Military Recruiters...

[razorshark]

Some of you may know, I'm an Air Force recruiter...volunteered to do it, left Combat Camera, and moved closer to home and family, back to Texas. I've been doing this job for over 2 years and have been very successful. This is good because I get lots of recognition, but bad also because I am expected to produce at a higher level all the time...which means less time for family and everything else.

All the services recruiter based on bodies needed, this equates to a goal or quota each month, quarterly and yearly...and most times, its only for certain jobs or even demographics. This type of pressure makes some recruiters do things (not saying what), in order to make their goal or quota so their bosses leave them alone so they have more free time.

I can honestly say I have done what it takes to help the applicant. I don't cut corners, I do it smart and right. But...things are getting worse. Maybe its the war, the media, parents influence, etc...and I'm finding it hard just to find qualified applicant, its not as easy as some may think.

I have hit a wall, well kind of, or topped off and can't figure out what's up. I've noticed we have a high military presence here. So, for my current and former military brothers and sisters...I would like your opinions. Can you please tell me about your recruiter, the good and the bad? Was there something they could have done better? What would have made it easier for you to begin with, or made you more successful right from the get-go?

I have under two years to go, and yes I will not stay in recruiting...but I want to help out any many as possible before I depart. Any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks.

Sharky

 

[Don Hardcastle]

Sharky,
Are you saying that you are not as productive as you used to be?

Don

 

[shortcut]

i was in trouble with the law and kicked out of high school in 1965.
i joined the air force. the standards were much lower back in the day.
wound up being a crew chief on f4 phantoms. volunteered for vietnam.

 

[rubber2burn]

Sharky I did some time on the bag as well Bro and if you are doing what you say you are doing just stick by your guns Bro. When I was on the bag there were ups and downs Bro and that is all you are going through right now is just a low give it time and it will pick back up. Also just a bit of advice do not lie to applicants bro about any thing because the internet super highway will give them the truth. So with that said stay Strong bro it will get better and stay true to you integrity don't let the higher up make you do the wrong thing if you don't think it is right.

 

[fsusux]

My Army recruiter was not personally truthful with me. He was truthful (as far as I know) about everything relating to the MOS I chose (45D, Self-propelled Field Artillery turret mechanic). The part that pi$$ed me off personally was that I asked him if he had ever been stationed at Ft Sill, OK. I merely wanted to know what to expect. He told me that he had never been there and didn't relly know what it was like. I found out a year or so later that he had been there for Basic and Advanced training and ultimately stationed in a training brigade there. When I called him to the carpet about it he claimed never to have told me that he was never there.

 

[razorshark]

(USN05LE @ Jul. 24 2007,17:25) Sharky,
 Are you saying that you are not as productive as you used to be?

Don

Production is not the issue anymore...its quality versus quantity. I went back over the last few years to look at statistics...its seems today's youth are getting into more trouble, getting disqualified, and sometimes recruiter come up with ways to get them in anyway. I don't do that, but I see it happening all the time. I guess my problem is integrity...should one help someone bypass the rules to make a better future for themselves without knowing if that person would benefit the military? Especially if its the difference in making goal or not. The higher ups keep crunching the numbers and don't care about the little things unless someone gets caught. This has really been bothering me lately.

I hire mainly college students, very few high schoolers, unless they are really smart, fit and stay out of trouble. Of the 69 high schools I was in charge of last year, +/- 20% asvab pass rate, most DQd for weight or physical/mental probs, other for political beliefs, unsupportive parents or apathy, some for law violations/drug. Out of the 2000+ hopefulls, less than 1% met the criteria to join.

So what do you do? Quantity to fill the numbers, go home early to the wife and kids, and wonder what if this person screws up later and cost someone their life...or quality, work late everyday, weekends, have leadership counsel you, but sleep better at night knowing the right people are in.

Sorry to rant guys...but its really beginning to bother me...maybe I'm just getting burned out, only a little over a year to go. Don't get me wrong, I love the Air Force. but I think recruiting across the board is majorly flawed...um, hope I don't get in trouble for writing this..

