Good Laugh.. alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Let's have a moment of silence for all the blonde jokes that have been uttered

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Of course I'm blending social issues, they don't exist independently of each other, they all interplay.
The US is indeed better from an economical stand point, and in a shorter period of time. Why do you think that is? American exceptionalism? Is this country just "better" than others?
When access to the wealth you correctly point out as providing privilege has been systematically denied to persons other than whites, wealth privilege becomes indistinguishable from white privilege. Africa would likely have fared better had colonialism not destroyed and removed resources and population from it. To say that white privilege is absent in Africa is flatly untrue, you're old enough to remember apartheid, right?
It's not a matter of what works or what doesn't, it's a matter of access to what works. This country was set up for a certain portion of the population to be successful: white, land owning men. The constitution was literally written with that purpose in mind, it says so. Why are people so surprised to discover that it worked?

Ummm I don't know how much of this I'm willing to unpack here.

Let's start with character. And maybe that can cover a few at once. We live in a time now where it's become OK to call women *ithces and ho's and call it culture.

And women to gain acceptance walk down that path of culture. I'm no social scientist but maybe the rise in rapes has something to do with this culture/character shift.

For the women that don't feel they are part of that character, still are faced with the portion of men walking the streets that are.

Yes I remember Apartheid. I also know what has happened to S. Africa prior and post. Africa has a lot of Continent left over that hasn't had the oppression of Apartheid to deal with. How has it fared?

To your point on the Constitution I will agree. At the time of it's writing the all white Christian founders wrote a document that protected their interest. They risked all they had to come here and carve out a place to start over. It reflected the values they shared. They had absolutely no concept that this country would be faced with Muslims, illegal aliens etc. streaming into our country when they wrote the document.

That document has been amended from time to time to reflect our country as it evolves. It allowed Barrack Obama to be elected as a president.

Character is not once uttered in that document. I think it's up to us to recognize it when we see it.
 
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Ummm I don't know how much of this I'm willing to unpack here.
If not here, where? If we cannot have reasonable discourse, how will we solve the issues that divide us? Talking about it is the first step.

Let's start with character. And maybe that can cover a few at once. We live in a time now where it's become OK to call women *ithces and ho's and call it culture.
There is a clear difference between something being okay and it being common. It's not ok to call women that, or to refer to anyone else in a derogatory manner. It happens frequently unfortunately.

And women to gain acceptance walk down that path of culture. I'm no social scientist but maybe the rise in rapes has something to do with this culture/character shift.
Where do you find a rise in rapes? If what you're saying is true, (and there is no evidence to support it, violent crime has actually been decreasing for 40 years or so) your argument seems to be that if women want to be treated as equals, that's just something they'll have to accept?

For the women that don't feel they are part of that character, still are faced with the portion of men walking the streets that are.
I'm not sure what you mean here.

Yes I remember Apartheid. I also know what has happened to S. Africa prior and post. Africa has a lot of Continent left over that hasn't had the oppression of Apartheid to deal with. How has it fared?
Colonialism has left no part of the African continent untouched. From Cairo to Capetown the imprint of European influence is clear, and not always for the better. South Africa is struggling with the aftermath of apartheid, to think it would just fix itself immediately upon its ending is foolish. One cannot undo generational institutional oppression in a couple of generations, that's not how societies work. It takes time....

To your point on the Constitution I will agree. At the time of it's writing the all white Christian founders wrote a document that protected their interest. They risked all they had to come here and carve out a place to start over. It reflected the values they shared. They had absolutely no concept that this country would be faced with Muslims, illegal aliens etc. streaming into our country when they wrote the document.
You seem to be taking the position that Muslims are bad? I disagree, I think lumping all believers of any religion into one category doesn't do anyone justice. Are all Christians the same? All Jews? I think not.
The founders couldn't conceive of illegals streaming into the country you say? There's some irony there my friend. Yes, they risked all they had, and then designed a place that ensured they would never have to risk that ever again. By design, the rest of us (minorities, women, and yes, poor whites) have had to fight against the tide to succeed. The separation between Americans on racial as opposed to class lines is the subject of much debate, and many books have been written about it. I do find it interesting that despite the many commonalities shared, race is the dividing line so often and successfully exploited by politicians. It's easy to determine, deeply socialized, and incredibly effective. Almost as effective a mechanism of division as religion. Combine the two and you have a very powerful weapon.....

