Ceramic Wheel Bearing Comparison to Steel...

[GNBRETT]

so reduced friction on wheels, trans, crank, bearings, cylinder walls etc.... is all BS and equates to no NP gain for anyone?

You are not reading my posts, as you keep asking the same questions which I answered and I already explained why the wheel keeps spinning.

From a drag racing perspective, where several more times the power comes out of a motor compared to its original design, there is a reliability advantage. The nitrided balls are extremely hard and we do not have two similar metal surfaces separated by a thin protective oil film which may fail under extreme forces and pressure. If the oil film fails on a nitrided ball bearing, the hardened steel cup offers tremendous resistance to gouging or wear, even to the extent where the nitrided (ceramic) balls may smooth out damaged areas. So, if you are pushing 600hp on a Busa motor, that is probably a smart thing to do. The hp gains is BS. Or as you said the saved hp (same thing) due to drag is BS. It is negligible.

 

[FlatlandBusa]

I'm with jelly on this one. If steel bearings were really using so much horsepower to turn we would see problems with wheel bearings overheating. After all 1 horsepower is equal to 746 watts. I don't know about you all, but I have never had the hub area of my wheels get hot even after extended runs at 80MPH+ on 90°+ days. The tires get warm, but never the wheel hubs,, hmmm,, maybe we could save some power with steel or ceramic tires...

The only way that I see to accurately measure the drag caused by steel and ceramic bearings would be to ride 2 identical bikes side by side (other than the wheel bearings) until the bearing temps stabilized. Trying to measure such a small percentage of change on a dyno would be like doing trim work in your house with a sledge hammer.

 

[fallenarch]

Because when you look at small power increases on a dyno, such as 3hp on a 180 hp bike, there are too many other variables that will affect the reading. This will make it impossible to accurately see the difference without a tremendous amount of technical preparation.

Examples:

Do dyno run one and the the rear tire heats up. Do dyno run two, there is now more air pressure due to higher temperature, the rolling resistance will be less and you will pull an extra few ponies.

Barometric pressure is not the same day to day, so if you do it a month later, or the next day, you have to use a math correction factor. This is never very accurate.

Then there is the calibration of the dyno to 3/180 = 1.7% accuracy or better that is needed.

There are other factors also.

What the OP misses is that everything runs on an oil film, or otherwise it self destructs in a matter of minutes. The friction is mainly determined by the viscosity and film strength, or lubricity of the oil. With ceramic wheel bearing the difference is the fact that they are not lubricated with grease, which is why the video shows the wheel spinning much longer. Also, they design the seals to rub as little as possible.

Cool tire to same temp, set psi each time. Do both dyno runs in same day, same dyno. Close enough for government work.

 

[jellyrug]

Cool tire to same temp, set psi each time. Do both dyno runs in same day, same dyno. Close enough for government work.

Have you ever done statistical process control, to look at how same results completely under control, vary from an upper limit to a lower limit in a range? Or, how they show the process is out of control?

I just had one of my new Engineers, fresh from college fit a pressure gauge on blower, with a maximum range of 100psig, trying to measure 2.5psig. Lord knows what they teach at school nowadays, but it comes to the same principle of trying to accurately measure 3hp with a maximum range of 200 hp.

 

[jellyrug]

I'm with jelly on this one. If steel bearings were really using so much horsepower to turn we would see problems with wheel bearings overheating. After all 1 horsepower is equal to 746 watts. I don't know about you all, but I have never had the hub area of my wheels get hot even after extended runs at 80MPH+ on 90°+ days. The tires get warm, but never the wheel hubs,, hmmm,, maybe we could save some power with steel or ceramic tires...

The only way that I see to accurately measure the drag caused by steel and ceramic bearings would be to ride 2 identical bikes side by side (other than the wheel bearings) until the bearing temps stabilized. Trying to measure such a small percentage of change on a dyno would be like doing trim work in your house with a sledge hammer.

That is a good analysis. Apply 1kw of heat (friction) to a wheel bearing for 30 minutes and you won't be able to touch it by hand. Actually 1kw in a water heater is adequate for a hot hand washing station.

Some folks should stick to slapping hand cuffs on the bad guys and leave Engineering to the Engineers.

 

[jellyrug]

so reduced friction on wheels, trans, crank, bearings, cylinder walls etc.... is all BS and equates to no NP gain for anyone?

I never said no power gain. I said it is absolutely negligible.

 

[GNBRETT]

I never said no power gain. I said it is absolutely negligible.

oh ok so now were back peddling.... once again mr Engineer, wen you do (1) little thing yea its not gonna equate to much but wen you do (10) little things they absolutely do.

ill be sure to pass along to all the pro race teams at the track how some engineer stated reducing friction has virtually no effect of a bike performance. I mean reducing friction therefore heat cud never have an impact on an engine.... I mean heat doesn't rob engines of power and reduced friction on moving parts never frees up any HP either.....

you got lots of THEORIES but the FACT is their found on ever record setting bike in NHRA history so I guess so much for ur THEORIES......

 

[oldgixxer]

well, I sure won't be winning any gay bracket racing trophies....

LMFAO!

 

[GEARJAMMER]

u will win trophies chat board champ.