 

[razorshark]

(rubber2burn @ Jul. 24 2007,18:20) Sharky I did some time on the bag as well Bro and if you are doing what you say you are doing just stick by your guns Bro.  When I was on the bag there were ups and downs Bro and that is all you are going through right now is just a low give it time and it will pick back up.   Also just a bit of advice do not lie to applicants bro about any thing because the internet super highway will give them the truth.  So with that said stay Strong bro it will get better and stay true to you integrity don't let the higher up make you do the wrong thing if you don't think it is right.

thanks...I don't lie about anything, and to be honest that's what is probably hurting my numbers lately.  In sales, you tell the buyer what he wants to hear about your product in order to make the purchase, because after the sale its someone else's problem.

I tell all my applicants, "I tell it how it is: good, bad, ugly and all kinds of F'd up".  I have been counseled about telling too much.  The objective of recruiting is to dazzle with facts about the good stuff, and redirect to the good stuff to offset the bad.  I would rather my troops know exactly where they are getting into.

My boss called me a liar and a thief today.  That is what sparked everything.  The people I put in are referring others to me, and instead of giving them to other recruiters that I know will feed them a line of sh*t to get them in, I work them...catch hell, and end up loosing both in the process.  I hate politics, especially from someone who could not sell snowcones in hell.  

 

[AZIROC]

A few years back when i went to talk to an Army recruiter about being a pilot.. well.. i didnt know it would have been a 2 1/2 year "event".

1st recruiter- was straight up and said he was leaving in 5 days and was already "checked out" and to just come back in a week and his replacemtnw ill work with me *at least he was straight up*

2nd recruiter- cool dude.. 1st time to being a recruiter. I told him i wanted to be a pilot. he took me to MEPS to take the tests and such... passed them all (actually only missed 1 1/2 points on the flight test on my 1st try

... the captain giving the test asked me if i ever flew before.. i said no, he asked how i knew this tuff.. i just told him nintendo and MS flight simulator... he face was more of "WTF" and semi pissed) few months go by while paperwork gets done. go to MEPS again 4 the physical, pass it.. and basically wait some months.

3rd recruiter- (didnt trust him at all) 2nd recrutier got orders somewhere and i got passed along to recruiter #3. he was real... lazy, for lack of better words. didnt seme like he knew wtf he was doing. went to Ft. Huachucha for my flight physical/medical. after 9 months of waiting.. found out "they" lost my medical packet. after getting Sen. McCann involved, "they" found it in less then 24 hours (filed in some cabinet where it shouldnt have been). sent flight packet to Ft. Rucker. after 11 months of waiting.. they lost this 1 too. did another congressional inquiery thats to mccann.. was found in 3 days.

recruiter #4 - very truthful. young guy and new to recruiting. i told him liek i told my past recruiters that i will tell them the truth as long as they do the same, but the sec i catch them in a lie.. im out of there. he came in after me waiting prob 4-5 months into the lost flight packet. after getting all that stuff found.. he gave my my PT test. passed it. and basically was good to go. Then 1 friday, he calls me up and says "yea, idk what is going on..but i think ur getting hosed.. u need to come down here ASAP" so i get down there and basically the Army said some new "rule" came out thursday evening saying i needed to pick 1 of 14 enlistment jobs 1st "incase" i didnt pass. imo, sounds liek i was going to not get my flight thing and they would have thrown me into infantry or tanks or some ****. he said he never heard of that.. neither did any other recruiter nor the sgt in charge. so we go to the main recruiting station downtown and i have a meeting with this woman Capt (not even a recruiting officer.. she was into communications) basically told me this was new and i wasnt going to be grandfathered in. i told her thats BS and how ive been trying to do this for 2 1/2 years and been given the run around. i guess this opened a can of worms and i have to give some statement in writting about my whole endever plus all my past recuiters got brought back for "interviews" after 3 months of waiting i just told the Army to go pound sand and that i was tired of waiting and figured that since i WANTED to join it would be easy as cake vs peopel who DONT want to be there and yet are made to join. so after i figured that with 2 congressional inquiries and soem "offical" meeting i was already screwed IF i ever made it in.. so i told her to go phuq off

