'Train almost went down today!

[Revlis]

One Caveat on my rear brake POV. I feel it holds true for sport bike especially, but not so much for Cruisers, and touring bikes when you have more weight on the rear. It is important that you use both on bikes that are more rear biased it really is usefull.

On the Sportbikes though, and your results may vary but if you use your brakes hard when out in the twisties it will rapidly become apparant that 100% of your braking force is coming from the front. Why? Because the rear is completely unloaded and may even have some daylight under it. Not so much on the Busa as on a CBR 600, or a ZX9R, but it is effectively useless under hard braking.

 

[BulletTrain]

and yet, I am jealous.  My bike has been put to bed for winter, and to be able to hit any kind of twisty, muddy or not would hold off my deprevation shakes for a while.

ps -- glad you made it ok!

Yeah, at this time of year any ride that you don't crash is good seat time I guess. Thanks.

 

[BulletTrain]

WOW!    

alot of good reading and alot of good advice from all.
thank you

i haven't read that keith code book but i will try my best to get it and read and comprehend it.

all the advice you folks give,  gas through a corner don't let off cause it will load the front, leave the rear brake alone it will lock up quick, etc., is great for a guy like me. ( a guy who always wants to learn how to ride better)

and i just wanted to say THANK YOU.
u'll probly save my monkey ass one day and i THANK YOU in advance.


GREATFULL READER
g_cal

g

g_cal,

Twist Of The Wrist by Keith Code has lots of good info in it but his writing style kinda sucks. It seems he feels the need to give a definition for every third word he writes. Lots of asterisks scattered throughout the text beside the words that he includes definitions for at the end of each section. That was very distracting for me. I still recommend it though because the info hidden amongst all the asterisks is very valuable.

 

[busagod]

Can't believe Erionblade didn't respond to this post. Being you were riding a “couchâ€￾ and all. Dude, glad you and the bike made it through without a scratch.

Hard to say, everything everyone is saying is true. Have seen many guys that say they were leaning and do the exact same thing. I believe it was initially all about the body position. The speed you carrier into the turn seemed reasonable, but the turn snuck-up on you and you were not prepared. I mean you were on top of the bike. That is where you panic dude, instead of leaning with the bike you made every effort to lean the bike but you failed to fall with the bike. This would have given you the feeling of max lean and the bike not turning. Letting off the gas and even braking with the front compounds the matter by loading the front end.

My advice, for what its worth:

Proper body position prior to the turn will help you gain the confidence to fall with the bike when it is time. Lift the ass, get it off the seat, that will weight the inside peg. I believe you that the bike was leaning, but you were still on top of the bike countering the bikes lean angle. If you don’t believe me, find yourself a passenger and tell them to lean against the turn while you try to lean and steer the bike around a curve. You'll will experience the same feeling you did that day.

Second, I suspect that your front forks may need to be adjusted stiffer. I weight 210 and could not get the stock forks even close to proper sag adjustment for my weight. Dude, if you’re going to play aggressively in the twisties proper adjustment of the bike suspension is a must.

Oh BTW, standing the bike up prior to existing the rode. Good Idea!

Last note: I prefer to adjust my rear brake so that it will not lock up EVER. I tend to drag the rear brake at times to scrub of a little speed entering a turn. I never depend on the rear brake for stopping power, so why have it adjusted so tight??? Having it adjusted this way allows me to reduce speed by a few mph without the fear of the brake locking. May not be in any book but it seems to work for me. If I need to slow even more I resort to trail braking.

Again Train, glad to see you are doing well.

 

[BulletTrain]

busagod,

I think you may be right about body position. I can't recall exactly what my body position was during the incident but I do recall that it wasn't relaxed and natural, as in a comfortable lean with the bike. I think you have indeed hit on another contributor to my off road antics. Thanks for the input!

You mention getting body position correct before the corners to avoid surprises. Sounds like good advice. As I mentioned in my original post here, I was just out for a liesurely ride that day and wasn't pushing it at all. Due to my easy pace I got a little lazy and glued my ass to the seat. I wasn't transfering side to side at all and most if not all my weight was on the seat instead of the pegs where it needed to be.

There are probably more riding rules that I broke in that corner. Hell, I may have broken all but one. That one being, "Keep the rubber side down and the shiny side up."

Again, thanks for the input, man. I totally missed the whole body position issue here. I think it definitely played a part though. Excellent catch, bro!

 

[BulletTrain]

Just for you, Mikey. Pics of the strips... First the front. You can see where they were previously scrubbed to... between 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch from the edge. They look like they were lightly scrubbed to about a 1/4 inch from the edge in the corner I almost dropped 'er in. I haven't leaned her that far anywhere else to scrub that far.



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[BulletTrain]

Here's the rear. I guess it was pretty much unloaded. It really didn't scrub in, so to speak, it just has these scuff marks all the way around.

Edit: On second look at the rear tire it does look like it might have got a light scrub all the way to the edge. These scuffs look like they might have come from angling off of and back onto the road on the steep drop off at the edge of the asphalt.



