Do You Believe In GOD ?

[99'busa]

Woah.. hmm interesting.. just covered this section with my son the other day


Ok, here is where he created the beasts, then he created man


24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."


Here is where you might get confused, if you notice it reads that God "HAD" formed, meaning he already did form the beasts before hand.


19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [g] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [h] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

If you read all of Genesis 1, it is kind of an overview. Then in Genesis 2:4 he kind of rehashes the overview in Genesis 1 but goes into a little more detail.

Read all of Genisis 1 and Genisis 2 and think about that concept and see if it makes more sense to you

You can start here BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

I was just about to post the EXACT samething. But couldnt get PC Study Bible to copy and paste I should have used Gateway

 

[99'busa]

Of course I won't magically "believe" just because the book you're citing as a source doesn't happen to contradict what it said two pages ago. My problems with theism and organized religion go a lot further than just "the only text we have is flawed." If you actually think you're going to do any conversions or I'm going to fall to my knees and cry "I'm saved" over something I read on a motorcycle forum then I'm sorry but you're barking up an extremely wrong tree.

Here, start with this one:
Joseph, husband of Mary, is once described as the son of Jacob and later as the son of Heli.

or if you prefer:
In Genesis 1 god creates the beasts, then creates man, then gives man dominion over nature.
In the next chapter he claims to have made the beasts after making man because it is not good for man to be alone.
Which was it? Beasts then man or man then beasts? You can't have it both ways even if you're god.

I'll try to get some verses for you on Heli but from my understanding Heli was Jacobs father or Josephs grandfather.

 

[WWJD]

I didn't say YOU said it, and I didn't mean to insinuate that you did.
I have seen, on this forum and others, over and over again, people state that they "do not believe in x accepted theory because..." and then proceed give a ridiculously oversimplified and mischaracterized explanation that, more often than not, has nothing to do with the actual scientific theory. The argument usually degenerates from there to "well if it's true then why is it just a theory?" And that's when Stephen Hawking cries.

As for "all the answers in a step by step scientific delivery," if you're referring to the big bang cosmological model, then yes people have "succeeded," it didn't take "eons" either. It's experimentally verifiable (unlike religion), it's testable (unlike religion), and still remains open for growth and modification.

Ok, whew! Didn't think I came off like that. Believe it or not, I completely empathize with what you say about people's responses sometimes

I meant answers to religious type questions. ya can't just ask every question you ever thought of about God, spirituality, religious, human self on a forum and get all of it answered. just not possible. and our answers may differ from yours.

say, and if/when I come off like a jerk somtimes, I don't mean it. my skillset is more front lines battling directly with 5 or 6 hardcore athiests trying to tear me a new one, so I get a little too direct sometimes. im not perfect by any means

 

[thrasherfox]

Well I think this is where I will bail on the thread.

Experience has taught right about this point is where it can potentially go down hill and people on both sides start to dig their heals in and minds close like a sprung trap door.

If anyone has any serious questions for the desire of knowledge and are searching for answers. PM me.

 

[GSX1300R-T]

WOW! This might be a day record for comments and views on a single post. Hitting the bed,.......Guys and Girls!! Can't wait to see how this blossoms tomorrow. For tonight's prayer,.........I will pray that all who are seeking answers,............will find HIM. Good night, ALL!!!!

 

[99'busa]

LUKE 3:
23And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
24Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,

 

[CrashBomb]

Deuteronomy 24:16
16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

Isaiah 14:21
21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons for the sins of their forefathers; they are not to rise to inherit the land

So do the sons die for the sins of the fathers or does each man die for his own sin?

Look, the truth is we can keep going back and forth like this over and over again as has been done countless times before. It proves nothing. Every thing I can come up with you can explain away with interpretation or textual revisions that differ in the translation of key words. Just as any "proof" of god you can posit can be refuted logically and the argument ends with the theists screaming "you're not allowed to use logic to argue divine providence." It goes nowhere. Do you think I'm not a believer just because I've never heard the sales pitch before?

Enjoy your faith, embrace it, have faith in it, if you feel you need your faith to explain the universe then you're no worse off than the millions of other religious people in the world.

But, as I said earlier, do NOT mischaracterize the accepted cosmological theory as the universe exploding fully formed out of the head of a pin. Your earlier pontification on gravitational theory and the "shape of planets" did exactly that. Stick to your scripture if that's what you're comfortable with. Enjoy your religion, leave cosmology to the scientists.

