ATTN: Busa & Sportbike Owning Service Men...

JINKSTER

JINKSTER

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I just posted this copy and paste below that i had replied to another thread and then realized i had meant to pass this onto all my bretheren here at h.org as i feel it's 1st hand info that definantly merits it's own thread and that i NEEDED & FELT OBLIGATED to share and pass on..

Just a couple months back i was working on a saturday morning and our shop is right next to a church and the men were having their breakfast buffet..one of the guys sorting the parking situation was admiring my busa...turned out he was retired usn and currently a MSF Instructor...then in chatting (as i wolfed down a plate of sausage bisquets & gravy) he passed onto me the following stats and info..and as it turns out?..he said..

"there's been a spike in the amount of service men dying on sportbikes..especially marines who've come back from deployment to iraq and afghanistan...it's like they got it in their head that they're indestructable and then they die on a sportbike once they get back home....and the numbers are that more marines die on sportbikes than the death toll of the iraq/afghan wars put together...and we find it extremely sad and we're trying to do something about it."

turns out that recently (after gleening the stats) that he and the MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) are trying to formulate an awareness class just to remind war seasoned vets of their own mortality when it comes to gett'in crazy with a sportbike...which begs me to think...."adrenaline"...it's not just a drug...it's a disease...one that's taking out many of my fellow young pup marines...so?..sorry for the long windedness but i wanted to kick myself for not getting this guys name and number so i too could help get the word out...but i guess i'm trying to do my best right now to get the word out...(matter fact?..i feel a "new thread" copy&paste com'in on)...as the numbers shocked and amazed me...but not really...as all us current and former marines know...we are adrenaline junkies..and is why it is all that much more important that we strive to keep our addiction in check..so that we may live on and survive ourselves despite our "selves".

With much love & L8R, Bill. :cool:
 
Guys come back from deployment with a lot of cash and want to reward themselves with a toy they have always wanted (heck, I bought myself 2 bikes last year)

I know Marines have to request "permission" to buy/ride a bike. BRC/ERC has been a requirement to get a base decal. Sadly, death from bike accidents has been a trend for a few years now. Anything and everything to help reverse this trend is a good thing.
 
From memory the Marines are required to take MSF or similar course. Been a couple of threads in '09 on this issue.
 
I'm in the Navy and we are required to complete the MSF BRC. Every 3 years after that you have to take the advanced rider course. Last summer they started a new Sportbike rider course that we have to take as well.
The Sportbike course is okay. It covers cornering techniques and body position. The only problem is its taught in a parking lot and we never went over 30 mph. Number one comment on the feedback sheet was trackdays.
 
Last year I called a bunch of dealerships when shopping for my new Busa and in New York they said they couldn't sell Hayabusas to Military.
 
This type of stuff has been going on for quite a few years. Here is the latest about focus groups.

U.S. Department of Defense Engages Motorcycle Safety Foundation to Conduct Focus Groups

Key objective is to identify ways of reducing two-wheel
"Private Motor Vehicle" mishaps among military motorcyclists
IRVINE, Calif., Jan. 14, 2010 - As the popularity of motorcycling and motorcycle registrations continues to rise among military service personnel, so does the number of fatal motorcycle crashes. That is why the Department of Defense (DoD) continues to seek out aggressive countermeasures in the campaign against two-wheel Private Motor Vehicle (PMV) mishaps among military personnel, and military sport bike riders in particular.

To that end, the DoD has engaged the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) to conduct four focus groups for the Defense Safety Oversight Council (DSOC) PMV Task Force. The focus groups will take place at different locations across the United States in close proximity to military installations. The participants will represent the dominant motorcycling culture in the military that is statistically at highest risk, primarily sport bike riders. Officers and commissioned personnel will be sampled separately to ensure that command structure perspectives are also considered. The initiative is being implemented through the National Defense Center for Energy and Environment (NDCEE), operated by Concurrent Technologies Corporation (CTC).

