Clutch slipping after installing new oem fibers, plates and springs

KYBUSA502

Registered
what's up busa addicts, I installed a new oem clutch kit on my K3 (30th anniversary) and it is slipping in each gear after giving the bike 20% throttle. while installing the fibers I looked at a few diagrams but they're not specific enough when describing how the rings go in. there's 2 rings, one is a cone shaped and the other is flat. I want to make sure they are in correctly and also I was wanting to know is there a specific way each fiber should be facing or does it not matter. I know I have them in the right order. but confused about the rings and fiber directions. I have a ride coming up and I really need this finished by the weekend. thanks.
 
The Gen2 manual shows the flat spring washer seat ring is installed first (IDT it matters which side faces out) and the conical spring washer is installed next. The larger diameter of the conical spring washer faces out. My ZX-14 has these these parts installed the same way so I would guess the Gen1 busa is also the same.
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With new fibers, I don't see how you would have reduced the depth of your clutch stack. It would have increased in depth and that would make the clutch grip tighter, not looser. If you also replaced steels, those come in a variety of thicknesses so that you can increase or decrease the clutch pack depth. If the total thickness of the new steels would be less than the total thickness of the old steels, that could cause the clutch to grip looser and allow it to slip. Stamping the blanks for steels causes them to have rounded edges on one side and flat, crisp edges on the other. All of the steels on my 08 ZX-14 had the round edged side of the plate facing inward toward the engine and that is how I reinstalled them.

Did you soak the new fibers in oil overnight before installing?
 
The Gen2 manual shows the flat spring washer seat ring is installed first (IDT it matters which side faces out) and the conical spring washer is installed next. The larger diameter of the conical spring washer faces out. My ZX-14 has these these parts installed the same way so I would guess the Gen1 busa is also the same.
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With new fibers, I don't see how you would have reduced the depth of your clutch stack. It would have increased in depth and that would make the clutch grip tighter, not looser. If you also replaced steels, those come in a variety of thicknesses so that you can increase or decrease the clutch pack depth. If the total thickness of the new steels would be less than the total thickness of the old steels, that could cause the clutch to grip looser and allow it to slip. Stamping the blanks for steels causes them to have rounded edges on one side and flat, crisp edges on the other. All of the steels on my 08 ZX-14 had the round edged side of the plate facing inward toward the engine and that is how I reinstalled them.

Did you soak the new fibers in oil overnight before installing?
so I know for a fact that I installed the first fiber first and the flat washer ring fit perfectly inside the fiber then I put the cone washer ring in. if that is wrong would that cause it to slip?
 
I know for a fact that I installed the first fiber first and the flat washer ring fit perfectly inside the fiber then I put the cone washer ring in. if that is wrong would that cause it to slip?
The Gen2 busa manual says to install the spring washer seat (flat), then the spring washer (conical) with bigger diameter facing outward. Then the plates go in. I am pretty sure the clutch is different for the Gen1 than it is for the Gen2 but I would guess the spring washer seat and the spring washer should be installed first before you put any plates in. I'm pretty sure that's standard procedure for all motorcycles (at least the three I know about). Another standard procedure is that the outermost fiber goes into the slits on the basket rather than between the fingers like the other fibers.

If you have the first fiber in and you put the spring washer seat and the spring washer on top of that, seems to me the spring washer is holding tension away between the first fiber and the rest of the clutch pack. Yes, that would cause the clutch to slip. Also, if you did not install the last fiber in the slits rather than the fingers, it could fall out and the clutch will slip. I don't know if it would hold at all if that happened.



The Gen2 has two kinds of steels and three kinds of fibers and they all go in a specific order. It even looks like the fibers have a correct in and out face. It says nothing about correct in/out face for steels but I was told they should go with the rounded edged side facing in for my Kawasaki. I don't want to post the clucth installation page from the Gen2 Hayabusa manual here because yours is a Gen1 and I'm quite certain that clutch is different than the Gen2

Somebody get the pages from the manual for the Gen1 on here for the guy. This is a 2003 Hayabusa we're talking about, right?
 
The Gen2 busa manual says to install the spring washer seat (flat), then the spring washer (conical) with bigger diameter facing outward. Then the plates go in. I am pretty sure the clutch is different for the Gen1 than it is for the Gen2 but I would guess the spring washer seat and the spring washer should be installed first before you put any plates in. I'm pretty sure that's standard procedure for all motorcycles (at least the three I know about). Another standard procedure is that the outermost fiber goes into the slits on the basket rather than between the fingers like the other fibers.

If you have the first fiber in and you put the spring washer seat and the spring washer on top of that, seems to me the spring washer is holding tension away between the first fiber and the rest of the clutch pack. Yes, that would cause the clutch to slip. Also, if you did not install the last fiber in the slits rather than the fingers, it could fall out and the clutch will slip. I don't know if it would hold at all if that happened.