That document has been amended from time to time to reflect our country as it evolves. It allowed Barrack Obama to be elected as a president.
The fact that one person out of the 45 to hold the office was of half minority ancestry supports rather than opposes my point. For example, women make up over half of the US population, yet they are seen in nowhere near those numbers in Congress.

Character is not once uttered in that document. I think it's up to us to recognize it when we see it.
Character is manifested in many different ways, and I agree that it is in the eye of the beholder. How that beholder defines it is the key. Is a person to be judged on the basis of a single action? If I dress, speak, look a certain way, is that all that I am?
 
If not here, where? If we cannot have reasonable discourse, how will we solve the issues that divide us? Talking about it is the first step.

There is a clear difference between something being okay and it being common. It's not ok to call women that, or to refer to anyone else in a derogatory manner. It happens frequently unfortunately.

Where do you find a rise in rapes? If what you're saying is true, (and there is no evidence to support it, violent crime has actually been decreasing for 40 years or so) your argument seems to be that if women want to be treated as equals, that's just something they'll have to accept?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Colonialism has left no part of the African continent untouched. From Cairo to Capetown the imprint of European influence is clear, and not always for the better. South Africa is struggling with the aftermath of apartheid, to think it would just fix itself immediately upon its ending is foolish. One cannot undo generational institutional oppression in a couple of generations, that's not how societies work. It takes time....

You seem to be taking the position that Muslims are bad? I disagree, I think lumping all believers of any religion into one category doesn't do anyone justice. Are all Christians the same? All Jews? I think not.
The founders couldn't conceive of illegals streaming into the country you say? There's some irony there my friend. Yes, they risked all they had, and then designed a place that ensured they would never have to risk that ever again. By design, the rest of us (minorities, women, and yes, poor whites) have had to fight against the tide to succeed. The separation between Americans on racial as opposed to class lines is the subject of much debate, and many books have been written about it. I do find it interesting that despite the many commonalities shared, race is the dividing line so often and successfully exploited by politicians. It's easy to determine, deeply socialized, and incredibly effective. Almost as effective a mechanism of division as religion. Combine the two and you have a very powerful weapon.....

The fact that one person out of the 45 to hold the office was of half minority ancestry supports rather than opposes my point. For example, women make up over half of the US population, yet they are seen in nowhere near those numbers in Congress.

Character is manifested in many different ways, and I agree that it is in the eye of the beholder. How that beholder defines it is the key. Is a person to be judged on the basis of a single action? If I dress, speak, look a certain way, is that all that I am?
One issue at a time is easier than lumping 4 issues as way to dilute one.

First. I never said I disliked Muslims. Ever. Our forefathers came here with the motion of building a Christian based country with values they were the most aware of. Had they had any idea that Muslims would be here, the constitution would probably have been drafted differently. At this portion of our society the right to practice any religion or no religion is still a constitutional certainty. I personally know of no bad Muslims in this country. But that doesn't mean some here may not prefer to see me dead than alive since I'm not Muslim like them. We have no screening process to sort out which Muslim believes what. 9/11 should have taught us something. Sadly it appears too many support the notion that we should do nothing to protect ourselves from those that may wish us harm.

