WTH is up with our government?

[skydivr]

all 50 states should reject the federal goverment, close it down to skeleton crew, and return the power of the people to the states. Each state has the right to govern our selves. Then each their own pick a state that aligns with your beliefs and move to that state. I know its a pipe dream but we can wish...

No, that's the wrong answer. We really ARE stronger together than separate. What we REALLY need is the size/reach of the Federal Govt to stop growing taking authority they don't have, and recede some. If it takes a convention of states to strip some power from the union, so be it. Term limits for Congress would go a long way...

 

[Greenfieldbusa]

No, that's the wrong answer. We really ARE stronger together than separate. What we REALLY need is the size/reach of the Federal Govt to stop growing taking authority they don't have, and recede some. If it takes a convention of states to strip some power from the union, so be it. Term limits for Congress would go a long way...

I think that term limits would be the best change we could make. The founding fathers saw public service as public service, not as a career. Turn them out every few years and you'd get people to take the "service" part of it more seriously. The other thing I'd suggest is to reverse the Supreme Court decision that money equals speech- because money isn't speech, it's a megaphone that drowns out the speech of the average citizen.

 

[captain]

Here is a couple of thoughts...

1. Term limits are okay as the standards go today but if we changed a few things it might not be so bad. Currently our leaders get free reign to vote themselves what they want, that needs to change. We need incentives to make them want to do better.

• They get the same health care that everyone else gets.
• They get the same pay and retirement as let's say a Major or Colonel makes in the military.
• They get the same VA options after retirement

Some KPI's (Key Performance Measures)

• The budget has to balance and be sumbitted, maybe a bonus for them if it does.

You might find that folks would be voting for some great improvements for those that need and deserve them most.


What else could we measure our leaders on?​

 

[Greenfieldbusa]

Here is a couple of thoughts...

1. Term limits are okay as the standards go today but if we changed a few things it might not be so bad. Currently our leaders get free reign to vote themselves what they want, that needs to change. We need incentives to make them want to do better.

• They get the same health care that everyone else gets.
• They get the same pay and retirement as let's say a Major or Colonel makes in the military.
• They get the same VA options after retirement

Some KPI's (Key Performance Measures)

• The budget has to balance and be sumbitted, maybe a bonus for them if it does.

You might find that folks would be voting for some great improvements for those that need and deserve them most.


What else could we measure our leaders on?​

Very good question- we have so many problems. Our infrastructure is crumbling, college costs are out of control, healthcare is a mess- we need improvements in all of these areas. It would be nce to see progress in any of them, but we really need to work on all of them.

 

[justintime2]

DC needs more mobs in Washington showing up with perverbial pitch forks when they either suggest or pass unconstitutional garbage, bring back tar and feathering...

 

[justintime2]

?..The other thing I'd suggest is to reverse the Supreme Court decision that money equals speech- because money isn't speech, it's a megaphone that drowns out the speech of the average citizen.

The average citizen doesn't have a clue how their government works, doesn't pay any taxes (nearly 50% of them anyway) nor do they care. It's now race wars, social justice warriors, safe spaces, class envy, socialism, communism and Pokemon go. Media's corrupt/biased and every level of government in every branch is seeded with big government, anti constitution sycophants, we ain't changing $h!t...

 

[fallenarch]

Arch, given all that's gone on recently, I could understand your worry about that. "TRUST" is a 2-way street...and I think there are actors that are deliberately trying to make it worse, not better. But I think that's overestimating how many "rogue cops" are out there. However, IF I were in your situation (and I'm admittedly not), being calm, polite and non-confrontational would certainly fall in your favor. I know you've seen that Chris Rock "how to not get your a** beat by police" video; yet the 'advice' presented is valid for everyone stopped, regardless of color...while humorous, there is an element of truth to it...

