Turbo Help?

[TheBull350]

Ok, I know that you have seen this one before.

 I sold my banshee and I'm looking for a turbo. I'm not a newbie to any of this, nor am I new to engine mods. I have raced shifter carts, four wheelers, owned numerous jet ski's and have worked on just about everything. Not that I am bragging, I just don't want you to think I am a prepie looking for cheap and easy speed.

 I have looked through many post and threads regarding turbo's. I would like a smooth driveable bike when I'm finished around 250hp. This is not to much to ask for considering what I have found on turbo manufacturers web sites. I know what to look for, but many of the sites don't really offer good dyno charts or a detailed description of items. Hahn turbo is the cheapest I have found, but I would need to purchase a boost guage and would also like a variable waste gate. Velocity is another good choice also. I would definatley like the option of a variable waste gate to "turn the monster down" when I have my girlfriend on the back. Most of these only offer a 4lb or 6lb spring. Can this be changed while underway? Or do I need to do it in my garage with tools? Does this need to be done at all? If I get a turbo What factors determine when it spools? I have rulled out nitrous due to the fact of the bottle, and reliablility. I feel that a turbo if it's tuned correctly will produce more useable power. I know that everyone says to read everything I can before I make a purchase, well I think I have read just about everything I can.

 With the Hahn being the cheapest is it still good? I see that people say the fit is somewhat not up to par, but what doesn't fit good? Well this kit make me happy?

It appears that Velocity racing includes quite a bit more stuff in there stage one kit. But I couldn't find a dyno chart on the stage one. Also there stage one kit includes a base plate and Hahn does not, Why?

 What are some other key features I should look at? Is a boost guage adequate or is that just the beginning? Is there other guages I should get? What do I need to do about programming? PAIR valves? There isn't anything listed about these. I know they need to be removed but none of the web sites say anything about them.

 Any advice would help. Anyone inparticular I should contact from Totall Kaos, or anywhere that would help me make a decision? Is Velocity really worth $2000 more than the Hahn?


 Please feel free to give me any advice, and feel free to send me an e-mail to hdraper@stny.rr.com

Thanks for any help,
Marcus

 

[Doc_Busa]

The Hahn kit can be a great choice for a normal street kit. If you got the $$$ get the velocity. No matter which kit you buy, you better have a good tuner WITH TURBO EXPERIENCE, or you will be replacing pistons on a regular basis. Just as me or Ninja Eater.

Good luck. Try over at suzukihayabusa.org too, there are a lot of turbo builders on that site.

 

[TheBull350]

I see that you and ninja eater have had problems. What are some key facotrs that contributed to your breakage? Do any of these turbo builders supply a PCIIIr with any maps? I have read some stuff about ignition timing can melt the motor quickly if set wrong. Actually I think I read it should be retarded almost -4 or more. is this correct? Is this some of your problems?

Thanks

 

[skinman]

Hi, send an email to boyds@wightman .ca . The guys name is Richard. He specializes in turbo's for busa's and gsxr1000's. If you'd like I could pm you his phone #. This guy currently has a completely street busa making at or above 375hp. He owns the local suzuki dealership here. Or go to www.gixxer.com and look in the canada east forum you'll see him there as 2Wicked.
skinman

 

[MET]

I agree with Doc, about good tuner and learn as much as you can. I disagree with A Velocity kit. It is a very good kit though. Basic hahn kit is a veery good system for the 250hp range. It will remain very dependable unless you drive 190mph for a good distance. Thinks that are a must though are a good water mist system set to go on when the boost starts. Stay away from increasing or decreasing your boost if you want dependable. The bike will run like a regular Busa until boost starts going on anyway.

Again if money is not an issue go for the best Velocity or MC express with all the bells and whistles and a good tuner is going to cost you $8,000 or more. Keep us posted.

 

[TheBull350]

You all talk about a good "tooner", hypothetically wouldn't installing a turbo be the same as installing a exhaust? If someone out there has a Velocity Stage 1 with micron exhaust and gets it tuned properly couldn't that map then be duplicated for others with the same set up? Obviously all factors such as the waste gate spring and type of turbo would be acounted for.

Am I way off? Is this a question that holds any ground?

Marcus

 

[MET]

The easy part is the install. Lots of things to watch out for.

1. If the tuner is new at this with a Turbo and sets the bike lean in an spots you just cooked a motor.

2. If the timing s not set negative enough through the PC you cooked a motor.

3. If the bike is set on a Dyno to show you Dyno numbers with race gas, and then you go to the street with Pump gas you cooked a motor.

Don't gt me wrong there are lots of good people out there, but lots of inexperience people also.

The difference in a tuner coud mean 20hp in good reliable performance also.

 

[TheBull350]

so from what i read most of this can be pre-programmed to get me close to where i want to be. What's wrong with that? I will most likely do the install myself. And i have full faith in my tuner. He isn't the "I'm the Shiznit" type he would be the first to call Velocity for tech help. He's got an exhaust sniffer and the whole nine yards! But if we get in the ball park cause of velocity's help that would just make me feel a bit better.

 So truthfully, is the stage one worth it? how much hp can i expect? is velocity's dual stage boost controller mechanical? can it be changed while under way?