The Gen2 has two kinds of steels and three kinds of fibers and they all go in a specific order. It even looks like the fibers have a correct in and out face. It says nothing about correct in/out face for steels but I was told they should go with the rounded edged side facing in for my Kawasaki. I don't want to post the clucth installation page from the Gen2 Hayabusa manual here because yours is a Gen1 and I'm quite certain that clutch is different than the Gen2

Somebody get the pages from the manual for the Gen1 on here for the guy. This is a 2003 Hayabusa we're talking about, right?

yes sir it is a 2003 and I know I definitely put the first fiber in then the rings. so I know I have to fix that. next I'm I'm confused when you say the last fiber sides on the fingers and not like the rest of the other ones. I rotated them until they fit and then I pushed them back in.
 
The Gen2 busa manual says to install the spring washer seat (flat), then the spring washer (conical) with bigger diameter facing outward. Then the plates go in. I am pretty sure the clutch is different for the Gen1 than it is for the Gen2 but I would guess the spring washer seat and the spring washer should be installed first before you put any plates in. I'm pretty sure that's standard procedure for all motorcycles (at least the three I know about). Another standard procedure is that the outermost fiber goes into the slits on the basket rather than between the fingers like the other fibers.

If you have the first fiber in and you put the spring washer seat and the spring washer on top of that, seems to me the spring washer is holding tension away between the first fiber and the rest of the clutch pack. Yes, that would cause the clutch to slip. Also, if you did not install the last fiber in the slits rather than the fingers, it could fall out and the clutch will slip. I don't know if it would hold at all if that happened.



The Gen2 has two kinds of steels and three kinds of fibers and they all go in a specific order. It even looks like the fibers have a correct in and out face. It says nothing about correct in/out face for steels but I was told they should go with the rounded edged side facing in for my Kawasaki. I don't want to post the clucth installation page from the Gen2 Hayabusa manual here because yours is a Gen1 and I'm quite certain that clutch is different than the Gen2

Somebody get the pages from the manual for the Gen1 on here for the guy. This is a 2003 Hayabusa we're talking about, right?
also i appreciate you responding as quick as you did most people take a day or so to reply. thanks for that
 
yes sir it is a 2003 and I know I definitely put the first fiber in then the rings. so I know I have to fix that. next I'm I'm confused when you say the last fiber sides on the fingers and not like the rest of the other ones. I rotated them until they fit and then I pushed them back in.
Aren't the rings supposed to go first?
 
Aren't the rings supposed to go first?
Yes.
Before the fiber
Yes, the spring washer seat and then the spring washer go first, then the first fiber.


1) The flat ring. (spring washer seat)

2) The cone ring (spring washer) with larger diameter of cone facing out toward you.

3) The first fiber. That first fiber is different than all the others, you can't swap positions with any of the others. The first fiber has a noticeably larger inner diameter than the other fibers.

Now that I look at it, that larger inner diameter of the first fiber might be there to allow the spring washer to fit through the inner diameter. If that's the case, it might not matter if the the spring washer seat and then the spring washer were put in first or if the first fiber was put in first. The spring washer might be meant to pass through the first fiber and press against the first steel.

Either way, you have to tear it apart again and check what's going on.

I'm confused when you say the last fiber sides on the fingers and not like the rest of the other ones. I rotated them until they fit and then I pushed them back in.

Damn busa brothers, we have to have a picture of a kawasucky to show how to put a busa together?

Here is a picture of my 14's clutch plate install. The blue dots mark the slits. The yellow bands mark the fingers. Between the fingers, there is a groove that all the tongues on the inner fibers fit in. The outer fiber tongues do not go in the grooves between the fingers like the others. You turn the outer fiber one space so it's tongues fit in the slits. The slits and fingers alternate all around the basket. Fingers, slits, fingers, slits, fingers, slits.... ok this is serious no jokes, please.
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Once again, I'm telling you what the Gen2 service manual shows. I don't want to post that because you have a Gen1 and I'm about 90% certain your clutch is not the same as mine. Also, we have a ZX-14 clutch here as an example for a busa clutch but it's probably a better picture of the slits than what you will see in either the Gen1 or Gen2 busa manual.

Here's a link I found on another thread to Gen1 busa service manual. I didn't want to even get it on my computer, I backed out. No idea if this carries a virus or not. There's a link on the last post that goes to some site that has a button marked 99-07 Hayabusa Service Manual. Try your luck if you want.


WOULD somebody PLEASE get this man a Gen1 service manual??

PLEASE??

 
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Yes and that is wrong according to procedure. I have feeling it does not matter if the spring seat/spring washer go in first or if the first fiber goes in first. Seems like the spring washer might pass through the inner diameter of the first fiber and rest against the first steel. If the spring washer passes through the first fiber's inner diameter it isn't applying pressure to the first fiber anyway.

I'd do it according the book. So let's get the book, somebody.
 
@Mythos
in principle gen1 and gen2 clutches are similar
the friction and steel rings are more or less equal

if the last friction´s finger is not set one over, the clutch likes to slide (your blue dots and yellow line - 2nd pic is 100% right )

and the flat and the cone ring have to be put in first - youre also right
also equal at gen1 and gen2
 
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