"This initiative falls in line with the PMV Task Force's strategic plan for the overall reduction of PMV mishaps across the Department of Defense," said Major General Fred Roggero, DSOC PMV Task Force Chair. "These focus groups have the potential to identify core issues, target initiatives and ultimately save lives."

In 2008, a small focus group was conducted by Al Hydeman, MSF's director, research, design and development, with service members who were sport bike riders.

"That focus group was successful in identifying the habits, behaviors and attitudes inherent to this population," said MG Roggero.

The projected team for the new series of focus groups will be led by Hydeman, and will include MSF's Director, Quality Assurance and Research, Dr. Sherry Williams and Quality Assurance Specialist, David Crouch. Building on the results from the 2008 effort, the MSF team will plan, coordinate and conduct the four focus groups in order to identify attitudes toward motorcycling and motorcycling peers, effectiveness of current countermeasures, barriers to change, and other relevant feedback.

"We're honored to be part of the Department of Defense's ongoing efforts to make motorcycle riding safer for military service personnel" said Hydeman. "Conducting focus groups is an effective way to get past the stereotypes and focus on core issues and solutions."

The project's expected outcome is to provide guidance to the DoD in identifying the most effective means of reducing military motorcyclist fatalities and mishaps for all branches of the service - through technology, education, enforcement, and other areas as illuminated by focus group participants.
 
There was sa segment on "Superbikes" about this last year. Very sad thing, men and women make it through war, of all things, only to come home and be injured or killed on a bike.
 
trojan2k said:
I'm in the Navy and we are required to complete the MSF BRC. Every 3 years after that you have to take the advanced rider course. Last summer they started a new Sportbike rider course that we have to take as well.
The Sportbike course is okay. It covers cornering techniques and body position. The only problem is its taught in a parking lot and we never went over 30 mph. Number one comment on the feedback sheet was trackdays.
Click to expand...

Yeah trackdays, I get that a lot. But like I tell my students, if you can't handle your bike at 20 mph I don't want to see you try and negotiate turns at speed(much less faster). So many people think that the MSF courses are going to teach experience. Well that just can't happen. The courses give you basic skills that are needed in everyday riding. It is up to the rider to then fine tune those skills. I was told by a guy here on base just a couple weeks ago that the class didn't help him at all. It really should have been longer. I asked him,"well how many times have you gone and practiced at the range on a Saturday or even one day after work?" He said he never did. Well there you go, one day personal responsibility will be at the forefront.
 
It's not just the Marines that are dying on two wheels. We can look forward to an average of around 15 bikers dying on two wheels each and every day of 2010.

Alarming to say the least. It seems most riders are far more interested in spending their cash on bling rather than instruction to improve their skills. Riders seem to think tweaking a few nobs, new pipes and better tires will somehow magically make them ride better and faster. It never does of course. In reality, the bike is the very least of the go fast equasion!

Almost all corner crashes, upon examination, are intirely avoidable! They don't occur because the rider over rode the corner, they happen because the rider over rode himself.

I think more lives would be spared if we could somehow convince riders to invest in themselves rather than shinny parts for their ride?
 
+1000 Tufbusa!

A couple of track days changed the way I think and ride all the time. I plan on doing more track days this year when riding season is in full swing again.
 
yeah..i know i might not be breaking new ground with the stats and info but it was shocking news to me so...any friendly reminders i can put out there is probably a good thing.

or?...just me trying to do a good thing.

L8R, Bill. :cool:
 
si-lo said:
Yeah trackdays, I get that a lot. But like I tell my students, if you can't handle your bike at 20 mph I don't want to see you try and negotiate turns at speed(much less faster). So many people think that the MSF courses are going to teach experience. Well that just can't happen. The courses give you basic skills that are needed in everyday riding. It is up to the rider to then fine tune those skills. I was told by a guy here on base just a couple weeks ago that the class didn't help him at all. It really should have been longer. I asked him,"well how many times have you gone and practiced at the range on a Saturday or even one day after work?" He said he never did. Well there you go, one day personal responsibility will be at the forefront.
Click to expand...

