2003 Hayabusa Spark Problem

homernukem

Registered
I bought this bike a while ago and have only test drove it.
It has a very hard time starting. The only way to start it is with a battery charger hooked up and crank it for an obnoxious amount of time while giving it throttle. (Side note, it won't even try to start with the power commander unhooked).
Once it starts it runs fine.
It has a new battery, new iridium plugs, and I cleaned out the fuel pump, fuel lines, and injectors.
With a plug out I can watch the spark and it sparks two or three times in a row then misses one or two times in a row. I don't get any FI codes.
I thought it may be the cam position sensor, the sensor ohms out at 1,173 ohms. The pin on the cam sticks out .3060 inches. I tried to pull on it with vise grips to get more of the pin to stick out but it wouldn't move.

Does anyone have an idea what may be the matter?
 

homernukem

Registered
No one seems to have any useful info for me, so I ordered a used but good cam position sensor on ebay.
Does anyone know about adjusting those cam pins?
 

EchoBase

Registered
homer
I don't know how you're question got missed.
I don't have an answer right now for your last question.
You have gone through a lot of troubleshooting so far.
I don't know why it will not start without the PC connected. Has the bike been modified?
 

homernukem

Registered
I don't know. I think it was raced (has full exhaust system, lighter rims, sponges in the fuel tank [i removed because it kept the fuel gauge from working], pair removed, k&n, etc). I don't know if anything has been done internally.
I'm not in a super hurry but I want to be able to use my bike as a daily driver, I want it to run right. I haven't wired it yet, but I have a wide band o2 that will help me tune it.
 

homernukem

Registered
Ok I checked some things and the TPS was off slightly, but didn't fix the spark problem.
Side note, it doesn't even spark without the power commander.
Also I got to thinking about it and unlike cars that use cam position for spark timing, there's no way this bike uses the cam position and has only one pickup per revulution.
So now I'm thinking crankshaft position sensor must be the culprit.
 

EchoBase

Registered
himernukem
I understand you thinking but don't buy anything to try and fix it until you have the problem pinpointed.
Do you have a PCV or a PCIII USB?
Does the PC have any add on modules?
I have had both the V and III on my 2006.
Neither, on their own, have any control over ingnition. They only adjust fuel, period.
Why the PC is effecting spark is where I think you should focus.
As far as the ckps, you could follow the steps in the factory service manual to test it. At least I think there is a way to test it.
Let me know if you need the fsm.
 

homernukem

Registered
The bike has a power commander 3 non usb, it has what appears to be an ancient computer mouse plug to hook it to a computer. I can't really say for certain that it is affecting spark since the spark is so random when it fires and when it doesn't. But it appears it doesn't spark at all when I unhook the plugs from the commander and hook the bikes factory plugs together.
I don't have a manual, but from what I've gathered the specs are supposed to be;
Cam sensor:
900-1,200 ohms and >.7 v
Crank sensor:
180-280 ohms and >3 v
I'll check crank sensor tomorrow.
 

FlyingSouth

Registered
How did you go with the Crank Sensor? Seems like a similar problem to what I may be experiencing. Made sure furl is good and getting spark and just adjusted the TPS to correct position but still no go.
 

homernukem

Registered
Sorry FlyingSouth. I haven't worked on my bike for ages. But...
Yesterday I checked it out and
Cam sensor: 1,180 ohms and .1 V
Crank sensor: 250 ohms and .7 V

Seems inconclusive to me. I'm tempted to replace my cam sensor with my original one, but my guess is both Volt numbers would be up slightly more if the bike were turning over faster, so I'm tempted not to be worried about the cam sensor output being low.
Side note the 3 three yellow wires that come off the stator were fried right at the connector. I replaced that connector and removed what looked like a professionally made TRE. No change in ability to start bike.
I've just ordered a new stator and pick up coil (crank sensor). I'll let you know what happens.
 

homernukem

Registered
Ok I just replaced my stator and crank sensor. Now
Crank sensor 342 ohms and 2.4V

Also the bike will start if I hook it up to a battery charger on 40 amps (so it turns over really fast) and I give it throttle. It doesn't idle, and I unhooked the power commander and sure enough, it wouldn't even try to start.

Side note something is unhooked here
photo_zpsj45h2i5d.jpg

That in the background is my coolant reservoir and stator cover.
Does anyone know what these 3 pin connectors go to?
 

homernukem

Registered
Oh and I forgot. When, and if the bike doesn't start while it's turning over the little display thingy will say CHECK. Does anyone know what that is?
I put my bike in the mode to check codes but it just says C00.
 

mabupa

Donating Member
Registered
Oh and I forgot. When, and if the bike doesn't start while it's turning over the little display thingy will say CHECK. Does anyone know what that is?
I put my bike in the mode to check codes but it just says C00.
My gen 2 says "check" if something is not in the right position for it to crank. Example: if my kickstand is down, it say "check" and it won't even try to crank. I find it odd that it says that, but still tries to start.
 

homernukem

Registered
Can anyone send post a wiring diagram? I know my wiring isn't the best (gsxr tail section, raced mods, etc.) I'll track down what all the unhooked wires were supposed to go to and bypass all the kill switches incase the CHEK message has to do with a kill switch intermittently causing me grief.
 

RansomT

Registered
Cam Sensor.

The cam sensor gives the ECU the signal so it can determine when to "spark" and not be 180 degrees off. A weak cam sensor will show as a hard to start bike and/or a false limiter.
 

homernukem

Registered
OK so even though the cam sensor didn't technically spec out. I seriously doubt it's the problem. I bought another used one off ebay (both so far said they came off running bikes) and the new one has
Newest Cam sensor: 1,118 ohms
Cam sensor I just took off bike: 1,133 ohms
I didn't measure voltage this time, because I'd have to take off air box etc to get at it good, but same story as the other two sensors. Bike doesn't start worth a dang. Technically it doesn't even start now, but I didn't sit there cranking it over for minutes at a time fiddiling with the throttle etc, or it may have.
Any other ideas?
 

David Offor

Registered
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image.jpeg image.jpeg Hi.
After reading you're thread, I'd look for fuel pump relay (inside fuse box, under plastic cover, left of dashboard).
Cam shaft sensor, works or doesn't, crankshaft sensors are (usually the same, works or doesn't).
I have a Haynes manual, so will attach photos, hope they help.
Can you check fuel pump pressure, I believe it should be 42psi.
What year is your bike? The really early ones had a ridiculous amount of problems, with the out of tank fuel pump, also busas are susceptible to rust build up in the tank.
Spark plugs are also temperamental on busas and I've been told from many people, that once they foul up, they need to be replaced.
Those two plugs are from the vacuum system (big one VCSV and flat one VC), not vital but best to get the sensors (if not still on the bracket on the bike) that they are connected too and reconnect back to factory set up (I found the diagram on the Internet, ignore the red crosses).
Hope this helps.

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homernukem

Registered
Thanks for all the info. Myne is 2003 with in tank fuel pump. I'll check the fuel pressure. Spark plugs are still new (haven't even driven 1 mile on them). I've heard that VCSV (vacuum control solenoid valve) doesn't do anything. Is that correct? And I'll find out what happened to my air pressure sensor and hook that up. I'll make sure my manifold air pressure sensor is hooked up. I'll make sure my vacuum hoses are routed right.
 
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