Second. If I am female walking to work that doesn't support the notion that I am nobody's Ho or *itch, there is nothing to stop a male who believes that she is there as his potential one to them. As I said in my earlier response, I'm no social engineer, so I haven't taken the time to determine if the incidence of rape is connected. But what I don't see is anyone saying that the culture of calling the a *itch or Ho should be frowned upon. We can't frown upon it if it's a portrayal of culture. It's not allowed if that culture is perpetuated by certain skin colors. I do know that when I was a kid, the crime of rape was a capital crime punishable by death. I wonder what happened to that part of this equation?

Third. So in your view it takes generations to work things out after harm has been done. Can you help us understand why the Irish that were hated (The only good Irishman is a Dead Irishman), have assimilated in our successful formula in less than 2 generations? Or the Asians who were here to replace the now outlawed slave labor were imported to build our railroads, have managed to assimilate into our successful formula in about 2 generations?

Yet both of those examples arrived after the Africans came here, yet they have figure out sooner?

Fourth: The fact that Barrack Obama is only one out of 45 presidents has what to do with racism? Maybe he has been the only black candidate that more than 15% of the population could stand behind as a presidential candidate. I voted for him his first term. I did not after that. In some ways I miss him as a man in the office of president. He showed me more family values and compassion towards his fellow man than Trump ever has so far. However being a good man doesn't make someone a good president. But that is another thread topic.

My friend, I take no issue with a persons skin color. Or religion. Or sex. Not saying that I represent everyone of my race. But what I do see happening in this country, is a lowering of standards in the name of diversity, to accomplish some ideal that we have too high a standard set forth by some oppressive white race to exclude others.

My neighbor is a retired Oncologist. A black retired Oncologist. He never got a pass on the criteria needed to become an Oncologist. He had to to do the same work as everyone else. As a result he became the same type Oncologist as anyone else that can make it through all it takes to be one. And he is not complaining about his outcome in life. All of his kids have grown up to do well. I asked him how he did it. He is quick to answer. I stayed on them to do the right thing. Study hard, work hard, and take responsibility. None of his kids were ever going to be wearing their pants hanging off their ass or being disrespectful to anyone. If they tried it, he would "crack em in the ass" as he puts it. I do not know if he represents his race in a manner they like or not, all I know is we don't need to talk about skin color. I was raised the same way his kids were. They also turned out OK. We share the same thing called "character". You can define that any way you see fit. People of the same character tend to stay with people of the same character as a first choice. Then they go to the differing character as long as it isn't too far away from what they know best. The farthest away groups of people are, the harder it is for them to come together.

We don't need to build more diversity, we need to learn to build less.

At no time in my life do I have to to be told I'm offending an Asian or an Irishmen. Yet it almost seems daily I am now bombarded with how I am offending African Americans.

Morgan Freeman said it best.

 
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One issue at a time is easier than lumping 4 issues as way to dilute one.
As I said, they're all related. To pretend otherwise is to ignore the obvious.

First. I never said I disliked Muslims. Ever. Our forefathers came here with the motion of building a Christian based country with values they were the most aware of. Had t hey had any idea that Muslims would be here, the constitution would probably have been drafted differently. At this portion of our society the right to practice any religion or no religion is still a constitutional certainty. I personally know of no bad Muslims in this country. But that doesn't mean some here may not prefer to see me dead than alive since I'm not Muslim like them. We have no screening process to sort out which Muslim believes what. 9/11 should have taught us something. Sadly it appears too many support the notion that we should do nothing to protect ourselves from those that may wish us harm.
The founding fathers gave no indication that they intended this country to be Christian. In fact, when given the opportunity to officially declare a religion, they chose to specifically state that freedom of it was a value they held dear. Just so as we are clear, the values attributed to Christianity in terms of legality predate Jesus by many years. The Ten Commandments aren't Christian in origin. The logic used to exclude Muslims in your statement is terminally flawed. If we choose to disallow access to a large population based on the views of "...some...prefer(ing) to see me dead..." then we may as well stop immigration in its entirety. Some Chinese would probably like to see America destroyed, some Germans, some Brits, etc. That doesn't even address the fact that without a viable screening process as you accurately point out, there is no way to distinguish between people by their intent, yet immigrants from Muslim states such as Saudi are acceptable? SO what is the factor that determines their eligibility? The Muslim ban is yet another example of popular rhetoric making for terrible policy.