 

[Ranger]

Easy queezy....

Here, start with this one:
Joseph, husband of Mary, is once described as the son of Jacob and later as the son of Heli.

"Matthew was following the male line: Jesus was the son of Joseph, Joseph was the son of Jacob, etc

Luke was following the female line (Mary), but mentioned the husband of Mary: Jesus' was (as was supposed) son of Joseph, Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli, Heli was the son of Matthat, and so on...

Evidence that Luke was tracing the female side (Mary) is his use of "the" in every name, except for Joseph. This is not evident in an English translation, you need the original Greek version

And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."

In Genesis 1 god creates the beasts, then creates man, then gives man dominion over nature.
In the next chapter he claims to have made the beasts after making man because it is not good for man to be alone.
Which was it? Beasts then man or man then beasts? You can't have it both ways even if you're god.

"There are two explanations for what we read in Genesis 2:19 about these creatures.
The verb “formedâ€￾ can mean “had formedâ€￾ (see Genesis 2:8). This would indicate that God had already formed these creatures as stated in Genesis chapter 1 and was just bringing them to Adam to name.
God could have made (formed) these creatures (birds and non-domesticated animals) in front of Adam rather than bring the ones He had already created on day 6 (Genesis 1:25). This would allow Adam to witness God’s creative powers. This creative act would not be a contradiction to the order in chapter 1, which states that God created the birds on day 5 and all the beast of the earth on day 6 (“chayâ€￾ or non-domesticated beast). He just specially forms more of these these creatures in front of Adam so he can name them."

 

[99'busa]

Easy queezy....



"Matthew was following the male line: Jesus was the son of Joseph, Joseph was the son of Jacob, etc

Luke was following the female line (Mary), but mentioned the husband of Mary: Jesus' was (as was supposed) son of Joseph, Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli, Heli was the son of Matthat, and so on...

Evidence that Luke was tracing the female side (Mary) is his use of "the" in every name, except for Joseph. This is not evident in an English translation, you need the original Greek version

And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him."




"There are two explanations for what we read in Genesis 2:19 about these creatures.
The verb “formedâ€￾ can mean “had formedâ€￾ (see Genesis 2:8). This would indicate that God had already formed these creatures as stated in Genesis chapter 1 and was just bringing them to Adam to name.
God could have made (formed) these creatures (birds and non-domesticated animals) in front of Adam rather than bring the ones He had already created on day 6 (Genesis 1:25). This would allow Adam to witness God’s creative powers. This creative act would not be a contradiction to the order in chapter 1, which states that God created the birds on day 5 and all the beast of the earth on day 6 (“chayâ€￾ or non-domesticated beast). He just specially forms more of these these creatures in front of Adam so he can name them."

Very simply put

 

[CrashBomb]

say, and if/when I come off like a jerk somtimes, I don't mean it. my skillset is more front lines battling directly with 5 or 6 hardcore athiests trying to tear me a new one, so I get a little too direct sometimes. im not perfect by any means

No offense taken, no one is perfect. I'm sure I come across as cold and unwavering at times as well. Much like you, I'm more used to being ganged up on by a dozen or so whateverians who apparently get up every day for the sole purpose of explaining why I'm going to their particular hell.

WWJD, you and I have been down this road before and I have no problems with you at all. If I could pick theists who are at least pleasant and intelligent to argue with you'd definitely be on the list. I have no problems with people of faith; your mind, your conclusions. It's the proselytizing I avoid like any number of biblical plagues.

All I wanted in this thread was for people to stop making Dr. Hawking cry. You wouldn't believe how pitiful the hysterical sobbing can sound coming through a voice synthesizer.

 

[Ranger]

All I wanted in this thread was for people to stop making Dr. Hawking cry. You wouldn't believe how pitiful the hysterical sobbing can sound coming through a voice synthesizer.

Nothing but props for Dr Hawkings, just trying to understand his theories on black holes is mind numbing...Would like to see him work more material issues though!

 

[Bosshound]

You can Quote the Bible all YA WANT ! But If you don't have a Personal Relationship with God then You are Screwed ! and I am Not Talkin about Religion. I am FAR from PERFECT (Look at my Avatar) but God Still LOVES ME

The Point is Be HAPPY and ALLWAYS do the Right thing. Even When know one is LOOKIN

 

[Pardini]

What proof is there that there is not a god ??