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[Guest]

Revlis...thank you, I appreciate the advice.  

I have really been working on correcting rather than eliminating my rear braking.  It's a hard habit to change because I was taught to use both simultaneously.  But I'm afraid it will get me in real trouble someday.  What I've been trying to do is condition myself to not move my foot to brake at any type of lean, just use the front.

 

[Guest]

The secret is to toe the rear not stomp. Its all about foot placement.
Just my personal view point.  

Again, another thanks from me  

This has always been my problem...I stomp!  bad habit...I'm working on just touching it lightly but only in a straight line.

 

[Mikey D]

Here's the rear. I guess it was pretty much unloaded. It really didn't scrub in, so to speak, it just has these scuff marks all the way around.

Edit: On second look at the rear tire it does look like it might have got a light scrub all the way to the edge. These scuffs look like they might have come from angling off of and back onto the road on the steep drop off at the edge of the asphalt.

Cool Bullet!

Looks like you've been riding pretty hard. Tire is a bit marbeled up to 3/4" from the edge. Good job!

One of my students rides with a kid on an R1. Brought it in to show me. Rear is a racing slick marbled (seriously tore up scuffed and melted!) right to the edge of the tire! I comented to him that he must ride pretty hard & well. He said, "Yeah, I don't ride a lot, but when I do I ride it hard!"

A week later I talked to the original kid (my student) and remarked on that tire. He said, Yeah, he got that tire off of another guy, it was a track bike and that was a practice tire. You should see it now Mr. D, there is a smooth flat spot right in the middle of the tire!"

Gosh I hate posers!

Glad your not a poser BT. Kiss, kiss, kiss.

 

[BulletTrain]

Yeah Mikey, I'm not the hardest rider here by any means but I've tried to push the busa occasionally. I'd ride harder and use the edges more but I don't get to the good twisties nearly as often as I'd like. I hope to change that next year. Some drag racing and a LOT more twisty action is in the forecast.

 

[gcal]

BT
i was so moved by your experince (yea i know it sounds corny) that i went out and scrounged up $25 to buy the keith codes book.

when i got to the store they had one last copy left and behind it was a new book that just came out this year the book is SPORT RIDING TECHNICES. the bike shop dude said its was alot more updated then the codes book.
needless to say i went ahead and bought the sport riding tec..

i am aready plowing through it like a crack head hitting

his first rock in a month

thanks for ur post ill let u know how the book is and if its worth buying.

g

 

[BulletTrain]

Yeah g, there are other excellent riding books. Some here have recommended others as being better than Code's scribbles I just haven't tried them yet. Code's book has good info and is really helpful in revealing and explaining "Survival Reactions". Identifying those was worth many times the cost of the book for me.

I plan to buy another couple books to read this winter while it's too cold to actually ride and I have a few spare minutes. I wish I had the money to keep myself busy with mods over the winter but that just ain't the case.

 

[erionblade]

Bullet, what a harrowing story!!!

Truth be told I did the same exact thing on a Busa in a turn about the second time I rode it, scared the Hell outa me.
It wasn't my bike which made it worse, but it seemed like I just could not lean that big Ass bike over. Thankfully my story turned out as yours did with a little shoulder excursion that resulted in no damage. I have improved my riding technique since then, but I think I will stick to my little 929. Body Position is the key!!!

BusaGod post those pics of your tires after one day at Texas World Speedway, That's some pretty good lean angle.

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[BulletTrain]

Bullet, what a harrowing story!!!

... Body Position is the key!!!

Yeah, I had my ass centered and glued to the seat and probably little or no weight on the pegs. I got lazy because I allowed myself to take a "just out cruisin' " mind set. Won't happen again. Every turn I approach from now on regardless of speed will find me prepared and positioned accordingly. I'm just thankful that I learned that lesson the easy and pain free way!

 

[gcal]

I wish I had the money to keep myself busy with mods over the winter but that just ain't the case.  

y kiddin?

u dont know the meaning of broke!

if u lived im my broke arss shoes for a day u would take that back.

i have seen pics of ur bike on the site(i think it was yours) and at least yours has all the plastics in one peice and it still shines.
mines, needs left plastics,
new tires ( when i say mines are bold im not kiddin, first gear im wippin all over the place), tune up etc.

so all u people out there be happy with what u got.
belive me u got alot compared to others.....

g

 

[africanrider]

Glad you made it ok....its kindda hard to move on and chuck it to experience without figuring out exactly why it happened. Looks like you have more or less figured what exactly caused the incident

 

[BulletTrain]

Yeah, I had figured out the roll off part and then busagod pointed out the body positioning thing that I had overlooked. I was confident that I new what I done wrong but it still ate at me until I revisited the corner and done it right. That confirmed that it wasn't the roadway, it was me. I like it that way. I didn't want to have to worry about not being able to handle a certain kind of corner. Never know when I might hit a similar corner on an unknown road. Now I know that as long as I don't have my head up my ass I should be ok.