church income controversy

[WWJD]

I just saw a link about some church that hard a large, multimillion dollar income last year. The government is starting an investigation. My question is:

why?

Now, I will be the first to admit that I never watch televangelists because the way they speak turns me off. They sound too over the top, too drama-queen, almost too phoney, but that is just me. Whether it is a life changing, soul saving life long purpose for them or just some entertaining acting that pulls them some bucks, makes no difference to me. I don't know them personally, or care about them. Simply because they are on TV does not make them important in MY life. TV is a vast wasteland of mentally bending, social norm distorting propaganda, so televangilism fits right in there.

The strange part about all that is: the televanglists are telling you something good. Sorry, but it's true. All their yammering is almost always based on Biblical teachings that, when applied to life appropriately, can be live changing and soul saving information. They usual mix in some profiteering racket like selling books or donating money for starving African children or something, but that is no different than the cleverly made advertisements to go to Wendy's and eat more greasy burgers, or run out and buy the latest Ford pickup truck. Same deal.

So... some preachers make some money. And the guberment doesn't see a dime in "taxes" from SOME of that income. Some. Keep in mind, there are many, MANY other expenses that go into a large church where bunches of money gets funneled back into the local community via other bills, paychecks etc etc etc ...... and NOBODY is holding a gun to anyone's head forcing the patrons supplying the money, to donate.

There are plenty of other factions out there making money. Paris Hilton. Come on. not only is she NOT providing ANY kind of message to help anybody, she's actually gone to convey messages that hurt people: Being beautiful is a lifestyle, Rich people can get away with anything, All women are stupid, and the list could go on and on and on. Famous sports players: making MILLIONS upon MILLIONS, snorting it, wrecking their cycles helmetless with it, raping fans, yeah THEY'VE got a WONDERFUL message! Maybe some of THAT should be investigated.

I'm not totally defending televangelists as much as hoping to point out society having a blinding hypocracy. I know, for the most part, to regular folk televangelists look like nothing more tha gold digging schisters, and I am sure some of them are.

BUT, they are seeding a message that is good. whether you admit it or not, it IS in there. A message of hope and love in a world where the non-stop message is selfishness and pain. The world's message leaves people washed up, empty and desiring something more from life. Maybe something a God can provide, since man's collection of money and stuff does not.

I guess in the end, where I'm going is, why is everyone so puzzled by religious people getting money? THEY live on this planet too and our planet is DESIGNED around money as a functional process. How could you expect religious folk to NOT operate around money, just liek everyone else? "But preachers should be non materialistic..." Yeah, ok? I consider myself deeply religious, but I own a Hayabusa - the world's fastest mostest bestest bike on the planet. Is that wrong because I wanted one because I thought it was cool and going fast is fun? Am I sending the wrong message beign religious AND owning something nice? Not at all. I send wrong messages plenty of other ways, but that is not one of them.

Religious people still ooze some kinda good philophy, even if they are week humans and can't keep up with it all the time. The rest are selling selfishness and eventual pain.

I'd rather put my money into SOMETHING good, than bad.

There's my opinions. What is yours?

 

[WWJD]

I think I missed my point completely and can sum it up in a line or two:

religious folk making money is no different than you and I making money.... I know MY job doesn't do anything to help my fellow man, does yours? I WISH my job was helping people, changing lives, giving hope to millions.

 

[BusaWhipped]

The difference is that they are tax exempt as a church. So the question then becomes are they really a church making millions a year or are they a business. If they are a business, then the income is taxable. Its not about the message, its all about the benjamins.

 

[WWJD]

that's how we the people voted our government to work with the church. that's how it is. should we change that? what is wrong with it?

BTW I am not affiliated with any church nor do I fully understand the inner financial workings. I'm just a guy

 

[BusaWhipped]

If they are a church, then it doesn't matter how much they make. If they are a business posing as a church to avoid taxes, then they need to pay up. I'm not judging them one way or the other. If they are a legitimate church, they should not have anything to fear from being investigated, as long as it is an audit and not a witch hunt.

 

[Mr Bogus]

I think I missed my point completely and can sum it up in a line or two:

religious folk making money is no different than you and I making money.... I know MY job doesn't do anything to help my fellow man, does yours? I WISH my job was helping people, changing lives, giving hope to millions.