I don't think there is definative PROOF either way hence the reliance on faith.

I think it's narrow minded to look at God only from a Christian perspective.

The fact is, we as children are indoctonated with the religion of our parents. If anyone of us was born elsewhere, in a different society/culture our parents would have indoctronated us with some other form of religion. Kids are easily formed into whatever their society wants---Hitler Youth, Eight year olds in Africa toting AK 47's.

Since we know that there are many different religions, what is it that makes all you Christians think that it's your God that created the world and all the other's are wrong?

History has shown that the ruling class gets to pick the religion and the non believers are persecuted. When the ruling class changes and so does the religion, the tables are turned and the genocide is inflicted upon the the previous regime. That's exactly the case in Iraq is it not? Isn't that what happened in the New World? The Spanish and Portugues brought their religion and imposed it on the native peoples. They killed and tortured those the wouldn't convert.

So why have so many been slaughtered in the name of God? Is it just the grown up why frightening adults into believing? The same way we threaten our children to God with the prospect of burning in hell?

 

[CrashBomb]

Would like to see him work more material issues though!

I think I have to disagree with that. A computational mind like his and you think he should be working in euclidean geometry or proving Fermat's last theorem? What a complete waste. No one knows how much time he has left.

Since the Copenhagen interpretation in 1927, the future direction of theoretical physics has been set; that direction is quantum mechanics. Like it or not, the 21st century will be the century of the sub atomic particle just as the 17th was the century of classical mechanics and the 20th was the century of non-euclidean relativity. Bekenstein-Hawking radiation, the questions about quantum gravity, and the black hole information paradox are some of the most important issues we have to address if we are to progress in our understanding of quantum physics. His work on black hole evaporation and the findings of the GLAST satellite mission will almost certainly be invaluable as the ground work for a unified theory in the future.

We're talking about a "theory of everything" here, what's more "material" than that?

 

[rdd102781]

Woah.. hmm interesting.. just covered this section with my son the other day


Ok, here is where he created the beasts, then he created man


24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."


Here is where you might get confused, if you notice it reads that God "HAD" formed, meaning he already did form the beasts before hand.


19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [g] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [h] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

If you read all of Genesis 1, it is kind of an overview. Then in Genesis 2:4 he kind of rehashes the overview in Genesis 1 but goes into a little more detail.

Read all of Genisis 1 and Genisis 2 and think about that concept and see if it makes more sense to you

You can start here BibleGateway.com: Search for a Bible passage in over 35 languages and 50 versions.

But, if god took one of man's ribs and made women, why do we not have one extra rib on one side? Since Christains do not believe in evolution, What happen to the other rib?

 

[Busaman5000]

But, if god took one of man's ribs and made women, why do we not have one extra rib on one side? Since Christains do not believe in evolution, What happen to the other rib?

sticky fingers?

 

[Strife]

Born and raised Catholic. Church every Sunday, Sunday school, communion, the whole nine yards.

Given the history of many religions and lots of things in this present world I don't believe in "God". "The lord works in mysterious ways!" Biggest loophole for people to accept stuff like infants being born deformed(from Very religious families).

To each their own. If I find out I am wrong he will understand cause I have a lot of reasons to justify my lack of faith. Nothing personally(tragedy) happened in my life for me to disbelieve.

The concept of what the belief in "GOD" inspires is a great thing. Gives people something to draw strength from real or not.

If we were to stop teaching about "GOD", what would happen? Not saying we should! Just something to ponder on.

I will say more people who believe are insulted by people who don't believe. Mostly is due to the way we were "trained" growing up. Predilection. If someone is reading this and finding themselves upset my point is proved. ironically shouldn't be upset at all,but forgiving.

I do however wish there was "Solid" proof of his existence. Have "Faith"? Preprogrammed function.

No one individual should have to justify what they do or don't believe in. however no individual should ever try to pursue their beliefs on to another.

Go to sleep,wake up in the morning and be thankful for your surroundings, If you are unhappy with them it's up to you to find a way to change them. How you go about making these changes that will make you happy is solely up to you.

What you read here is only my opinion and should be taken as such.

 

[maxblack]

No, I believe in humanity.

Religion is the ultimate expression of man's egocentricity. It was created by man to serve man.

 

[tegbusa]

BigBang?

 

[maxblack]

BigBang?

Rebuttal:

Big Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia