looking for Gen 1 ('05) advice

[thedeejscheme]

Hi all!

Just registered here so I can look for some advice. Currently, I'm talking with someone about trading my current motorcycle ('05 Buell XB12s) for an '05 Hayabusa. After doing research, it seems the main thing to worry about is the 2nd gear issue that is more common in that generation. He does have paperwork saying that the transmission did get "under cut" (of which I understand so far as the fix for the 2nd gear issue) and a few other things like replacing shift forks, a fork seal, etc. It also had "R&R Motor" which I believe is Remove and Replace, correct me if I'm wrong. And he also replaced the back tire less than 20 miles ago.

It's all listed on the papers, in order:

R&R Motor
Under Cut Transmission
Replace Shift Forks & Shift Shafts
Replace Bearings
4 Quarts Oil and Wix Filter (From my understanding, 3.5 is suggested from the factory but usually takes a bit more to be "full")
Install Front Tire *No Change*
Right Fork Seal

Dated 3-25-2022, the mileage it had when in the shop is not listed.

As for whether wanting a Gen 2 for more technology etc, I don't mind there being no ABS since I haven't had a bike with ABS and I'm just used to it. And for the brakes, I would definitely look at changing out/improve since that seems to be a weak point as well. He said also recently he changed out the fuel pump and something about a wire got messed up which caused the fuel gauge not to work, which I'm also fine with since it sounds like an easy fix and I'm currently used to no fuel gauge. He's also cleaned out the throttle bodies.

As far as I can tell, the only thing that makes me a bit nervous is that it has 38k miles on it (the body, at least). It does seem like it was maintained well and from what I can see searching about how much is too many miles, it looks like the engine is pretty reliable even with a bunch of miles as long as maintained properly. Even if the engine was "removed and replaced" like I'm pretty sure R&R means, I just want to make sure there is nothing I'm missing on asking or to look for.

The guy seems pretty straightforward and honest. Given that he is around 200 miles from me and said he can trailer it over where we don't have to meet in between, I feel that he is being genuine.

Just want some more experienced eyes/knowledge on their opinion of this, and if they would "buy/trade" for this.

Appreciate any help/insight!

 

[thedeejscheme]

Oh, one thing I just thought of. USA Gen 1 Busas don't have catalytic converters right? I believe I have seen it other places, but then some say there are and then people are correcting others so I just want to make sure because of inspections, etc. It has a full voodoo exhaust so I just want to make sure if I'd have to consider trying to find one with a cat or not.

 

[Berlin Germany]

hmmm

what does R&R motor exactely mean ?
technically?
pistons bigger (big bored) , head "done" , ..

this can ! be things that can ! reduce the reliability of the engine (of every engine)

a standard haya-enginge´s reliability is nearly endless
pre-conditions :
- oil change every 6.000 km or a bit earlier
- always !!! riding the oil warm to 80-90°C before turning full throttle
- always !!! riding the oil warm to 80-90°C before high rpms over 4000 / min
- using only the highest octane number to prevent combustion knocking (we have 102 octane available here in germany and I use that only even for my un-stroked ´n standard gen1)

somewhere here, some 1 or 2 years ago i coincidentally found an odo-pic of a gen2 with 286 000 miles. (i suppose without a QS)

to me , that! is the argument to trust a good maintained / ridden gen1 even way over 100000 km.

so what the heck are u fearing of ?

the gen2-engine is 99,5% indentical to gen1 - material, measures etc.
(for instance : the gen2 cyl.-block fits 100% to the gen1´s engine and its pistons - did that swap myself 1 year ago - engine runs perfect)

a pre-owned / pre-used thing always can fail after a while - what ever it is.
even the space shuttles each were used some times til they then partely failed and exploded.

 

[Kiwi Rider]

Here in NZ "R&R motor" means (from a workshop point of view) "Remove and REFIT engine to bike/car", part of the labour element of the job performed on the engine, that's it, simply that.
As @Berlin Germany said, the engines are extremely under stressed and bulletproof so you need not fear buying a troubled bike.
My 1999 Gen 1 now has 149,000kms on the engine and chassis, and the engine has never been a problem, gearbox is original and has never had a problem either.
You will absolutely love the engine's bountiful torque and power, and the chassis is solid and steers well.
The brakes are a bit under powered for the weight and the speed these bikes are capable of, but if you ride sensibly, no problemo. . .
if your a looney tune, there are lots of brake upgrade options to choose from.
So changing from a Buell to a Busa, no-brainer!