Yes but often they make that money on the backs of the less fortunate with lower incomes and use the money to buy "worldly" goods...

Hypocrisy is not a good vehicle no mater what the message is IMO

God (if there is one) will sort it out in the end I hope...

 

[Devious]

This might upset some folks here, but...
I don't believe that God needs the money anyway...
Next time you have a hand full of cash try this...
Look up and tell God that your sending a bunch of cash his way, and then throw it all up into the air...
God will keep what he needs, and whatever falls back to the ground is yours...
Then take whatever part of it you can do without, and give it to a legitimate local charity...
Preferably a Childrens or Veterans Hospital...


David

 

[frisbee]

This might upset some folks here, but...
I don't believe that God needs the money anyway...
Next time you have a hand full of cash try this...
Look up and tell God that your sending a bunch of cash his way, and then throw it all up into the air...
God will keep what he needs, and whatever falls back to the ground is yours...
Then take whatever part of it you can do without, and give it to a legitimate local charity...
Preferably a Childrens or Veterans Hospital...


David

I think you are right on the money ! It depends on how much money they make that they are using to fund legitimate charities and helping others . If they are keeping more than they need then thats wrong. I ride with the Christian Motorcyclists Asociation and I believe that if you are nonprfit then you need to use donations properly . Most churchs have a monthly account so that you can see where the moneys going .

 

[Revlis]

This might upset some folks here, but...
I don't believe that God needs the money anyway...
Next time you have a hand full of cash try this...
Look up and tell God that your sending a bunch of cash his way, and then throw it all up into the air...
God will keep what he needs, and whatever falls back to the ground is yours...
Then take whatever part of it you can do without, and give it to a legitimate local charity...
Preferably a Childrens or Veterans Hospital...


David

Hell Yeah... I fling my Amex in the Air once or twice a week... Thus far haven't found a single cahrge on it I couldn't identify...

 

[ibified]

Nice. I tend to agree that if it is in fact a church, they should have nothing to worry about by being investigated unless they have something to hide.

I don't give money to a church. Any Church. Ever. The reason behind it are simple: A church will take my charitable contributions and disburse them to the charities they support, in the divisions that are of their choosing. And whether or not I support these charities is not a concern of theirs, they just give it. I'm not saying that's a BAD thing, necessarily, but I would perdsonally rather choose which charities my money goes to. I happen to support animal welfare charities, and I don't know of too many churches giving animals to those. Sometimes I wonder if they forget that the animals are also God's creatures, but I'll save that argument for another day.

 

[Big Wall]

It's a business. Churches need to be taxed. Give your money to UNICEF.

 

[DaCol.]

It's a business.  Churches need to be taxed.  Give your money to UNICEF.

OH Yeah, give your money to the UNITED NATIONS  

 , they'll really use it where it's needed  

. Awwwwwww, in THEIR  

bank accounts !

So, you guys feel they make it on the Backs of the Unfortunate ? Let's see, kinda like the State Lotterys, or College Football ticket sales ! Geezzzzzzz, when was the last time the Football Team gave money to anyone needing it as some of you say. I know of several Ministries who bring in Millions, and the spend it for VERY WORTHWHILE causes. Or do you think the TV time is FREE or the Food or Buildings they build are donated ? Having Worked FOR the UN, I know what they do, and I have SEEN with my own eyes what these Ministries do also. And as far as God doesn't need the Money, your right, but TV Networks, Stations, Airlines, Ocean Freighters, Trucks, Contractors and on and on do need to be Paid. In one pharse, IT AIN'T FREE out there  

 

[Wag]

No, it ain't free and I don't begrudge a minister the money he deserves in order to make a living. What I begrudge is a minister writing off the purchase of a $50,000 Rolex when a $400 Movado would do just fine.

Putting granite waterfalls in the courtyard and front lobby of the church office building.

Buying a huge limo.

Flying around the world on joyrides disguised as ministerially necessary trips.

I begrudge all of that.

Others have said it just right: If they are a business, they need to pay taxes. If not, they have nothing to worry about.