I was taught to be polite to cops at a very young age. My parents reminded me of that every time I left the house as a teenager. Still that didn't stop me from getting stopped 3 times in the 10 mile drive from the rental car place to my home because it was a Caddy. Another time a white drunk guy ran into me from behind while I was sitting at a stop light. The officer wrote it up as no fault, I ended up paying a $250 deductible because a drunk guy hit me! I guess I sort of don't see why I have to let a police officer mistreat me ever, I pay their salary don't I. Theoretically I could make a citizen's arrest of a police officer right? If I'm being honest though the police have been pretty cool to me. I was stopped going 100 mph by a white cop with a deep southern accent in the back roads of NC and he gave me a warning (apparently that never happens). But if I had to deal with that crap day in and day out I can't say I wouldn't get tired of it eventually.

I remember the Rodney King incident. Back then a lot of middle class Blacks (like me) didn't even believe the stuff inner city Blacks said the police were doing (the movie "Straight outta Compton" gives insight to a time when things almost exploded before). But now when it's on video you can't ignore it. As for solutions? I say 1) Integrate police forces so they reflect the community. Give military guys a bonus to go into the force if you can't get applicants. 2) Civilian over-sight of PD's. 3) Bring down the blue curtain. I don't want a single cop to be injured because they were afraid to use their weapon, but they also cannot make mistakes that take a life without repercussions. I think all of these things could be done easily if they wanted. It won't stop police shootings, but it will take the us against them rioting out of the picture and give a hope of returning to a reasonably peaceful society.

 

[fallenarch]

BTW Sky, Trust is not a 2-way street in this case IMHO. A cop does not ever have a justification for treating me improperly because of what another black person may have done or what they perceive black people to do. Rights belong to the individual as an individual, not as a member of a class, religion, race, or gender.

 

[skydivr]

BTW Sky, Trust is not a 2-way street in this case IMHO. A cop does not ever have a justification for treating me improperly because of what another black person may have done or what they perceive black people to do. Rights belong to the individual as an individual, not as a member of a class, religion, race, or gender.

You misread me Arch (by the way, your previous post was pretty dang good.) No, an officer does not have justification for treating you improperly JUST because of your race. However, if you (or me) fit the description of a suspect in a nearby felony crime, I can understand why they may not take too many chances on being too polite and worrying about your feelings. You walked away from all three of those stops because you remained calm and complied with the officers. At the current moment, the recent ambushes on police have got them all very cautious, and may make things WORSE for the black community, because the impression at the moment is that they are the targets. Rodney King got his ass kicked (improperly, btw) because he ran from and taunted the police while he put other citizens in danger. Still the beating he got was NOT justified (a taser on the other hand.. )

In EVERY single large-profile case recently EXCEPT the one with the mental patient, the person who got shot RAN OR FOUGHT with the arresting officers, and EVERY ONE of them would be alive today and free to sue all they wanted over unfair treatment if they HAD NOT FOUGHT THE POLICE. PERIOD.

Two things EVERYBODY needs to remember:
1. Being calm, measured polite and compliant (even if they want to cuff you) at the scene will keep you from likely being shot.
2. Save any injustice you may feel for the courtroom LATER (Go ahead with your bad self on that citizen's arrest and see how far that gets you).....
3. The MOMENT you start a fight with an officer, your chances of walking away unscathed go waaay down...

 

[Trout]

...In EVERY single large-profile case recently EXCEPT the one with the mental patient, the person who got shot RAN OR FOUGHT with the arresting officers, and EVERY ONE of them would be alive today and free to sue all they wanted over unfair treatment if they HAD NOT FOUGHT THE POLICE. PERIOD.

I don't think that Philando Castile was running or fighting, but your point is well taken.

 

[skydivr]

I don't think that Philando Castile was running or fighting, but your point is well taken.

You may be right about him, waiting to see what investigation determines. Which also leads to how you conduct yourself on a police stop when you are CCW...

 

[WuzzaCBXRider]

..."In EVERY single large-profile case recently EXCEPT the one with the mental patient, the person who got shot RAN OR FOUGHT with the arresting officers, and EVERY ONE of them would be alive today and free to sue all they wanted over unfair treatment if they HAD NOT FOUGHT THE POLICE. PERIOD."

So, it's ok that they were shot, because they were resisting arrest?

 

[Trout]

..."In EVERY single large-profile case recently EXCEPT the one with the mental patient, the person who got shot RAN OR FOUGHT with the arresting officers, and EVERY ONE of them would be alive today and free to sue all they wanted over unfair treatment if they HAD NOT FOUGHT THE POLICE. PERIOD."