Second. If I am female walking to work that doesn't support the notion that I am nobody's Ho or *itch, there is nothing to stop a male who believes that she is there as his potential one to them. As I said in my earlier response, I'm no social engineer, so I haven't taken the time to determine if the incidence of rape is connected. But what I don't see is anyone saying that the culture of calling the a *itch or Ho should be frowned upon. We can't frown upon it if it's a portrayal of culture. It's not allowed if that culture is perpetuated by certain skin colors. I do know that when I was a kid, the crime of rape was a capital crime punishable by death. I wonder what happened to that part of this equation?
There are methods by which those who study society determine how things are connected, and those methods indicate that incidents of rape and other violent crimes have been steadily declining for decades. Attributing a nonexistent rise in something to a "culture" associated with skin color is not possible by definition. Trump for example has an extremely low opinion of women in general, (except his daughter, and that's weird in a whole different way....) and that is a far more influential platform than some kid walking down the street calling women itches and hos. One certainly doesn't excuse the other by any means, but we have to look at society as whole in order to understand a systemic problem.

Third. So in your view it takes generations to work things out after harm has been done. Can you help us understand why the Irish that were hated (The only good Irishman is a Dead Irishman), have assimilated in our successful formula in less than 2 generations? Or the Asians who were here to replace the now outlawed slave labor were imported to build our railroads, have managed to assimilate into our successful formula in about 2 generations?
The process of change is called socialization, it's the process by which we become members of a society. It does take generations, legislation of something can be immediate, but acceptance of the reality that legislation effects takes time.
I'm glad you asked, because I can explain both of those phenomena. The first is easy: Irish immigrants were indeed hated, as were most groups when they got here, but they were never subject to the same legal, systematic, dehumanizing discrimination that blacks were, and assimilation is obviously far easier if you look like the people you wish to join. With regard to Asian immigration, one needs to look at the countries of origin. The Chinese who built the railroads are not the only population of Asians in this country, rates of poverty, crime and economic success vary widely within Asian groups. While they are often upheld as a "model minority", aspirational for other groups of non-whites, the facts don't bear this out.

Yet both of those examples arrived after the Africans came here, yet they have figure out sooner?
An important distinction to note, Africans didn't come here, they were brought unwillingly, and upon arrival were stripped of every remaining vestige of the culture they had left. Religion, family, identity, custom, food, all of these were forcibly removed. The fact that they were often sold into it by people who looked like them doesn't make it any less traumatic.

My friend, I take no issue with a persons skin color. Or religion. Or sex. Not saying that I represent everyone of my race. But what I do happening in this country, is a lowering of standards in the name of diversity, to accomplish some ideal that we have too high a standard set forth by some oppressive white race to exclude others.
What are these standards you speak of? And who is lowering them? Would the population of the country that was here when the founders showed up have considered the values, customs and traditions they brought with them a lowering of standards? Arguably, they did and when they resisted that change they were met with systematic eradication. I do not doubt for a moment that you are a good man, but you hold biases, and some of those are racial. We all do, they are impossible to escape. When people say "I don't see color", I laugh. Of course they do, we all do. The issue is when we rank skin color in a hierarchy and attribute values, behavior and morals to an individual based on membership in that group.
My neighbor is a retired Oncologist. A black retired Oncologist. He never got a pass on the criteria needed to become an Oncologist. He had to to do the same work as everyone else. As a result he became the same type Oncologist as anyone else that can make it through all it takes to be one. And he is not complaining about his outcome in life. Al of his kids have grown up to do well. I asked him how he did it. He is quick to answer. I stayed on them to do the right thing. Study hard, work hard, and take responsibility. None of his kids were ever going to be wearing their pants hanging off their ass or being disrespectful to anyone. If they tried it, he would "crack em in the ass" as he puts it. I do not know if he represents his race in a manner they like or not, all I know is we don't need to talk about skin color. I was raised the same way his kids were. They also turned out OK. We share the same thing called "character". You can define that anyway you see fit, people of the same character tend to stay with people of the same character as a first choice. Then they go to the a differing character as long as it isn't too far away from what they know best. The farthest away groups of people are, the harder it is for them to come together.
I'm glad your neighbor is a successful man, and that he has raised a successful family. Ask him how many times he had to swallow his pride and accept what was being dished out in the name of pursuing that success. Ask him how many opportunities were denied to him as a result of nothing more than something as arbitrary as skin color. He has made a success of himself in spite of the obstacles, this in no way suggests that such obstacles don't exist.

