After ECU flash...Power comander or Bazzaz? DYNO's in Jacksonville ?

Jose J Ortega

Registered
Well Guys, Sending this weekend my ECU to be flash by Frank at POWERHOUSE. Planning to buy a PC or a Bazzaz. Any pro and cons from each other? Also I am trying to find a Dyno in Jacksonville Florida to set up my bike. Thanks in advance.
 
Are you keeping that exhaust?

Buy a Brocks AlienHead and Power Commader from Brocks.
Then get it dyno'd
It'll have a much better loud sound than what you have, and make a big difference in acceleration and throttle response.
From that point, you're bike won't get any better without going into the engine, and spending alot more.
It'll run night and day better.
 
If you haven't already, I would invest in a set of ceramic embedded front brake pads.
The bike Will stop shorter with them. Even stopping a foot or less than before can literally save your life.
Little things, worth doing.
You have obviously spent alot of time bringing back an old and used bike, into something redone, clean, reliable and useable. That's always a great feeling.
Brakes are expensive(master cylinders and calipers), pads are cheap, and the right ones make all the difference.
 
If you haven't already, I would invest in a set of ceramic embedded front brake pads.
The bike Will stop shorter with them. Even stopping a foot or less than before can literally save your life.
Little things, worth doing.
You have obviously spent alot of time bringing back an old and used bike, into something redone, clean, reliable and useable. That's always a great feeling.
Brakes are expensive(master cylinders and calipers), pads are cheap, and the right ones make all the difference.

Very True Sixpac577. I will check the front breaks if they are ceramic, if not I will order a ceramic embedded pads. I will check the Brocks exhaust and the Power commander from him.
 
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busa at night.jpg
 
No... I will change the exhaust. I still debating which one I will get. hopefully when I order the PC or the Bazzaz I will decide lol.

Brocks is highest hp, loudest(baffles available) and hottest.
Ti-Force is out of business
I think you can still get an HMF Big Bird
Akropovic(quiet with baffles in)will be highest quiet hp
These are all some of the best options
Most anything else is good as well, maybe a little less hp/torque, not the same power curve.
Most important thing is that you like the looks and sound, don't get hung up on numbers, and you're gonna get a great responding bike with any full exhaust and a good dyno tune.
Also, nothing but great things to say about Brocks, but most of them will melt your shoe, and your foot.
But, you can grab a carbon fiber muffler bare handed on a running bike.
That is game changer pumping gas in shorts(yep, I ride in full leathers...or a t-shirt and shorts, always a helmet)
After a couple bikes with aluminum and ss mufflers, and burning my leg several times bumping into them...I've put cf mufflers on the last couple bikes I've had, lol.
 
Very True Sixpac577. I will check the front breaks if they are ceramic, if not I will order a ceramic embedded pads. I will check the Brocks exhaust and the Power commander from him.