 

[Berlin Germany]

@Kiwi Rider

hell - at 38000 mi already R&R´d ?

what the heck did the the pre-owner did to that busa?

at that milage a busa is just well "ridden in" - as we call it here

for instance :
a timing chain , only perhaps , needs a change at 100 000 km or a bit over - as mentioned - possibly !
but not absolutely / urgent necessary - some of them last way longer.

 

[Berlin Germany]

@Kiwi Rider

theme under powered brakes

I say NO !

do a deep cleaning of the tokico calipers every 30-35000 km and the under powered feeling will be gone.

and who ever wants to increase the brake power he should install the radial master eg. from ducati 749/999

their levers are shaped much more favorably than the tangential pumps that are installed ex works

i did a rough calculation (with excel) - a radial brake pump (e.g. the ducati 749/999) with a 17 piston diameter and 19 lever distance (named 17-19) brings a good 30% more power into the braking system
what does mean , that the driver needs 30% less manual force to achieve the normal/usual braking effect.

and this - attention - with purely organic brake pads from EBC in the original tokico - 6-piston-calipers and the standard brake discs of the gen1.

AND : my retrofitted abs (on my '00 gen1) easily comes within its control range with these components.

For me, an expensive conversion to any other calipers would definitely be a waste of money.
(in addition, the organic ebc pads have the cheapest prices)

AND : the half/full sinter brake pads literally eat the standard discs, means, the discs will be under their min TH after around 20-25000 km
the organic don't do so - my own discs stand (today) at over 54000 km above min TH - partly "beaten" hard at the round course / race track by me.

__________________________________________________________

with a radial brake master a brake is way much more sensitive and therefore way easier to dose !!!!

 

[Bumblebee]

@Kiwi Rider

theme under powered brakes

I say NO !

do a deep cleaning of the tokico calipers every 30-35000 km and the under powered feeling will be gone.

and who ever wants to increase the brake power he should install the radial master eg. from ducati 749/999

their levers are shaped much more favorably than the tangential pumps that are installed ex works

i did a rough calculation (with excel) - a radial brake pump (e.g. the ducati 749/999) with a 17 piston diameter and 19 lever distance (named 17-19) brings a good 30% more power into the braking system
what does mean , that the driver needs 30% less manual force to achieve the normal/usual braking effect.

and this - attention - with purely organic brake pads from EBC in the original tokico - 6-piston-calipers and the standard brake discs of the gen1.

AND : my retrofitted abs (on my '00 gen1) easily comes within its control range with these components.

For me, an expensive conversion to any other calipers would definitely be a waste of money.
(in addition, the organic ebc pads have the cheapest prices)

AND : the half/full sinter brake pads literally eat the standard discs, means, the discs will be under their min TH after around 20-25000 km
the organic don't do so - my own discs stand (today) at over 54000 km above min TH - partly "beaten" hard at the round course / race track by me.

__________________________________________________________

with a radial brake master a brake is way much more sensitive and therefore way easier to dose !!!!

Frank,

I'm certain you follow most threads around here and you will see countless threads on brake upgrades and I've read many cycle journalists reports on the braking system to be sub-par for a top tier bike as the Hayabusa....

My bike came to me with a complete brake upgrade and I've not ridden a stock bike for comparison but I will tell you the upgraded brakes on my bike are beyond stellar...

Brake upgrades fall under the same argumented threads as all the others (chains, sprockets, tires, batteries, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.......).

 

[Berlin Germany]

@Bumblebee

for sure - in techniques and material you can find always some better stuff.
it´s like my grandma said : the better is the good´s enemy.

but what i´m writing about is the correct maintenance
i prefer
BEFORE spending hundreds or thousands of bucks for some new parts.

that (economic) way can save lots of money what should be THE argument -
what my base is , is the never ending maintenance that every bike needs and that shouldn´t reach the costs of a space shuttle or so. (lil joke)

show and shine is not mine - i prefer a 100% top technique
a bit like at a rat-bike - f u ck for the view but love the tech.
________________________________________________________________________________________

and the comparison of old not cleaned tokicos with deep cleaned tokicos is so horrendous,
you wouldn´t believe that you got back your own bike with its old calipers.

