Physics question w/ video

[kml]

Can anybody explain this clearly or maybe even draw a vector diagram?

Sure has me baffled...

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cheers
ken

 

[Wag]

I used to know the physics on that but I'm not good enough to explain it any more.

--Wag--

 

[Robot]

Sorry our security is blocking your vid, let me know what is going on.

Vector by definition has magnitude and direction (an arrow has velocity and direction). Scaler only has magnetude(example temperature).

Vector diagram? do you mean resultant vector?

Physics is kinda my thing, try to specify the question. Ill be more than happy to help

 

[kml]

Sorry our security is blocking your vid, let me know what is going on.

Vector by definition has magnitude and direction (an arrow has velocity and direction). Scaler only has magnetude(example tempurature).

Vecor diagram? do you mean resultant vector?

Physics is kinda my thing, try to specify the question. Ill be more than happy to help

It's a video of a wheel balance system, where an unbalanced wheel mounted on an axle that's suspended, becomes balanced because balls that are free to move in a circular track that is mounted on the circumference of the wheel, move opposite to the weight that's causing the imbalance and cause the assembly to balance while it's rotating.

sure hope that made sence...

cheers
ken

 

[Robot]

Sorry our security is blocking your vid, let me know what is going on.

Vector by definition has magnitude and direction (an arrow has velocity and direction). Scaler only has magnetude(example tempurature).

Vecor diagram? do you mean resultant vector?

Physics is kinda my thing, try to specify the question. Ill be more than happy to help

It's a video of a wheel balance system, where an unbalanced wheel mounted on an axle that's suspended, becomes balanced because balls that are free to move in a circular track that is mounted on the circumference of the wheel, move opposite to the weight that's causing the imbalance and cause the assembly to balance while it's rotating.

sure hope that made sence...

cheers
ken

Sounds like you did a great job describing what is going on. Sounds like a "self balancing tire". Seems like "Vector" here is used to describe the forces at work. (In this case irregular forces(vectors) caused by the wheel being "unbalanced".

Force is often defined as mass X acceleration. (Newtonian definition)
common sense would say centrifugal force is a vector or multiple vectors on this wheel. A footnote is that "Centrifugal force" may be real enough but it does NOT meet the Mass X Acceleration definition. "Typically" Centrifugal force is a constantly changing vector. The centrifugal force felt is the objects inertia(tendency to want to stay in direction of motion), being constantly changed by this rotational vector(circular direction of travel).

Sounds like these balls take up position opposite the imbalance, causing opposite direction vectors(pseudo forces) that end up cancelling each other out and making the wheel balance. Vectors(tire weights etc,) causing equal and directly opposite forces will cancel each other out.

This vector "balancing act" is pretty cool. You could keep adding weight/vectors to a tire and keep balancing it indefinitely...at least until moment of inertia became a real issue. Ice skater turns faster with arms tucked because mass is more centrally located, hence moment of inertia is less.

Sorry if overkill. Let me know if this helps or just muddied the waters

 

[Mr Bogus]

These things have been around since the 50's not sure why they never really caught on big... they used glycerin and lead shot or mercury in them...

 

[PDBusa]

Yes, I concur with Robot's analysis of the aforementioned question.

No, I'm not a physics major BUT I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

 

[Robot]

These things have been around since the 50's  not sure why they never really caught on big...  they used glycerin and lead shot or mercury in them...

Maybe the answer is: If the tire/wheel is constructed properly and balanced, it should stay that way. There is no need for this "self balancing" gimmick?

 

[kml]

Sorry our security is blocking your vid, let me know what is going on.

Vector by definition has magnitude and direction (an arrow has velocity and direction). Scaler only has magnetude(example tempurature).

Vecor diagram? do you mean resultant vector?

Physics is kinda my thing, try to specify the question. Ill be more than happy to help

It's a video of a wheel balance system, where an unbalanced wheel mounted on an axle that's suspended, becomes balanced because balls that are free to move in a circular track that is mounted on the circumference of the wheel, move opposite to the weight that's causing the imbalance and cause the assembly to balance while it's rotating.

sure hope that made sence...

cheers
ken

Sounds like you did a great job describing what is going on. Sounds like a "self balancing tire". Seems like "Vector" here is used to describe the forces at work. (In this case irregular forces(vectors) caused by the wheel being "unbalanced".

Force is often defined as mass X acceleration. (Newtonian definition)
common sense would say centrifugal force is a vector or multiple vectors on this wheel. A footnote is that "Centrifugal force" may be real enough but it does NOT meet the Mass X Acceleration definition. "Typically" Centrifugal force is a constantly changing vector. The centrifugal force felt is the objects inertia(tendency to want to stay in direction of motion), being constantly changed by this rotational vector(circular direction of travel).

Sounds like these balls take up position opposite the imbalance, causing opposite direction vectors(pseudo forces) that end up cancelling each other out and making the wheel balance. Vectors(tire weights etc,) causing equal and directly opposite forces will cancel each other out.

This vector "balancing act" is pretty cool. You could keep adding weight/vectors to a tire and keep balancing it indefinitely...at least until moment of inertia became a real issue. Ice skater turns faster with arms tucked because mass is more centrally located, hence moment of inertia is less.

Sorry if overkill. Let me know if this helps or just muddied the waters

" these balls take up position opposite the imbalance"

Why?

cheers
ken

 

[Robot]

Sorry our security is blocking your vid, let me know what is going on.

Vector by definition has magnitude and direction (an arrow has velocity and direction). Scaler only has magnetude(example tempurature).