They probably are not.
Look for EBC HH "Extreme Pro", they are not the same as standard HH, as those don't have ceramic.
I have not used Veshra, but I know they make a high quality synthetic as good as the Extreme Pro's, only a different material.
Do not buy Race Specific pads, even from top name companies. As they are no good on the street.
Their compound is designed to work best when hot, as they are used constantly in a road race. When on the street, and not always using brakes often, they cool quickly, and work like wood blocks, much worse than stock.
I can't tell in the pics, but if you don't yet have stainless steel front brake lines, they make a big difference in lever feel.
If your grips and levers are comfortable to you, perfect. If not, try different kinds until you find what fits your hands the best. Move your levers up/down/left/right, until their position is perfect.
These little changes make a huge difference in control.
Everyone has their own riding style, but I always have 1 or 2 fingers on the brake and clutch levers, always in a good spot to control and change grip immediately.
As for suspension sag, you'll never get it great on a stretch and lowered, but, you can make a dramatic improvement in how the bike rides, stops, and handles. Nose dive under braking can really affect the handling, good or bad. And how rough or sloppy it is over bumps.
Bike suspensions are set to nothing from the factory, and are set by rider weight.
99.9% chance you can turn a few screws front and back, compression and rebound, and move the lock rings on the rear shock, and make a noticeable improvement. Nothing to it.
Basically, with your stretch and lower, you want to stand next to the bike, upright, hold front brake, and push the front down as hard and fast as you can. You want the forks to return to their normal position, as quickly and smoothly as possible. You don't want a double bounce as the forks return to the top and settle, or slow, or stiff, or sloppy. You'll know it when you find it, as you can imagine a sloppy suspension pogo sticking or sliming down the road. As opposed to you and the bike staying parralell to the road, with the suspension working between you, without disturbing the bike.
The fork should be "sagged" roughly 1/3.
Broken into 3, the first third is the "laden" sag, where it rests under it's own weight and the rider's weight, the middle third is where you want the forks to work, and the last third of travel before the forks bottom out, should be basically you're over rev. The middle for the ride, the bottom third for the pothole and speed bumps. If that makes sense.
Turn the compression and rebound screws on both forks fully clockwise.
Then count your turns, half turns counter clockwise. equally per side.
Play with it. Start with a ballpark, 3 turns compression, 4 turns rebound. Is it good? I'll bet noticeably different, but in need of improvement. Pick compression or rebound, and go 2 full turns back.
Now bounce it again. You'll feel the difference, and you'll get the idea of what you're trying to accomplish.
Keep playing with it, as long as you don't force a screw, you can't mess it up. You just go back to full clockwise, and you can find some baseline settings to get you close.
A wrench to turn the nut on the top of the forks. Make sure the number of visible rings is the same on both. This is spring preload. You will feel it in the bounce. 2 lines feels right? 4? Start all the way in or out.
On the rear, much the same.
Have someone around your weight sit on it. You hold the rear seat and push down fast.
You could likely benefit from backing the lock rings off to just a couple visible threads above them when they're tight(you can buy the right size spanner wrench, better yet, an adjustable spanner wrench, or a big flat blade screwdriver and hammer, just be careful not to damage the rings with that). That'll really smooth it out for you, make it not too harsh over bumps. Do the compression and rebound the same. The rear shock will likely turn out to 16-18 turns, as opposed to 4-6 on the front, just an average. Try 10-12 turns, bounce, and go up or down as needed.
After being happy with the settings, go for a ride, on the typical road conditions you normally do.
See how it feels, nope, still not right, pull over, get out your flat blade screw driver and wrench, adjust it, ride, repeat.
If you get frustrated, no biggie, you are learning to do what every sportbike/dirtbike rider should know how to do, do first on any bike they get, but yet such a small percentage actually know how or do.
Correct suspension sag for the riders weight makes the bike ride, stop, and handle at it's fullest potential.
It's done correctly by supporting the bike on stands and measuring. If the front is right and the rear is wrong, or vice versa, the whole ride suffers.
As said earlier, a stretch and lower is a different thing. The by hand and eye I described works well, and once you get the hang of it, you can set suspension on the roadside, and for anyone. It'll get you in the ballpark for when you measure. Which is still back to roadside to dial in.
Sorry, I didn't mean to write a book.
You've done so much to bike, don't stop where most guys do.
Suspension isn't magic, or difficult, but makes a Huge difference overall, and once you figure it out, you'll be able to look at tire wear, and learn to turn a screw a half turn or 2 and change it.
Give it a shot. If no one you ride with knows how, become the guy in your group that does.
Maybe there's an org member within riding distance of you that could give you a hand.
Enough of my rambling......
 