 

[rubber2burn]

Damn Sharky your boss called you a theif and a liar now that is what I call piss poor leadership right there Bro infact if it would have been me I would have blew up and most likely would have been standing in front of the CO because there is only a few thing in life that I live by I don't not steal and and I don't lie I tell the truth ( have I lied yes but only it does not matter like jokeing with the boys and stuff like) Whn it comes to your bread and butter bro always tell the truth like you said at least you can sleep at night. Now I have one other thing to tell you though some of those kids that you do not want to put in the service due to law violations, drugs, or what not bro you have to use your best judgement on those because some of those kids are not bad I was one of them and the Navy help make me a better person. You know the way I dealt with them was I made them agree to a verbal contract and if they broke that contract well then I just told them never come to me again cause I would not help them. But the ones that stuck to it and did adherd to the agreement it showed dedication to me so I would help them get into the service. So take a look at some of those kids Sharky some times they are good kids just in a bad place and need to get out Bro. Just remeber if you don't think it is right and think it might hurt your integerity as a person Bro then don't do it what is the worst they can do to you boot you out of recruiting they are not going to kick you out of the Air Force so stick by your GUNS Bro and stay strong it will get better.

 

[warwgn]

I was at home after school one day and the phone rings and the guy said the Sgt Pridgett with the US Marines and have you ever thought of joining the Marines? I said sure where's your office I'll come down now and sign up

That was it, I went down and started the paperwork scheduled the tests a few weeks later (not soon enough for me) passed them all with flying colors. I was classed as an alpha which they needed at the time so he was all happy. I did some interviews and went to the meps for a physical, then he really had to work it then, some 250 yr old doc said I have a heart murmur. But I had been running cross country for the last 4 years and was very healthy, so they had to send me to a specialist and all kinds of crap. Anyway got all that sorted out bfter a few months, but since I slackked off in school so much I was behind and needed to do night school to get my credits so i could graduate on time to go to boot camp.

Well that didnt work out cause my dad got reassigned in his job and we were moving from Texas to New Mexico which had a diff credit system and I would not be able to go to boot camp as scheduled. So the recuiter said get a GED and go to collage and get 15 credit hours and your good to go. I wish I knew about the whole GED thing when I was a freshman I could have been out of school then

that was so easy it was a joke. So we moved and I started in an accredited tech school and got most of my credits( still lazy and missed too much school) and did not get the credits on time. Now my new recuiter was helping the process and I enrolled the next semester got the credits and was ready to go.

Went to the hotel, then sat around meps all the next day only to find out they would not ship me out since the DR there thought something in the paper work was bogus about my heart stuff. Now I am refered back to my old recuiter in Texas who has to go up the chain to sort it out. So now after almost 2 years as a poolee they have to get me a flight to Dallas so they can ship me out from there but cant fly me in from out of state, so I had to drive to Amarillo to catch a plane to Dallas to fly to San Diego. Finally I made it Boot camp in OCT of 91.

All that and I get run over 6 years later put on medical hold for another year and a half and finally discharged medicaly

But on the good side with all the time before I enlisted and the medical hold once I was out my 8 year obligation was done the day I was discharged

all on one enlistment!!

 

[Projekt]