The Military Sportbike Ridercourse is good. I enjoyed my day and learned a few things. If somebody said they didn't learn anything they weren't paying attention or went into the class with the wrong attitude.
My feedback on how to make it better was to add track days. I know there are some guys that can't handle their bikes well enough yet. Like the other guy in my class who bought his Busa because it was a Busa. He wasn't a very good rider. What I meant by trackdays was to have an option to go. Not a mandatory trip. Maybe get some of it paid for by MWR to make it affordable for everybody. Like when they sponsor snowboard trips or something like that.
 
si-lo said:
Yeah trackdays, I get that a lot. But like I tell my students, if you can't handle your bike at 20 mph I don't want to see you try and negotiate turns at speed(much less faster).
Click to expand...

We get people who are fresh out of the MSF with a brand new license. Some of them with far less than adequate skills to be on the streets. That's why we have novice class. I've actually seen people who would not exceed 30 mph anywhere on the track. At Times we have put four instructors with these folks in order to block other rides and protect them. However, every rider that attends, leaves with improved skills.

It may be in the best interest of all your MSF students to mention taking a track school in order to improve their skills once they pass the MSF? :beerchug:
 
Can you blame folks who just made it safely out of a warzone for thinking they cant die on a bike ?
Do a tour in Iraq, get shot at, have bombs thrown at you and make it home.
Then you hop on your ordinary motorcyle and go for a ride.
Their sense of reality is seriously diminished when they exp a theater of war.
It dulls your senses as well as common sense and these are things we need to work on.
Heck at 25yrs old not having served I was Superman, I can only imagine how invincible you would feel after a tour in Iraq or Afg. ?
 
Rickey Gadson has been asked to work with the military on this issue as it has become quite serious. At the last AMA Dragbike race in Valdosta Rickey spoke about his discussions with the military over the PA in between rounds. He said it was very disturbing to see the images of our young men who had fought so valiantly and survived in Iraq and Afghanistan, only to perish on sportbikes back here in the US.

I also had the opportunity to speak with one of the instructors in the staging lanes who taught these riders classes on base. He was very excited to actually race and go some rounds. He felt it would be a great opportunity to have some of these servicemen come race to possibly get some of that "need for speed" out of their system.
 
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Tufbusa said:
We get people who are fresh out of the MSF with a brand new license. Some of them with far less than adequate skills to be on the streets. That's why we have novice class. I've actually seen people who would not exceed 30 mph anywhere on the track. At Times we have put four instructors with these folks in order to block other rides and protect them. However, every rider that attends, leaves with improved skills.

It may be in the best interest of all your MSF students to mention taking a track school in order to improve their skills once they pass the MSF? :beerchug:
Click to expand...

I should've been more clear,I don't think trackdays should be an alternative to MSF. I do encourage track days. We have the best facility in North America if not the world in our back yard. And out of the close to 1000 students I have had here at this base, I know of 2 that have taken them. As I said MSF is basic introductory skills. It is up to the individual to get better at them. Whether that be through practice or seeking out continued training with track days. I'm not sure what is meant by adequate for the streets, but I'm pretty sure that is an exaggeration to make your point. But all in all you cannot compare MSF to track days, they are two different things.
 
Well, one small part that would help is for us veteran riders (not military but motorcycle vets) would invest some time discussing technique and skill with newer riders. I can think of 3 different riders that were "just back" from deployment that I've ridden with in the past 3 years. I also remember just wanting to get back on my bike and ride after everybody stopped for lunch.....what a missed opportunity! We could have talked about so many things (safety, skill, techniques, etc.) but it was just cheeseburger, coke then ride.
This strand has tremendous value. Doyle
 
very difficult, changing attitudes of the under 30 crowd.
It is a very bad formula. When we offer free safety classes to the public, it is the over 30 crowd that attends.
 
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