Anybody remember anything about Windows NT?


skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
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#1
Yep, I've got an NT 4.0 machine still running - Don't laught it's part of a $100K+ German made automated saw with Seimens control system. Which means I don't DARE mess it up...

I had a bunch of event errors that I've cleared up (after a LOT of research)(old mouse driver/PC anyware not used anymore), but I need to get it to show up on my network (workgroup). The DHCP server is assigning it an address, and I can see it, but can't log onto it. I've already had to hack the passwords because nobody had kept them (the defaults from the manufacturer don't work), but I think it's got to do with setting up the network protocols.

Help?
 

omslaw

Michelle owns my Busa
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#3
Not quite sure I follow... Are you able to login to it now (after hacking the password?).
 
#4
Sorry man thats just not enough to go on. NT shouldn't be that hard to trouble shoot. Remove your network card drivers and shut of the machine. Remove your network card and start the machine. Turn off the machine and reinstall the net card. Reinstall the newest driver. Restart. Do not do this if you cant find the correct driver for the net card before you start.
 

Amode

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#6
I have still have one sys nt 2000 but not on network. google nt and search for techs in your area. they are still out here.
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
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#8
Not quite sure I follow... Are you able to login to it now (after hacking the password?).
It's got a custom boot/load sequence built into it by the Manufacturer; It doesn't ask for a user ID/PASS when it loads.

Sorry man thats just not enough to go on. NT shouldn't be that hard to trouble shoot. Remove your network card drivers and shut of the machine. Remove your network card and start the machine. Turn off the machine and reinstall the net card. Reinstall the newest driver. Restart. Do not do this if you cant find the correct driver for the net card before you start.
Oh, heck no. This thing is waaay too old to take that chance (or have a driver). I have no idea where the original discs are for this thing.

Just got back into town. There are a couple of things we can try. Ping me on it tomorrow when you can.
You betcha; can you Facetime?

Is it running service pack 6?
I think it's SP5 I'd have to go look again.

Here's the deal: The machine sees all our other workgroup machines; and can even open the shared drive I have on the system without issue. I can see it in the Network Neighborhood without issue from my machine, but when I try to login it rejects loginID password, even blanks. When I hacked it (Windows NT Password Repair Tool - Since I only had floppy access) I removed all user passwords. I've got several things to look at:

1. Do I have to go in and create a shared folder for it to open? Newer versions of windows had the shared folder to open into, but I don't know about NT, so I may be that I need to go see if there ARE any shares...

2. I am still getting some kind of "Master Browser" warning in the Event log. I've researched this a little, and I understand that to be a random assignment of which machine on the network was first started that picks up Master Browser duties (I don't know if I can assign that to a specific machine or not - but I'd like to).

3. Right now it's on DHCP; I'm going to give it a fixed address in my non-dhcp range and see if that helps.

Right now the machine is working pretty good, except for the minor errors showing up in the event log, and that I can't open it (I need to share the users documents folder so I can load cut files into it).

Also, the mfgs tech is now using NetViewer to remote to it. I want to try and install TeamViewer to do same.

Below are pics...that little box in the bottom right (inside door) is the NT box...

Thanks!

IMG_1730.jpg


IMG_1731.jpg
 

Twobrothersbusa

Team Gixxer Racing; IDMBT #1
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#9
That Siemens controller is your biggest problem...but I'm a bit biased. Actually, that looks like a TI505 controller that was bought by Siemens and branded. The control software running on the HMI for machine control is that APT?

Throw a ControlLogix PAC at it and your NT box will bet better just being around the new controller.
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
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#10
That Siemens controller is your biggest problem...but I'm a bit biased. Actually, that looks like a TI505 controller that was bought by Siemens and branded. The control software running on the HMI for machine control is that APT?

Throw a ControlLogix PAC at it and your NT box will bet better just being around the new controller.
All I see is "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH".......
 

Professor

Hayabusa Immortal
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#12
The administrative share should be enabled by default and it does not look like they worried about security.

Try \\ip\c$ from a remote computer and see if it responds either by letting you in or to give you a login dialog. ie: \\10.10.23.223\c$

I seem to remember having to upgrade a few of ours to SP6(actually 6a) to allow then to communicate with 2000 or 2003 server. It has been too long.