1-go to race
2-get beat
3-go home
4-brag on chat board

 

[FlatlandBusa]

oh ok so now were back peddling.... once again mr Engineer, wen you do (1) little thing yea its not gonna equate to much but wen you do (10) little things they absolutely do.

ill be sure to pass along to all the pro race teams at the track how some engineer stated reducing friction has virtually no effect of a bike performance. I mean reducing friction therefore heat cud never have an impact on an engine.... I mean heat doesn't rob engines of power and reduced friction on moving parts never frees up any HP either.....

you got lots of THEORIES but the FACT is their found on ever record setting bike in NHRA history so I guess so much for ur THEORIES......

He's not back pedaling, read what he wrote in previous posts.

Mayb his posts wud be easier 4 u 2 read if they wus rittn so u cud understands them.

 

[GEARJAMMER]

My buddys daily street bike-bracket bike would wax u easy +without clay bearings

 

[1busa]

My buddys daily street bike-bracket bike would wax u easy +without clay bearings

[URL=http://s1084.photobucket.com/user/francoh815/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_00000401_edit_zps715433f4.png.html]

[ATTACH=full]1567222[/ATTACH][/URL]

 

[GNBRETT]

.......

u will win trophies chat board champ.

1-go to race
2-get beat
3-go home
4-brag on chat board

 

[oldgixxer]

Lol sidewinder on a daily streetbike...you silly

 

[fallenarch]

What did I miss?

 

[GNBRETT]

see if you can understand this? the question is are Ceramic wheel bearings an advantage? no one asked or implied that they were a HUGE advantage. so the question is are they an advantage over steel? the proof is in the video. a back to back test with a stock wheel and one with a Ceramic bearing. it clearly spins longer. a lot longer.

the Ceramic bearing wheel clearly spun with less friction. less friction mean less hp to turn. end of story.

He's not back pedaling, read what he wrote in previous posts.

Mayb his posts wud be easier 4 u 2 read if they wus rittn so u cud understands them.

 

[FlatlandBusa]

see if you can understand this? the question is are Ceramic wheel bearings an advantage? no one asked or implied that they were a HUGE advantage. so the question is are they an advantage over steel? the proof is in the video. a back to back test with a stock wheel and one with a Ceramic bearing. it clearly spins longer. a lot longer.

the Ceramic bearing wheel clearly spun with less friction. less friction mean less hp to turn. end of story.

That video means nothing. What does free spinning a wheel have to do with actually loading the bearing with the bikes weight? Were the dust seals in place on the steel bearing wheel? Were both sets of bearings properly installed? Were they both run in the same amount of time? Was the starting RPM the same for both wheels? How much editing was done to the video? Far to many unanswered questions to try and make that video definitive proof.

I'll state it again that if steel wheel bearings were such a drag that we would see heat issues with them when run at speed, which we don't.

I have seen far to many aftermarket parts that are sold simply on the basis that they are better because... Ceramic bearings are in this group for me.

I'm glad that there are people that have plenty of money to spend, it helps keep the economy rolling along.

 

[Tony Nitrous]

I looked into this a while back.
No point for me as I have a hundred better things to do first.
This is an old (03 I think?) post but has some interning info:

Quote:

"Anyone interseted or needing more info email me at worldbrg@aol.com or go to our website at World Wide Bearings

My Ceramic Bearings are usedin Larry McBrides Top Fuel bike, Larry has 2 full seasons on his Wheel Bearings and 1season on his motor and drive system Bearings. Hisbike has over 20 Ceramic Bearings in it.Kory Hogan has had them in his Funny Bike all season, Dan Vasilik has our Prostock Trans and Wheel Bearings in Promod's heaviest bike. Every NHRA Prostock Bike record over the last 4Years uses our Wheel and Trans Ceramic Bearings. They Hold up to the power that George and Byron produce even in the V-Rod. Rickey Gadson used our Trans and Wheel Bearings this year in SBS, Chip Hunter and Eddie have run them foryears , Nigel Patrick and Skip's Hot Rod Crusiers all have them. Del and Tommy Miceli have them in Formula Super Bike, They are in all the bikes Ryan Schnitz has ridden from 600 to the Muzzy Prostock bike. Matt Smith has them in his Outlaw bike and Prostock Bike,and all the fast no bar $ bikes.

Last year Greg Anderson used our Wheel , Trans and Pinion Ceramic Bearings in his Prostock car as well as the fast 1/2 of the Class. Harold Martin has used our Ceramic Wheel ,Pinion and Trans Bearings in his Promod Car, Rick Jones has used them in his Mountain Motor Prostock Car. We have done them for topNascar and Indy car teams, Bonneville bikes , Go-Karts, Snowmobiles, we supply Crank Bearings to one of the big 4's Motocross teams. Rich Olivers 250cc Yamaha Road Race bike used our Wheel Bearings this season. We are always looking for new applications.
CeramicBearings offer 40% less Friction, 60% less Rotating Weight and last 3 to 5 times longer thanSteel bearings. Thanks for reading thiseveryone , dave"


EDIT:
Edit to add, although I do believe it, the above info did come from someone who was selling them.

 

[dadofthree]

The competitors are looking for any improvement regardless of how small

 

[Busashot]

I did ceramics everywhere I could.........I had to as I ran out of things to do to my bike.

And yes the bike is easier to move around in the driveway. Had them in a ZX12 as well and noticed the same thing. One last thing, they felt better when in the corners as well as I had to use more brake than normal when decelerating the bike.

Does it help? Probably more so once you have the bike over 180mph sustained.

Friction is kiiller for performance. Gee I wonder why people use synthetic oils, non-oring chains, loose piston ring gaps, etc. Friction no matter how you want to measure it, less friction provides better performance.