 4th gear, clutch still pulled in. Revs instantly fall to normal idle speed!

4. While STILL coasting, I proceed to click down into each gear, all the way down to 1st, NEVER releasing the clutch. All gears below 4th keep the idle at 1200.

5. Since I'm slowing down quite I bit, I accelerate back up to 70MPH in 4th gear, pull clutch. Revs fall down to normal idle!

6. I click up into 5th gear, clutch remains pulled. Revs surge back up to 2000!

7. I click back down into 4th, clutch still pulled, revs fall back down!

Through this entire process I want to stress that I NEVER release the clutch and NEVER apply throttle (except for when I need to speed back up...I'm on the freeway :-).

What the actual fxck is going on?? Basically, when I click into 5th or 6th, my RPMs automatically go UP from 1200 to 2000, with the damn clutch in! All other gears, revs fall down to normal idle speed when the clutch is pulled. I did this over and over and over (and over) to be absolutely certain. It is always the same. Additionally, sometimes, but not always, when I stop, and put the bike in nuetral, the engine speed increases up to around 1700RPM.

Also worth noting is that in gears 1-4, when I pull the clutch, the engine speed will drop normally, but once the RPM's get to ~1700, there is a noticeable slowdown in deceleration.

Please tell me someone here knows what the heck is going on?!?


Shaun

 

[David Offor]

So, everything at 4th and below is fine?
Could it be ECU related, if I remember rightly, there is an individual 'map' for each gear, is it possible that the maps have become corrupted? Can you borrow someone's ECU, it's a simple swap and no risk to the donor.
Another thing, I know that after 2001 the busas are restricted to 186mph and people get around this by fitting a tre, so the bike is tricked into reading a different map when it's in 5th, I'm not 100% sure tho, do you have a tre fitted?
The other thing is the gear position sensor.
Both these things are a bit beyond me, I'm afraid, hope someone else can offer something.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

So, everything at 4th and below is fine?
Could it be ECU related, if I remember rightly, there is an individual 'map' for each gear, is it possible that the maps have become corrupted? Can you borrow someone's ECU, it's a simple swap and no risk to the donor.
Another thing, I know that after 2001 the busas are restricted to 186mph and people get around this by fitting a tre, so the bike is tricked into reading a different map when it's in 5th, I'm not 100% sure tho, do you have a tre fitted?
The other thing is the gear position sensor.
Both these things are a bit beyond me, I'm afraid, hope someone else can offer something.

Yeah 5th and 6th do it, and it does it in neutral as well, though the RPMs surge to 1700 in neutral vice 2000 like the gears do. I'm completely uneducated with gear maps, tre's, etc. I wouldn't even know how to tell if my bike has a tre, though I would highly suspect it does not.

I've located how to remove and test the GPS in my bike, it's a matter of finding the time to do so...looks like you have to pull the clutch first, which requires draining the oil. Ugh.

 

[sixpack577]

Yeah 5th and 6th do it, and it does it in neutral as well, though the RPMs surge to 1700 in neutral vice 2000 like the gears do. I'm completely uneducated with gear maps, tre's, etc. I wouldn't even know how to tell if my bike has a tre, though I would highly suspect it does not.

I've located how to remove and test the GPS in my bike, it's a matter of finding the time to do so...looks like you have to pull the clutch first, which requires draining the oil. Ugh.

You shouldnt have to drain the oil.
Very little will come out with the bike leaned over on the kickstand.
And you would'vd found a TRE by now.

 

[David Offor]

A TRE is a small squarish box, that plugs in, between the loom and the gear position sensor plug, it's an aftermarket device, a lot of people use it to bypass the 186mph limit, that the motor industry imposed on itself.
I've heard a few people say that they go wrong often and many owners fitted them, so it's possible that you just haven't noticed it being there.
Lift the tank and it will be obvious, if your bike has one, if it's there, just unplug it and plug the gps back into the loom and test the bike again.

 

[fallenarch]

Is it possible that the map switch that happens at the higher gears increases the idle speed for safety? If you pulling the clutch and the engine slows down too much it might snatch the tire when you let the clutch out, so maybe they set the idle speed a bit faster in those gears. Just a thought.