THAT's what I want to point out - don't just buy something new, but get the best out of what you have.

deep in my "soul" i'm a thrifty (sometimes up to stingy) person who doesn't always try to repair something immediately at high costs.

 

[sixpack577]

If the price is right, it's worth buying, Especially if the transmission is already fixed...which according to the info, is why the engine came out, as we know it has to.
It has receipts, and what is said to be an honest seller, so if it doesn't knock or smoke, and it shifts smoothly and accelerates hard, that would be the bike I'm looking for.
I don't have to be concerned about fixing 2nd gear, as it is not uncommon, and it is a time consuming job to repair, and even doing my own work, gaskets and fluids are a couple hundred dollars, as well as several hundred in machine shop fees to fix the angle on the gears.
So receipts from somewhere reputable having the transmission undercut would be a plus to me if I was buying a gen1.
Sometimes working behind others can save you alot of money...alot of times it doesn't, lol, but usually, with a good test ride, visual inspection, and talk with the owner, you can get a good idea of how well a machine was maintained.
What is the asking price?
And how does it's price compare to other Busas in your market area?

 

[thedeejscheme]

If the price is right, it's worth buying, Especially if the transmission is already fixed...which according to the info, is why the engine came out, as we know it has to.
It has receipts, and what is said to be an honest seller, so if it doesn't knock or smoke, and it shifts smoothly and accelerates hard, that would be the bike I'm looking for.
I don't have to be concerned about fixing 2nd gear, as it is not uncommon, and it is a time consuming job to repair, and even doing my own work, gaskets and fluids are a couple hundred dollars, as well as several hundred in machine shop fees to fix the angle on the gears.
So receipts from somewhere reputable having the transmission undercut would be a plus to me if I was buying a gen1.
Sometimes working behind others can save you alot of money...alot of times it doesn't, lol, but usually, with a good test ride, visual inspection, and talk with the owner, you can get a good idea of how well a machine was maintained.
What is the asking price?
And how does it's price compare to other Busas in your market area?

The more I read about it the more comfortable I am with it. It would be a straight trade for my current motorcycle. He used to have a Buell and regrets ever selling his so he was either gonna sell it and buy it from me or just trade. And when I look locally the miles/etc are pretty similar to ones listed in my area.

 

[thedeejscheme]

The only other thing I was worrying about is if it had catalytic converters but doesn't look like it does. And from searching, the gen 1s didn't have cats in the USA it seems. My state just started being more problematic with inspection for this season and I'm mostly just wanting to get it tagged right away ideally . But I don't mind having to work on it a little. I already know I'll have to change the tag holder because it has a sideways one and my state doesn't like that

 

[sixpack577]

The more I read about it the more comfortable I am with it. It would be a straight trade for my current motorcycle. He used to have a Buell and regrets ever selling his so he was either gonna sell it and buy it from me or just trade. And when I look locally the miles/etc are pretty similar to ones listed in my area.

I'de trade for it then

 

[Bumblebee]

@Bumblebee

for sure - in techniques and material you can find always some better stuff.
it´s like my grandma said : the better is the good´s enemy.

but what i´m writing about is the correct maintenance
i prefer
BEFORE spending hundreds or thousands of bucks for some new parts.

that (economic) way can save lots of money what should be THE argument -
what my base is , is the never ending maintenance that every bike needs and that shouldn´t reach the costs of a space shuttle or so. (lil joke)

show and shine is not mine - i prefer a 100% top technique
a bit like at a rat-bike - f u ck for the view but love the tech.
________________________________________________________________________________________

and the comparison of old not cleaned tokicos with deep cleaned tokicos is so horrendous,
you wouldn´t believe that you got back your own bike with its old calipers.

THAT's what I want to point out - don't just buy something new, but get the best out of what you have.

deep in my "soul" i'm a thrifty (sometimes up to stingy) person who doesn't always try to repair something immediately at high costs.

I suppose the same could be said about any mod we do on our bikes...stock pipes although heavy are efficient, stock air filters and the list goes on and on and on.....

Improving or upgrading brakes is just another mod....

We do love to spend money and time on our bikes as you know.....

 

[Dnyce]

Remove and reinstall. It’s a labor charge. U gotta remove the engine, split the cases, and then reinstall it to do the transmission lol cmon y’all



To og poster, 40k miles is nothing, a maintained bike will last 100,000 miles easy. Based on what u trading it for, I’d take it. No catalytic converter to worry about.