Should I just shoot for the stage two? any hp #'s on this?

I have someone very very interested in my banshee, so the turbo bus is getting closer and closer. once the banshee is gone the turbo will be ordered (probably back ordered with my luk)

hats off to ninja eater,

thanks for all the patience!!!  

Oh and by the way, I'm good friends with my tuner. He's done most of the machine work on my other toys, and his father owns the yamaha dealership here. I know that doesnt mean much but we talk almost once a week. I just know he would do all that he could to make sure I had a awsome machine that was dependable when we were done!!!

 

[MET]

The main thing is having someone you can trust, and looks like you have that. Next thing is having your tuner know is limitations. Looks like that is checked also. Good luck when you get to it. Any questions and I will always be around.

 

[TheBull350]

Thank you Ninja eater, I should be in touch sometime soon!

 

[TheBull350]

Ninja,

This is the reply I got from Velocity turbo. There site was a bit vague on some items. I thought I could run 11.5lbs of boost without water injection. So basically the only way of obtaining around 300hp is with water injection? What type do you have?

Should I go with the Stage II?

E-mail,

you can make about 250 hp on a stock motor with our stage 1 turbo kit. It costs 4795.00. you will need a power commander with that system. You will not need to pull the motor and tuning will be easy.

You can make 300hp with a stock motor with our stage 2 kit. You will need to pull the motor and lower the compression with the parts supplied. All parts needed are in the kit. You do not need a power commander, but you do need water injection. The cost is 5795.00 plus 650.00 for water injection.

We will be glad to work with you on the tuning aspect of it. the stage 1 will need a little tuning, but the stage 2 will not need any tuning. The computer that comes with it is already tuned. Barry

 

[MET]

6-8lbs with out water with a push onece and a while to 10lbs.

There are ways around the water higher octane etc, but if you are going to go through all of the effort for a turbo but in a little more. You can add mods to the system to increase the hp boost control, fuel rail, fuel pump regulator. You could get to around 300hp. Even at 250hp you can add a dump pipe for 270hp.

 

[TheBull350]

So what set up do you have?

 

[MET]

I have a Hahn that started out as a stage 1. Added a
TDC high performance fuel rail
Dyno at 280-300hp
Screamer Blow off valve
T-Rex fuel pump
New next generation cartech fuel regulator
Boost regulator control
18/40 gearing
36 inch Dump pipe
Putting larger injectors as we speak
Dyno @ ?? 300-320 depending on boost.

 

[cbriggs3]

I just bought a Velocity stage 1 turbo kit and had installed by Kevin at SuperKaos.com in August. The kit was originally priced at $4295 but has since raised to $4795. It made 280hp @ 8psi. My bike was tuned by Barry Henson and it runs like a dream. Just like stock until you flick your wrist on the throttle. They will send a map with your tubo kit, but you still need to throw it on a dyno and check the air/fuel. As Ninja Eater pointed out, you don't want to toast your motor because of a bad map. Probably the best thing to do in my opinion would be to install the turbo kit with the map provided by velocity, then dyno it, and send the dyno chart to Barry and have him check the A/F.

Chris

 

[TheBull350]

Cbriggs,

Thanks for the info, with you running 8lbs of boost did you go with the base spacer? Velocity's web site says that the stage 1 comes with i think 6lbs of boost? What did you do to get the 8lbs? I know it's just the waste gate spring, but what mods did you need? What type of exhaust? Will you list everything that's done to yours? Do you have water injection? Dual stage boost controller?

Thanks again,

Marcus

 

[cbriggs3]

Cbriggs,

Thanks for the info, with you running 8lbs of boost did you go with the base spacer? Velocity's web site says that the stage 1 comes with i think 6lbs of boost? What did you do to get the 8lbs? I know it's just the waste gate spring, but what mods did you need? What type of exhaust? Will you list everything that's done to yours? Do you have water injection? Dual stage boost controller?

Thanks again,

Marcus

I do not run a base spacer or water injection or boost controller. The only thing that was done different was 1 gallon of VP C16 was added to run it at 8psi. The stage 1 kit comes with a 6psi spring in the wastegate. Most kits do, and you can adjust it from there. You never need to get a different size spring.

My bike is a 2002. I run the dump pipe, I have a 6" over arm, and a bunch of other goodies. Check it out at http://home.cfl.rr.com/suzukihayabusa/

 

[speedraider]

velocity

 

[TheBull350]

AWSOME SITE Cbriggs!!!!!

THANK YOU FOR THE HELP~!!!!

Marcus

 

[MET]

I see that you and ninja eater have had problems. What are some key facotrs that contributed to your breakage? Do any of these turbo builders supply a PCIIIr with any maps? I have read some stuff about ignition timing can melt the motor quickly if set wrong. Actually I think I read it should be retarded almost -4 or more. is this correct? Is this some of your problems?

Thanks

Key factor was inexperience years back. Holding a motor at 198 mph on turbo boost for a long time.

Not knowing just how much neg timing should be put in a map, so when the map is complete you know what you are looking at.

making sure that you have all the proper gauges to minitor your motor.

Not going to the best tuners around in the begining.

These are all things that I do know and have Water gauges larger injectors larger more volume fuel pump and much more.