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

Is it possible that the map switch that happens at the higher gears increases the idle speed for safety? If you pulling the clutch and the engine slows down too much it might snatch the tire when you let the clutch out, so maybe they set the idle speed a bit faster in those gears. Just a thought.

This is certainly a possibility, but the only way I'd really know for sure if is whoever might be following this thread went out for a ride to test and see if their bike does it as well. Pretty much just accelerate, bump up to 5th or 6th, pull the clutch in, and see where your needle stops. I'm on a 2007 for comparison...

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

You shouldnt have to drain the oil.
Very little will come out with the bike leaned over on the kickstand.
And you would'vd found a TRE by now.

Thanks for the reply, six. Well that's a little good news. Yeah, I don't think there is a TRE, or it's hidden very cleverly somewhere.

A TRE is a small squarish box, that plugs in, between the loom and the gear position sensor plug, it's an aftermarket device, a lot of people use it to bypass the 186mph limit, that the motor industry imposed on itself.
I've heard a few people say that they go wrong often and many owners fitted them, so it's possible that you just haven't noticed it being there.
Lift the tank and it will be obvious, if your bike has one, if it's there, just unplug it and plug the gps back into the loom and test the bike again.

Hyphothetically - if this bike, at one point or another, had either a TRE or a PC of some sort, or rather, ANY device that can alter these gear maps, or A/F ratios, speed limiters, etc, etc, is there any way that there are still 'residual' settings stored in my ECM, and that could be causing issues since the device is no longer present?

Or, is there a way to 'reset' the ECM to 100% factory settings? I've had the battery unplugged a few times already, so if that does it, my question is already answered. Just brainstorming all possibilities!


Shaun

 

[sixpack577]

No sir.
A power commader or tre only "piggybacks" into the ecu.
No changes are permanent to the ecu.
Once the pc or tre is unplugged, its changes are gone with it.
Ecu Editor is what makes semi permanent changes to the ecu. As those changes remain until you change it again.
And only 02 and newer models can be flashed with Ecu Editor.
Maybe your ecu does have a fault, but normally they either work or they don't, or have almost no function at all, as well as the bike not starting.
However I cannot say for sure.
Sorry I cant be of more help.

 

[Cantab]

Could someone screw things up with a Teka Tune ?

http://www.factorypro.com/TEKA_SFI_1/TEKA_Suz_SFI_CLASSIC_procedure.html

 

[GIXERHP]

What are you doing riding in 5th and 6th gear at those RPMs.

If you want fuel economy a Busa is not the bike.

In the higher gears the maps change vastly to feed the motor that is needed.

Down shift, and ride the bike.

 

[David Offor]

What are you doing riding in 5th and 6th gear at those RPMs.

If you want fuel economy a Busa is not the bike.

In the higher gears the maps change vastly to feed the motor that is needed.

Down shift, and ride the bike.

Still shouldn't hold 2000rpm in neutral, with the clutch pulled in, in any gear and he has the problem with the constantly changing syncing, by itself, sounds electrical, some sensor or ECU problem, maybe.

 

[RansomT]

Clutch switch?

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

What are you doing riding in 5th and 6th gear at those RPMs.

If you want fuel economy a Busa is not the bike.

In the higher gears the maps change vastly to feed the motor that is needed.

Down shift, and ride the bike.

The speed Im going is arbitrary, those were just the examples.

To that point, though, the speed Im goingat the time appears to have no impact. Riding into work this morning I decided to test it at low speed. Clicking into 5th at 25 causes it to do it

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

Clutch switch?

Anything ideas are appreciated, thanks Ransom. Ill look it up in the clymer manual after work

 

[Shaun Ketterman]

Clutch switch?

Ransom, I just remembered that you mentioned this, and I thought of a weird issue I have that, in some realm of possibility, might be a related issue.

I put on a set of adjustable shorty levers right after buying the bike. Each lever has 6 positions. My bike will not start unless I have the clutch lever in the 6th (i.e., largest) position. Any way this is relevant?