Sounds like you ended up in a real cut-throat situation. I am not sure I could have kept my cool had I been insulted the way your superior insulted you. Hell, I'd probably ended up with an LOR at least or a UIF.
Be assured that your integrity and honor will be maintained following your present philosophy.
When I was talking to the Air Force recruiter prior to joining back in the early 90's, my experience wasn't too bad. However, I did sense that he was sugar coating things and redirecting many of my queries. He called bootcamp a six week vacation and (as a SSgt in San Jose, CA) showed me his big paycheck that I would likely not see for many years into the USAF. He talked about how he bought a boat recently and would take it out onto the water on base. He sure was a silver tongued devil as many have described recruiting. When asked specific questions about the training conditions, he would never talk facts, saying "I think" things are this way and "I think" things are that way now, instead of laying it out for me. I will say that when I started packing on a few pounds while in DEP he was quick to pull out the tape and tell me I was over so that I would drop weight and stay within guidelines. He was just protecting his time invested in me.
I got the itch to look into Combat control after looking at a pamphlet in his office near the time I was set to enlist. He would not answer my concerns about my eyesight and whether it would prevent me from going into that career field. I pressed him for weeks about it and he finally said I'd be fine knowing that I had no depth perception (a disqualifying condition for that field).
After all of that and eight years in the Air Force I have to say that it all worked out for the better and gave me a boost in life. I can't say if I'd be better off had I not joined but can say that I am doing well. I am not sure how much time you have in or whether you plan to put in twenty years. But, if you are thinking you want to seperate I would encourage you to do so and guarantee that with the skills you have now, you'll be very successful in the civilian sector. Hooking up with a DOD contractor will get you paid well

 

[razorshark]

It will be 13 years in Dec. I am sched to re-enlist on 1 Aug. I am not going to let this person hurt my family's stability. I came into recruiting to help people. My recruiter was a complete scumbag, took me only two weeks to get into the AF after I met him, had a 97QT so they rushed me through and I wasn't ready at all. If I wasn't married and no kids, I probably would have left by now...but I'm too close to retirement. At 20, I will punch and probably open my own tattoo shop or multimedia support office or even a bar...dunno. Lots of possibilities, but the civilian world is too risky right now, too many unknowns coming up.

Thank for the input guys...one more question: If your boss was doing things that were wrong and its the same things he is accusing you of doing, what would you do? The chances of something being done in my favor are slim to none. I'm not in a position of authority where anyone takes me serious anymore. "The squeeky door gets slammed shut the hardest" approach seems to rule.

 

[Projekt]

Just stay under the radar is all I can say. If your boss' questionable activities are not infringing on your lifestyle or family's safety then I would just bide my time and stay quiet particularly if you plan on retiring. These days, whistleblower protection and non-reprisal are both myths in the military as far as I can tell. If you do decide to pursue a complaint just be sure to document, document, document and be able to prove the alleged actions. I learned the hard way and ended up under the microscope when I went to the IG.
I doubt that the recruiting command really wants to uncover evidence of fraudulent enlistment practices or other wrongdoing during such a lean time. Thus, they may just sweep things under the rug (happens more often than people think) and start looking at you harder.

 

[razorshark]

(Projekt @ Jul. 25 2007,07:11) Just stay under the radar is all I can say. If your boss' questionable activities are not infringing on your lifestyle or family's safety then I would just bide my time and stay quiet particularly if you plan on retiring. These days, whistleblower protection and non-reprisal are both myths in the military as far as I can tell. If you do decide to pursue a complaint just be sure to document, document, document and be able to prove the alleged actions. I learned the hard way and ended up under the microscope when I went to the IG.
I doubt that the recruiting command really wants to uncover evidence of fraudulent enlistment practices or other wrongdoing during such a lean time. Thus, they may just sweep things under the rug (happens more often than people think) and start looking at you harder.

I agree.  And that is the turmoil of this current situation.  We are expected to produce (at any means mecessary) regardless of circumstances both internal or external...get them in, get them out.

I guess its time to re-motivate and move on, for the sake of my family rather than my career.  I will pickup Master Sergeant next year, absolutely no doubt about that.  Then cross-train into something else, don't really care what it is as long as its away from here.

Someone told me yesterday, "Well, its better then being shot at across the pond."  Maybe, but at least I would believe in what I was doing...maybe.  Sorry for the rant guys, I'm in a one-man office, away from a base with very little support other than my wife, who hates what I do anyway.  Good to hear others' opinions...