Vecor diagram? do you mean resultant vector?

Physics is kinda my thing, try to specify the question. Ill be more than happy to help

It's a video of a wheel balance system, where an unbalanced wheel mounted on an axle that's suspended, becomes balanced because balls that are free to move in a circular track that is mounted on the circumference of the wheel, move opposite to the weight that's causing the imbalance and cause the assembly to balance while it's rotating.

sure hope that made sence...

cheers
ken

Sounds like you did a great job describing what is going on. Sounds like a "self balancing tire". Seems like "Vector" here is used to describe the forces at work. (In this case irregular forces(vectors) caused by the wheel being "unbalanced".

Force is often defined as mass X acceleration. (Newtonian definition)
common sense would say centrifugal force is a vector or multiple vectors on this wheel. A footnote is that "Centrifugal force" may be real enough but it does NOT meet the Mass X Acceleration definition. "Typically" Centrifugal force is a constantly changing vector. The centrifugal force felt is the objects inertia(tendency to want to stay in direction of motion), being constantly changed by this rotational vector(circular direction of travel).

Sounds like these balls take up position opposite the imbalance, causing opposite direction vectors(pseudo forces) that end up cancelling each other out and making the wheel balance. Vectors(tire weights etc,) causing equal and directly opposite forces will cancel each other out.

This vector "balancing act" is pretty cool. You could keep adding weight/vectors to a tire and keep balancing it indefinitely...at least until moment of inertia became a real issue. Ice skater turns faster with arms tucked because mass is more centrally located, hence moment of inertia is less.

Sorry if overkill. Let me know if this helps or just muddied the waters

" these balls take up position opposite the imbalance"

Why?

cheers
ken

Because they are "fluid" (able to move), as a fluid would(water, etc.)

If we did a demo with water, a self leveling would occur, at a given speed inside the tire. This is true in theory, but practical application with fix a flat will yield different results in reality.(another story).

I believe if we made an unbalanced tire, water or any other fluid object would "tend" to level out the balance of the tire.

This balancing act occurs because the object is "lazy" nature says spend the least energy possible in this instance. Planets are round and somewhat balanced, because it is the lowest energy state. The tire/fluid objects are doing the same thing. They seek the lowest energy state. It takes more energy to move/rotate an asymmetrical/unbalanced object, than a balanced one.

Great Question

Thanks for dusting off my physics

 

[Mr Bogus]

These things have been around since the 50's not sure why they never really caught on big... they used glycerin and lead shot or mercury in them...

Maybe the answer is: If the tire/wheel is constructed properly and balanced, it should stay that way. There is no need for this "self balancing" gimmick?

Good reason but how many get regular rotate/balances done on their cars?


they also made one that goes in the trunk of your car.. it was alleged that it would help prevent "skids and slides" It had a spring centered weight mass that would shift much like the spring ballast in a building with inertial earthquake dampers...

Have no idea if they worked or not but they were around $300 20 years ago (sounded pretty stout for what felt like a box with cement and springs) Never opened one to check it out..

 

[Robot]

These things have been around since the 50's  not sure why they never really caught on big...  they used glycerin and lead shot or mercury in them...

Maybe the answer is: If the tire/wheel is constructed properly and balanced, it should stay that way. There is no need for this "self balancing" gimmick?

Good reason but how many get regular rotate/balances done on their cars?


they also made one that goes in the trunk of your car.. it was alleged that it would help prevent "skids and slides"   It had a spring centered weight mass that would shift much like the spring ballast in a building with inertial earthquake dampers...

Have no idea if they worked or not but they were around $300 20 years ago (sounded pretty stout for what felt like a box with cement and springs)  Never opened one to check it out..

Wow all sorts of stuff out there, I vote for the giant gyroscope in my trunk for stabilization,

 

[SD1300]

Yes, I concur with Robot's analysis of the aforementioned question.

No, I'm not a physics major BUT I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...  

 

[SnapAttack]

Vibrational resonance is the up and down vibration pattern created by a rotating tire and wheel that is out of balance, forcing the fluid (mercury) which is free-moving within the ring to positions along the ring, which exactly offset any light and heavy spots, thereby eliminating the vibration and creating equilibrium within the rotating mass. Once properly positioned, Centrifugal Force holds the fluid in that position unless a different vibrational resonance pattern develops from tire wear or from stones, mud or ice sticking to the tire or wheel, which instantly forces the fluid to its new equilibrium positions. In short, this technique, continually, instantly and dynamically self-adjusts to tire and wheel imbalance because nature must have equilibrium, and natural forces will act on the counter-balancing fluid to eliminate vibrational resonance and disequilibrium.

I might mention that none of the LEADING manufacturers of balance equipment use this technology.

 

[Wag]

I recall seeing a product made of ceramic beads which is supposed to auto balance your tires similarly.

Lemme pray.

"Oh, great Google God, show me The Way!"

Ah. Here we go. Innovative Balancing

--Wag--

 

[Ranger]

Here's your Vector victor....

 

[Mr Bogus]

http://www.balancemasters.com/hummers/index.html on of many companies

 

[WWJD]

so... in the end, what I learned is, you physics nerds are geeky and shunned just as much as us computer nerds, right? RIGHT? ?

 

[kml]

Here's your Vector victor....

That's impressive!

Would you be able to offer a laymans explanation of the forces involved?

thanks
ken

 

[Wag]

It LOOKS impressive, even if it doesn't make any sense to the rest of us.

--Wag--