So, it's ok that they were shot, because they were resisting arrest?

I believe that the point being made here is that people who are helpful and cooperative are very unlikely to be shot... or tased... or knocked with a baton.

 

[captain]

..."In EVERY single large-profile case recently EXCEPT the one with the mental patient, the person who got shot RAN OR FOUGHT with the arresting officers, and EVERY ONE of them would be alive today and free to sue all they wanted over unfair treatment if they HAD NOT FOUGHT THE POLICE. PERIOD."

So, it's ok that they were shot, because they were resisting arrest?

The key point to take away is that violence erupts when things escalate, it takes two people for this to happen. (In most situations, we see clearly that the man lying on his back was as far from escalating as you can be). When you have two people that both believe they are "Justified" or one is being "Vilified" in their actions the escalation begins. The very best thing a person could do is comply and record the ENTIRE event as we have seen with the man lying on his back. You can't take 10 seconds of a video you have to see the whole thing and we did in that example, short clips cause speculation and allow emotion to take over decision making. Full videos allow very clear context to be shown which allows for objective judgments from the viewer. We have seen other cases where we did not get all of the data just the pieces people wanted us to see which is the same model the media uses, the viewer decides the situation based on their experiences and that leads to more misalignment which brews up an unnecessary, unjustified and unproductive response from the citizens. Rinse, Repeat and the whole situation continues to now escalate until someone starts ambushing cops.

 

[Greenfieldbusa]

We'd all like for there to be an easy answer. Unfortunately, there isn't one.

I'm an old, white Navy vet. I'm not the least bit afraid of the police and they aren't afraid of me- and most importantly, we both know that on sight.

But if I was a young black guy, I sure as hell would be afraid of them. And I would understand that they are also afraid of me- and that it's really a bad situation for both of us.

People can pretend all they want that all the young black guy has to do is "cooperate" but that's a load of crap- he's in danger because he's a young black guy. There have been too many instances of bad shootings/ bad beatings, and as a young black guy that has to be in the back of his mind. And the cop? He's in danger because he's a cop, so he has to expect the worst in every encounter. I feel for both of them, and I wouldn't want to be either.

 

[skydivr]

We'd all like for there to be an easy answer. Unfortunately, there isn't one.

I'm an old, white Navy vet. I'm not the least bit afraid of the police and they aren't afraid of me- and most importantly, we both know that on sight.

But if I was a young black guy, I sure as hell would be afraid of them. And I would understand that they are also afraid of me- and that it's really a bad situation for both of us.

People can pretend all they want that all the young black guy has to do is "cooperate" but that's a load of crap- he's in danger because he's a young black guy. There have been too many instances of bad shootings/ bad beatings, and as a young black guy that has to be in the back of his mind. And the cop? He's in danger because he's a cop, so he has to expect the worst in every encounter. I feel for both of them, and I wouldn't want to be either.

I believe this to be correct. That's why its so important for EVERYONE to keep a calm head.

 

[fallenarch]

Did you all see the video of the Chicago Cop shooting? I don't know on this one. The suspect almost hits the cop as he goes by in his car so the cop shoots at him. It looks like he hits a cop car in front of him. Then he runs. I suppose you could say the cops could have made more of an effort to take him in alive but let's be real if you escalate a situation to this level all bets are off. Also doesn't a homicide just mean the person died from something other than natural causes, disease or suicide? Doesn't mean the person who killed him wasn't justified right?

 

[dadofthree]

..."In EVERY single large-profile case recently EXCEPT the one with the mental patient, the person who got shot RAN OR FOUGHT with the arresting officers, and EVERY ONE of them would be alive today and free to sue all they wanted over unfair treatment if they HAD NOT FOUGHT THE POLICE. PERIOD."

So, it's ok that they were shot, because they were resisting arrest?

Apparently so, since the DOJ and AG investigates certain ones that meet certain parameters and has only charged one out of something like 40. Resisting arrest is not a threat, a fair evaluation of each where there were no indictments involved a threat to the officers life.