I still have 1 NT 4 instrument on gas chromatograph and headspace sampler.
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
Donating Member
#13
The administrative share should be enabled by default and it does not look like they worried about security.

Try \\ip\c$ from a remote computer and see if it responds either by letting you in or to give you a login dialog. ie: \\10.10.23.223\c$

I seem to remember having to upgrade a few of ours to SP6(actually 6a) to allow then to communicate with 2000 or 2003 server. It has been too long.

I still have 1 NT 4 instrument on gas chromatograph and headspace sampler.
I get the login screen, but can't get past it with either user or administrator password (which, right now should be blank). I'm going have to go back in there with that password hack and see if I did it correctly.
 

Professor

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#14
It's got a custom boot/load sequence built into it by the Manufacturer; It doesn't ask for a user ID/PASS when it loads.
It is possible the only change they made to the allow it to log in is by making changes to the registry.
Look at HKLM\Microsoft\WindowsNT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon See id AutoAdminLogon in enabled with a "1" value. Most of the time I have seen it enabled with the administrator account and a blank password in equipment.
 

Professor

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#15
I get the login screen, but can't get past it with either user or administrator password (which, right now should be blank). I'm going have to go back in there with that password hack and see if I did it correctly.
Instead of hacking it, just add a new account. Then add that account to the local admin group.
 
#16
Just a thought (I can't really remember either), but NT sharing may not support blank passwords. Try putting a known password on the machine and trying again.

--Sky
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
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#17
It is possible the only change they made to the allow it to log in is by making changes to the registry.
Look at HKLM\Microsoft\WindowsNT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon See id AutoAdminLogon in enabled with a "1" value. Most of the time I have seen it enabled with the administrator account and a blank password in equipment.
Yes it's enabled with a 1 value

Instead of hacking it, just add a new account. Then add that account to the local admin group.
Tried this. Still cannot connect. However, the machine DOES see out and connects to my other workgroup devices (including my shared drive) so I CAN PULL files from the shared storage drive; just can't remote or PUSH to the NT Machine. I need to quit while I'm ahead and not mess with it any more not telling how easily I could mess something up and REALLY be in a jam. Just need to clean up the event log and see if I've got anything else remaining.
 

skydivr

Jumps from perfectly good Airplanes
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#18
Oh well. Event log clean. If I could just get handy-dandy Teamviewer to work I'd be 100% satisfied.
 

Professor

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#19
There is some limitations to NTs authentication. You might look up NTLM(2) .

I'll see if I can find some notes. There were some security issues so I'm sure some of the hashes are now disabled by default.
 

Professor

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#20
It looks like the changes to NTLM (adding v2) were made with SP4.
Look here:
How to enable NTLM 2 authentication

Note For Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 the registry key is LMCompatibilityLevel, and for Windows 95 and Windows 98-based computers, the registery key is LMCompatibility.

For reference, the full range of values for the LMCompatibilityLevel value that are supported by Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000 include:
• Level 0 - Send LM and NTLM response; never use NTLM 2 session security. Clients use LM and NTLM authentication, and never use NTLM 2 session security; domain controllers accept LM, NTLM, and NTLM 2 authentication.
• Level 1 - Use NTLM 2 session security if negotiated. Clients use LM and NTLM authentication, and use NTLM 2 session security if the server supports it; domain controllers accept LM, NTLM, and NTLM 2 authentication.
• Level 2 - Send NTLM response only. Clients use only NTLM authentication, and use NTLM 2 session security if the server supports it; domain controllers accept LM, NTLM, and NTLM 2 authentication.
• Level 3 - Send NTLM 2 response only. Clients use NTLM 2 authentication, and use NTLM 2 session security if the server supports it; domain controllers accept LM, NTLM, and NTLM 2 authentication.
• Level 4 - Domain controllers refuse LM responses. Clients use NTLM authentication, and use NTLM 2 session security if the server supports it; domain controllers refuse LM authentication (that is, they accept NTLM and NTLM 2).
• Level 5 - Domain controllers refuse LM and NTLM responses (accept only NTLM 2). Clients use NTLM 2 authentication, use NTLM 2 session security if the server supports it; domain controllers refuse NTLM and LM authentication (they accept only NTLM 2).


More on the way Win 7 handles it Introducing the Restriction of NTLM Authentication

Registry keys on 7.
Can not connect from Win7 to a shared resource

I think they are trying to communicate with two different version of NVLM
 

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