--Wag--

 

[WWJD]

Isn't it obvious it's a church? Guys preach about God, take up offering. Where's the business side in that? They have bills to pay and such, but it's still a church

Again, no one is FORCING lower incomes, less fortunate or ANYBODY to give. If anything, TV ads yelled at you every 7 minutes for hours a day is kinda like brainwashing torture, isn't it? Isn't that way more dangerous and FORCING a direct action than some robed guy standing behind a podeum?

I've NEVER seen God use money. I've seen man use money for God, for good, and for evil, but God doesn't TAKE money - the men running the church do to keep it going, put food on their family's table... and maybe buy a Hayabusa also.

Lottery: hahahhhaha that's a PERFECT example. How many homes have been ruined by people gambling in a "STATE" run casino like the lottery? Why did someone need to create 1-800-BETS-OFF? ahhahhahahaha Good perspective, DaCal. Well put.

Again, I'm no fan of most televangelists, but I'm LESS of a fan of the things we DON'T really pay attention too.... like all the stuff DaCal mentioned.

Come on, Rev... I was hoping for a little more ACTION in this thread!! Speak yer mind!

 

[Wag]

The lotteries don't pretend to be something other than what they are. You walk in, you know they're going to do their damned best to take your money away from you. ALL of your money if you let 'em. The few who walk out with their money intact or with a few extra bucks are just bait. Everyone knows you aren't going to go in there and find god!

Religion, well . . . . There are plenty which do a whole lotta good. We never hear about those. The fact that one of them is being investigated is not an indictment of all the others. By the same token, the fact that it's a church is by no means a defense against an investigation.

--Wag--

 

[Projekt]

The difference is that they are tax exempt as a church.  So the question then becomes are they really a church making millions a year or are they a business.  If they are a business, then the income is taxable.  Its not about the message, its all about the benjamins.

I concur...
Besides, these days in time of war the Treasury needs every spare cent it can get. They are getting aggressive about collecting back taxes. It all just happens to coincide with our administration's foreign spending habits, and the dwindling treasury balance sheets.

 

[VaBusa]

No, it ain't free and I don't begrudge a minister the money he deserves in order to make a living. What I begrudge is a minister writing off the purchase of a $50,000 Rolex when a $400 Movado would do just fine.

Putting granite waterfalls in the courtyard and front lobby of the church office building.

Buying a huge limo.

Flying around the world on joyrides disguised as ministerially necessary trips.

I begrudge all of that.

Others have said it just right: If they are a business, they need to pay taxes. If not, they have nothing to worry about.

--Wag--

I love this guy...

And what's wrong with a $20 Timex?! Movado...pffft...

 

[bigmac0331]

Lets just say that I work for a Financial Institution that has Church "Business" accounts...and we had a church that the pastors wife was the treasure, and when they make deposits to the church acct...they only deposit the checks made out to the church...and all the cash goes into their personal acct.  Now that isn't right and we have reported it to the FED...but has anything happened yet...no....so I fully agree that they should be taxed!!!  Just my

 

[Projekt]

I declare a new Ministry.

The Holy Church of Velocity and our Lord Hayabusa.

Tax that!

Sunday morning worship at the track and legal assistance to our brethren cited for exceeding the speed limit.

 

[WWJD]

I declare a new Ministry.

The Holy Church of Velocity and our Lord Hayabusa.

Tax that!

Sunday morning worship at the track and legal assistance to our brethren cited for exceeding the speed limit.

Hey, I'll donate toward our worship of this. I can find Bible verses where our God tells us to enjoy the spoils of life he provides. So, we'll meet at the track, have 15 minutes of worship, rules and regulations, pass the plate to cover some expenses, and write off 100% of our track day costs as we praise our God using our riding talents in his name on the track.

That IS a great church! Let's do it! Who's in? YEAH!

$50,000 rolexes.... yeah, FOR ME, that is not realistically responsible. However, if I was the CEO of a multi million dollar BUSINESS, and had a high salary already, would it be wrong? If a church pulls in tons of donations because of one man.... just ONE MAN who stands up front and says lots of nice things that people want to donate to, isn't HE earning the large church income pull and deserves SOMETHING for that? Again, no one is FORCING people to donate, and the church DOES put lots of money into other helpful things....

In the end, all that money usually corrupts people, businesses... and church's people, and they'll pay in the end, to the government and to God.