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They probably are not.
Look for EBC HH "Extreme Pro", they are not the same as standard HH, as those don't have ceramic.
I have not used Veshra, but I know they make a high quality synthetic as good as the Extreme Pro's, only a different material.
Do not buy Race Specific pads, even from top name companies. As they are no good on the street.
Their compound is designed to work best when hot, as they are used constantly in a road race. When on the street, and not always using brakes often, they cool quickly, and work like wood blocks, much worse than stock.
I can't tell in the pics, but if you don't yet have stainless steel front brake lines, they make a big difference in lever feel.
If your grips and levers are comfortable to you, perfect. If not, try different kinds until you find what fits your hands the best. Move your levers up/down/left/right, until their position is perfect.
These little changes make a huge difference in control.
Everyone has their own riding style, but I always have 1 or 2 fingers on the brake and clutch levers, always in a good spot to control and change grip immediately.
As for suspension sag, you'll never get it great on a stretch and lowered, but, you can make a dramatic improvement in how the bike rides, stops, and handles. Nose dive under braking can really affect the handling, good or bad. And how rough or sloppy it is over bumps.
Bike suspensions are set to nothing from the factory, and are set by rider weight.
99.9% chance you can turn a few screws front and back, compression and rebound, and move the lock rings on the rear shock, and make a noticeable improvement. Nothing to it.
Basically, with your stretch and lower, you want to stand next to the bike, upright, hold front brake, and push the front down as hard and fast as you can. You want the forks to return to their normal position, as quickly and smoothly as possible. Turn the compression and rebound screws on both forks fully clockwise.
Then count your turns, half turns counter clockwise. equally per side.
Play with it. Start with a ballpark, 3 turns compression, 4 turns rebound. Is it good? I'll bet noticeably different, but in need of improvement. Pick compression or rebound, and go 2 full turns back.
Now bounce it again. You'll feel the difference, and you'll get the idea of what you're trying to accomplish.
Keep playing with it, as long as you don't force a screw, you can't mess it up. You just go back to full clockwise, and you can find some baseline settings to get you close.
A wrench to turn the nut on the top of the forks. Make sure the number of visible rings is the same on both. This is spring preload. You will feel it in the bounce. 2 lines feels right? 4? Start all the way in or out.
On the rear, much the same.
Have someone around your weight sit on it. You hold the rear seat and push down fast.
You could likely benefit from backing the lock rings off to just a couple visible threads above them when they're tight(you can buy the right size spanner wrench, better yet, an adjustable spanner wrench, or a big flat blade screwdriver and hammer, just be careful not to damage the rings with that). That'll really smooth it out for you, make it not too harsh over bumps. Do the compression and rebound the same. The rear shock will likely turn out to 16-18 turns, as opposed to 4-6 on the front, just an average. Try 10-12 turns, bounce, and go up or down as needed.
After being happy with the settings, go for a ride, on the typical road conditions you normally do.
See how it feels, nope, still not right, pull over, get out your flat blade screw driver and wrench, adjust it, ride, repeat.
If you get frustrated, no biggie, you are learning to do what every sportbike/dirtbike rider should know how to do, do first on any bike they get, but yet such a small percentage actually know how or do.
Correct suspension sag for the riders weight makes the bike ride, stop, and handle at it's fullest potential.
It's done correctly by supporting the bike on stands and measuring. If the front is right and the rear is wrong, or vice versa, the whole ride suffers.
As said earlier, a stretch and lower is a different thing. The by hand and eye I described works well, and once you get the hang of it, you can set suspension on the roadside, and for anyone. It'll get you in the ballpark for when you measure. Which is still back to roadside to dial in.
Sorry, I didn't mean to write a book.
You've done so much to bike, don't stop where most guys do.
Suspension isn't magic, or difficult, but makes a Huge difference overall, and once you figure it out, you'll be able to look at tire wear, and learn to turn a screw a half turn or 2 and change it.
Give it a shot. If no one you ride with knows how, become the guy in your group that does.
Maybe there's an org member within riding distance of you that could give you a hand.
Enough of my rambling......

Great info SIXPACK577!!. I don't mind al the info... I really do appreciate all your great help. I do love to Do stuff myself , I love challenge and see what I have accomplish. Best feeling in the world:D
 
Great info SIXPACK577!!. I don't mind al the info... I really do appreciate all your great help. I do love to Do stuff myself , I love challenge and see what I have accomplish. Best feeling in the world:D

Excellent!
Don't get me wrong, I'm no suspension guru, but knowing the basics and being able to set sag is so important and dramatic.
From what you've already learned an done, it's no biggie.
Learning suspension will catapult your riding to another level, as you'll learn and know how to make a bike handle.
You will float over bumps with control, and without the bumps bouncing you around.
Therefore the tire stays in better contact with the road, you have better control at the bars and over the brakes, and your're not getting thrown over the bars when you brake.
Granted, you'll always feel some bumps, and nothing is perfect, but you'll find out.
Take an awesome machine like the Toad's. Trick suspension, brakes, the works.
Go turn the suspension settings he has a few clicks here and there, and his perfect ride just became pretty useless, and the control and handling can be reduced to nothing(I reckon he can fix it).
Put a decent rider on it with no suspension knowledge, and they'll think it's over rated junk.
Dial it back in, incredible.
Why so many riders get limited so quickly. Usually just from riding faster than their ability, but if their bike was set right to start with, they would have sooo much more control.
Yeah, it's that much of a difference.
Search "Jinkster attacks suspension"
It's a great thread on setting sag on a gen1 Busa.
As said, I wouldn't worry so much about stands and measuring a stretched and lowered bike, you can do alot by feel and eye. And given the handling limits of a stretch and lower, it's good enough.
But the pics and instructions on the right way, should put it all together for you.
Sag is basically set the same on any adjustable fork or shock, just the compression, rebound, and preload locations or adjustments may vary a little. As well as the technology of the parts. But, the idea is the same.
 