We don't need to build more diversity, we need to learn to build less.
Inclusion requires diversity. Differences are valuable to the whole. You and I are tall, we are more suited for tasks shorter people are not. I think diversity strengthens a group, enable it to persevere through difficult times.

At no time in my life do I have to to be told I'm offending an Asian or an Irishmen. Yet it almost seems daily I am now bombarded with how I am offending African Americans.
Who tells you daily you're offending blacks?

Morgan Freeman said it best.
I like Morgan, but he's wrong on that. Flat, plain, unsupportably wrong. Wealth and race are inversely related to each other in this country. Non-whites are more likely to be poor, uneducated, unhealthy and die sooner.

I am thoroughly enjoying this conversation, thank you for being willing to engage in it.
 
Mr. Brown,
I grabbed this from above because it's on only part I wanted to comment on:
The Muslim ban is yet another example of popular rhetoric making for terrible policy.

There is no Muslim ban. The US government is barring access to the US to all citizens of some countries that have a significant terrorist presence among other reasons. Once again this is for all citizens of those countries regardless of their religious affiliation. It actually restricts a very small portion of the world wide Muslim population from lawful entry into the US.

I believe this is the current list of countries:
Iran
Libya
North Korea
Somalia
Syria
Venezuela
Yemen
 
Socialism/communism (a distinction without a difference) has killed over 200 million people in the last century alone, how is this even a conversation? I'll tell you why, our schools have been indoctrinating our children for decades and not only not teaching American exceptionalism but actually teaching that we are an evil empire who's ill gotten gains have come at the expense of slaves and exploiting the rest of the world. Live your life, stay vigilant and well armed!
 
Muslims do Not belong in America.
There religeon of "peace"(bs) does Not line up with western values.
2/3 of the Koran is dedicated to the "killing of the infadels", infadels being Anyone who disagrees with their belifes.
Myself, a Christian, yes I am a hypocrit.
However, you've got to be one hell of a hypocrit to disavow 2/3 of your "holy book", just because it isn't PC to belive you should kill all who disagree with you.
Terrorists are Islamic Extremists?
Why? They just belive in their religeon, and follow it accordingly, really can't blame them for that.
As for the muslim who moved to the U.S, truly just wants to live in peace, and bothers no one; great, I have no personal problem with you...but I do Not trust you, and never will.
Look at the muslim MN congresswoman Omar. Twice now she's said antisemantic remarks against Jews...and why wouldn't she? They Hate Jews, they hate Christians, and they hate everyone who doesn't side with them.
Does anyone really think that if terrorists were over taking this country, that the "good" muslims would rally and stop them?
Lol, no, they would not.
Am I an Islamiphobic? Absoloutely and unapologetically.
How about a racist? Against muslims, sure.
How about racist against everyone else?
Nope, not a bit. No other race, color, creed, or religeon is trying to conquer the world by force, and kill all in opposition.
You can watch videos all day of muslims laughing, telling how they have infiltrated our government, and use our own PC laws to protect themselves.
It is a pathetic joke that there are 2 muslims in congress now.
This is how myself and Many feel.
No, I am not sorry.
 