 

[Don Hardcastle]

Razor,
I am a career recruiter for the Navy. I have been doing this for 9 years in Sept. Recruiting, at least in the Navy, runs in a cycle that is about 14-18 months long. Good times then rough times and back. Not sure what causes this, but it has held true. Hang in there, you'll be fine. Don't ever compromise yourself, your integrity, your honor or put your family at risk for one on these little morons, and especially don't do it just to chase that damn number.

Don

 

[rubber2burn]

(USN05LE @ Jul. 25 2007,07:24) Razor,
 I am a career recruiter for the Navy.  I have been doing this for 9 years in Sept.  Recruiting, at least in the Navy, runs in a cycle that is about 14-18 months long.  Good times then rough times and back.  Not sure what causes this, but it has held true.  Hang in there, you'll be fine.  Don't ever compromise yourself, your integrity, your honor or put your family at risk for one on these little morons, and especially don't do it just to chase that damn number.

Don

When I was recruiting this is what I saw as well it is a cycle Bro some times you are flooded some time it was dry. But Don I would not call the most applicants morons because most of them are really smart Bro and you know this.

 

[Don Hardcastle]

(rubber2burn @ Jul. 25 2007,09:46)

(USN05LE @ Jul. 25 2007,07:24) Razor,
 I am a career recruiter for the Navy.  I have been doing this for 9 years in Sept.  Recruiting, at least in the Navy, runs in a cycle that is about 14-18 months long.  Good times then rough times and back.  Not sure what causes this, but it has held true.  Hang in there, you'll be fine.  Don't ever compromise yourself, your integrity, your honor or put your family at risk for one on these little morons, and especially don't do it just to chase that damn number.

Don

When I was recruiting this is what I saw as well it is a cycle Bro some times you are flooded some time it was dry.  But Don I would not call the most applicants morons because most of them are really smart Bro and you know this.

R2B,
  The morons I was referring to are the ones that want you to do something stupid to help them get in.  You are absolutely correct.  Most of the folks that we talk to that really want to join the military are upstanding bright kids who want a better life and want start out thier adult lives with some direction and stability.

Don

 

[Gunnybusa]

The Air Force and Marine Corps recruiters are three months ahead of quota here in my area of SoCal. Alot of recruiting has to do with location. Another part of it is how IN it is. I was a HAT not a recruiter but I know the ones that are successful are the ones who cater to the high schoolers since of whats IN (you’ve got to be cool and hip). My buddy was recruiting in a big biker town so he went out and got a Big Dog chopper and rode it to all the high schools in his " Chucks ", he keep up on all the high school happenings and sports plus what was cool to the local kids. He kept his integrity the entire time and had a very successful tour.

 

[Rainer3012]

Well I just finished a 6 year tour in the Navy, For my personal experience my recruiters were very open and honest, as long as you did your share and did the research first. I walked in with a good idea of what I wanted to do, scored a 97 on the ASVAB and was offered aviation structural mechanic, not what I had in mind but i did my research and my recruiter helped me get the job I did want as an electronics technician.

I have heard horror stories from others in the navy and other branches about lying, and deceptive recruiters. However I can only vouch for my own experience.

 

[rubber2burn]

(USN05LE @ Jul. 25 2007,07:49)

(rubber2burn @ Jul. 25 2007,09:46)

(USN05LE @ Jul. 25 2007,07:24) Razor,
 I am a career recruiter for the Navy.  I have been doing this for 9 years in Sept.  Recruiting, at least in the Navy, runs in a cycle that is about 14-18 months long.  Good times then rough times and back.  Not sure what causes this, but it has held true.  Hang in there, you'll be fine.  Don't ever compromise yourself, your integrity, your honor or put your family at risk for one on these little morons, and especially don't do it just to chase that damn number.

Don

When I was recruiting this is what I saw as well it is a cycle Bro some times you are flooded some time it was dry.  But Don I would not call the most applicants morons because most of them are really smart Bro and you know this.

Rock,
  The morons I was referring to are the ones that want you to do something stupid to help them get in.  You are absolutely correct.  Most of the folks that we talk to that really want to join the military are upstanding bright kids who want a better life and want start out thier adult lives with some direction and stability.

Don