I have a Bazzaz on my busa and it works as good as the PC5 on my 14 as far as I can tell. Never tried a PC5 on my busa for direct compare but since the Bazzaz runs good, I don't see the need to. The beef was that Bazzaz has fewer columns in its fuel table but I can't tell. PC5s automatically make averages between cells (i.e. average the adjustment for 20% TP and 30% TP when you are anywhere from 21% ~29% TP) and Bazzaz must do that as well.

Both do a good job of adjusting fuel.

You will probably also want AutoTune and on that, I think DJ is better. It samples 10x/second where Bazzaz samples 3x/second. Also, DJ AutoTune corrects while cruising effectively (it is too slow to correct for racing or sport riding) but I do not believe Bazzaz corrects in closed loop at all. You need to accept the trims to make use of Bazzaz Z-AFM. Well, the closed loop adjustments are of limited use but I think the sample rate will be a little more significant. You will be able to tune each TP in three or four runs and with the Z-AFM, you will probably need to do 5-7 runs to get the same result. Obviously I have not used my Z-AFM yet but I'm going on what I learned while doing my homework on fuel management systems and then road tuning with DJ's AutoTune. SO there, DJ is the way to go and that's enough reason to stick with DJ. If you want to self tune AFR, don't get AutoTune, get the Wideband 2. It is $60 more but has a few nice advanced features including the ability to provide a user defined channel for datalogging and some other things. More wires to hook up but if you ever need the capabilities, they are there.

If you run boost, you may have need to tune the secondary injectors as well as the primaries and in the past, Bazzaz was the only way to do that unless you used two PC5s because one PC5 was only good for 4 injectors. NOw they have the secondary module and from what I understand, it handles all 8 injectors that most modern sportbikes are equipped with. So toss up there between Bazzaz and DJ.

The thing that really is sucky about Bazzaz is that they do not make an ignition module. You are forced to work with some other brand of ignition controller which works fine but wouldn't it be nice to have all tuning devices in the same network and working with the same software?? Bazazz looses for ignition control. I'm sure your flash will address timing but again, if you run boost, you will want to adjust that from what is optimum for stock and make sure your tuner can tell you exactly what he did to the timing so you know what you are doing with your adjustments. The PC5+Ignition is now available so you can get all the capabilities of an Ignition Module and a PC5 in one---at least that's what the ad claims.


Go with DJ. I really think Bazzaz is a great company and I got excellent tech support but IMHO they have been slipping behind DJ for the last 8 or 9 years. I do not believe they are developing their product to stay competitive. Then again, I have not looked at what they might have done in 5 years either. But I think I would have heard if anything new was happening with Bazzaz.
 
...and to top it all off, DJ has the POD 300 and Bazzaz has nothing of that sort just like they lack an ignition module. Sure you will road tune with a laptop on the fuel tank but a POD 300 or LCD-200 is a nice part to have on the bike to monitor your tune. You don't want that laptop on the fuel tank all the time but the POD-300 does not have full capabilities of DJ's Control Center software. It can do many basic things Control Center does though so a POD-300 is a convenient compromise after you finish your tuning.

DJ wins again.
 
POWERHOUSE has been a Brock's dealer for many years, along with all the other pipes you can get. We carry the Extreme HH pads in stock for both Gens at all times. I have always considered autotune to be junk, I don't care who makes it. Stick with a good tune like you will get from Walter, don't mess it up with add ons.
 
POWERHOUSE has been a Brock's dealer for many years, along with all the other pipes you can get. We carry the Extreme HH pads in stock for both Gens at all times. I have always considered autotune to be junk, I don't care who makes it. Stick with a good tune like you will get from Walter, don't mess it up with add ons.

Absolutely! It's either the location of the O2 bung or the fact that the charging system (especially on the Suzuki's) vary so much that the WBO2 doesn't heat correctly, but autotunes do not work. They sometimes get close, but more often than not you get a crap tune.
 
POWERHOUSE has been a Brock's dealer for many years, along with all the other pipes you can get. We carry the Extreme HH pads in stock for both Gens at all times. I have always considered autotune to be junk, I don't care who makes it. Stick with a good tune like you will get from Walter, don't mess it up with add ons.

I agree with Frank there's nothing compared to a Dynotune. Thank you all for you inputs
 
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