super rich spot from 3000-5000rpm?

[turbojonn]

I posted this in the turbo sectin too but it might not even be related to the turbochrging system? I'm hoping somebody out their might have encountered this and know how to fix it.
I took my bike to have it mapped, as I thought it was lean from 3-5000 rpm. Turns out it was SUPER rich, but only at that 3-5k spot. They plugged my bike into the mapping do-dad to map that rich spot. It showed no previous input (all values were 0). He put all kinds of values in and it didn't do anthing to chang the rich condition. Then hed switched out pc2's and tried again..no change. Then he unplugged the pc2 from the bike..no change. He switched out a vacuum check valve (?)...nothing.
He's calling Mr. Turbo on Monday to get more ideas. I don't know all that he checked but he's the best I know of in town and he spent a good 2.5 hours checking and swapping out components.
When I got back on it to ride it home it was almost unrideable. When the throttle is just barly open and the rpms are between 3 and 5k it bucks bad. After that it's fine. The dyno showed that that air/fuel was just fine from 5k up and 3k down?!
When I got home I changed the plugs and that did not a thing. I even used foul language and threatened the bike.
Maybe it's the throttle position sensor? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks---JT

 

[ks-waterbug]

This is exactly the condition my bike is experiencing.... We tried everything from flashing the stock ECU to switching them out. Changed every sensor on the bike, nothing, nota, napa! I'm running a PCIIIUSB, we even swapped that to no avail... It was suggested this could have something to do with my wire harness. I'll keep you posted, please do the same if you come up with anything...

 

[shenoyp]

I posted this in the turbo sectin too but it might not even be related to the turbochrging system? I'm hoping somebody out their might have encountered this and know how to fix it.
I took my bike to have it mapped, as I thought it was lean from 3-5000 rpm. Turns out it was SUPER rich, but only at that 3-5k spot. They plugged my bike into the mapping do-dad to map that rich spot. It showed no previous input (all values were 0). He put all kinds of values in and it didn't do anthing to chang the rich condition. Then hed switched out pc2's and tried again..no change. Then he unplugged the pc2 from the bike..no change. He switched out a vacuum check valve (?)...nothing.
He's calling Mr. Turbo on Monday to get more ideas. I don't know all that he checked but he's the best I know of in town and he spent a good 2.5 hours checking and swapping out components.
When I got back on it to ride it home it was almost unrideable. When the throttle is just barly open and the rpms are between 3 and 5k it bucks bad. After that it's fine. The dyno showed that that air/fuel was just fine from 5k up and 3k down?!
When I got home I changed the plugs and that did not a thing. I even used foul language and threatened the bike.
Maybe it's the throttle position sensor? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks---JT

...why dont you try replacing the stock ECU!! In all probabality that might be the problem mate

 

[gixxer2k1000]

From what I have been told the make these bikes from the factory to run rich between the 3-5 range because that is the main "cruising"range,have you ever looked at the tables of a power commander? if you open one up it is real rich in that area.

Tom

 

[turbojonn]

Thanks for the reply. I'll let you know for sure. Bad harness would make sence. The map doesn't seem to get from the power commander to the bike. I'll have more info. after Monday. Might be vacuum leak in addition? It would suck if there were two problems going on at the same time.
I earched all the related strings here last night and found these possible issues; fuel residue in the combustion chamber preventing the valves from closing (doubtful), Fuel filter clogging (bike screams at higher rpm's), throttle bodies in need of synching, Pair valves should be blocked off (Idon't know if my bike still has those?), may have split vacuum line between the throttle bodies and intake air pressure sensor.
Most of the strings ended with "call Johnny Cheese", and followed with "I called Johnny Cheese and now the bike works great!" I'll try more troubleshooting first and try to narrow it down before I call him. Something tells me I'll be buying a map from him soon.
My other bike is an old kawi 750 turbo. Alot of the same issues with fuel injection problems on their website also. There was a guy like Johnny Cheese there too. He'd seem to know exactly what was needed to fix the the problem.
For now I'll check the vacuum lines for spits/leaks torule that out. Thanks again for the reply---JT

 

[turbojonn]

Looks like it may be the throttle position sensor. Either that of the ecu. I'll find out more on Sat. when I put it back on the dyno. and switch out the TPS. I don't have a spare ecu to use but George has a spare TPS.
You might get a kick out of this. When I dorve it home from the shop last weekend it drained more than half a tank in ten miles. Yeah..it's a little rich! I'm pretty sure it thinks it's at full throttle when it's at about a quarter throttle. We'll see.--JT

 

[loboboy]

you might just try resetting the TPS sensor, it may be out of adjustment. Look in the manual and it tells you how to do it.

 

[turbojonn]

No change still?! Changed out the tps, fuel rail, throttle bodies. Cleaned out the internal tank filter. When the tps is adjusted you can move where the rich spot is, but it is still there. All local shops are stumped. I'm into it for 9 hours of shop time and it's worse for the experience. Next I'll try switching out the ecu to a know working unit. I hear there is a cam sensor, maybe that's the problem? After that I'll try a wiring harness swap. After that I'll get a shotgun and shoot the damn thing.
It's still fun to ride. The thing is that when your in corners and it gets all herky jerky it is NOT fun. Straights..fun, corners...bad.
Any ideas on how to fix or troubleshoot greatly appreciated. Even if they're crazy off the wall ideas I'd love to hear them. I'm stumped. Thanks--JT

 

[Busa_05]

From what I have been told the make these bikes from the factory to run rich between the 3-5 range because that is the main "cruising"range,have you ever looked at the tables of a power commander? if you open one up it is real rich in that area.

Tom

That sounds logical. My knowledge on fuel injection is limited as I have always been around carbs, but that sounds logical...

 

[turbojonn]

I replaced the ecu..no change. I was advised to check out the turbo components one at a time. I'll do this next. I found one wire between the power commander and the ecu that was down to two strands, so I resoldered it. I also found three exposed wires in the main harness. None of this changed anything but I feel better knowing that the connections are good now. I'm going to unwrap the wiring harness and check out all the wires. You'd think I'd get a code flashing if something were shorting but I'm not so I'm throwing logic to the wind. I'm might try an exorcism next.
I know this is going to be a simple problem, it's just finding it that is the pain. Does anybody know if there is more than one filter screen in the bike. I cleaned the inner tank filter but I had heard there are two fliters?
Although my mechanic already did this I reprogrammed the pc2 myself to see if maybe it was an inconsistent problem. I changed all three ranges between full lean and full rich and got no change. Maybe it's two problems at once. A bad pc2 and a rich setting in the ecu. Suzuki saind they can set the ecu with a tool. I've seen that thread on this site but I couldn't make out where the paper clip bridge goes? I'll just let them check it out. I'd probably start a fire if I tried it. Thank again to all those that have offerred suggestions. Your help has enabled me to narrow down the problem. I wouldn't have known where to start without the help. Thanks again--Jonn.
Well, that's it for my weekly installment of 'AS The Bike Runs'. Tune in next week for more exiting action!