Mr. Brown,
I grabbed this from above because it's on only part I wanted to comment on:
The Muslim ban is yet another example of popular rhetoric making for terrible policy.

There is no Muslim ban. The US government is barring access to the US to all citizens of some countries that have a significant terrorist presence among other reasons. Once again this is for all citizens of those countries regardless of their religious affiliation. It actually restricts a very small portion of the world wide Muslim population from lawful entry into the US.

I believe this is the current list of countries:
Iran
Libya
North Korea
Somalia
Syria
Venezuela
Yemen
Agreed, there is no ban on specific religious groups. However, the desired effect was to restrict access to those who hold particular religious views, which effectively make it religious based. It's not dissimilar to drug legislation enacted not against groups of people, but against groups who do what those people do.
 
Muslims do Not belong in America.
There religeon of "peace"(bs) does Not line up with western values.
2/3 of the Koran is dedicated to the "killing of the infadels", infadels being Anyone who disagrees with their belifes.
Myself, a Christian, yes I am a hypocrit.
However, you've got to be one hell of a hypocrit to disavow 2/3 of your "holy book", just because it isn't PC to belive you should kill all who disagree with you.
Terrorists are Islamic Extremists?
Why? They just belive in their religeon, and follow it accordingly, really can't blame them for that.
As for the muslim who moved to the U.S, truly just wants to live in peace, and bothers no one; great, I have no personal problem with you...but I do Not trust you, and never will.
Look at the muslim MN congresswoman Omar. Twice now she's said antisemantic remarks against Jews...and why wouldn't she? They Hate Jews, they hate Christians, and they hate everyone who doesn't side with them.
Does anyone really think that if terrorists were over taking this country, that the "good" muslims would rally and stop them?
Lol, no, they would not.
Am I an Islamiphobic? Absoloutely and unapologetically.
How about a racist? Against muslims, sure.
How about racist against everyone else?
Nope, not a bit. No other race, color, creed, or religeon is trying to conquer the world by force, and kill all in opposition.
You can watch videos all day of muslims laughing, telling how they have infiltrated our government, and use our own PC laws to protect themselves.
It is a pathetic joke that there are 2 muslims in congress now.
This is how myself and Many feel.
No, I am not sorry.
Is Fred Phelps a representative example of Christianity?
 
Is Fred Phelps a representative example of Christianity?

I don't know who he is.
It is irrelavent to my opinion regardless who he is either.
I, as I said, and have said many times, am a Christian, And a hypocrit and a sinner, far from perfect, and I think I am better than no one.
However, this does not change my opinion on the Facts about muslims.
They hate everyone that isn't muslim, and if by chance an idividual muslim does not...
then seperate yourself from the religeon of hate.
And, why should muslims get special uniform and holiday privilages?
Why should they get as many breaks needed per shift, to make sure they get to "pray" 5 times a day?
I stand by everything I said, and will continue to.
 
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I do not know who he is .

It is irrelevant to my opinion
regardless who he is either .


However,
this does not change my opinion
on the Facts about muslims .

They hate everyone
that is not muslim ,
and if by chance
an individual
muslim does not . . .

Then seperate yourself

from the religion of hate .

 
And, this country was founded on Christian values. Only 3 of the 10 Commandments apply directly to God.
As for the rest, which are basically not to steal, covet, murder, to honor your parents, etc, is as it Should be.
If someone does not belive in God, that is their right.
However, anyone living in this country needs to abide by the laws we were founded on.
Christian churches don't go over so well in muslim lands do they. Nor should mosques ever be in this country.
Especially a mosque at Ground Zero! Wtf!
If there was ever a bigger "In your face" than that!.
Yep, muslim terrorists(including those and their sympathizers in our govt) kill 3k+ Americans on 911...and there is a f*cking mosque at ground zero now.
And that doesn't bother people?
It bothers Alot of us, badly!!!
 
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