Guns on College Campuses

[Don Hardcastle]

The Governor of Arkansas is getting ready to sign into law a bill that will allow college educators to carry weapons on campus legally.... Thoughts and discuss please.

 

[Salty]

Honestly, I feel that anyone legally licensed to carry a concealed firearm should be able to do so anywhere they choose, as long as it's done in a responsible manner and is being done so with in federal guidelines.

Research shows Gun free zones are just targets for criminals as they know its easy pickings...

 

[VIPER]

my thoughts are simple....carry arm yourselves the time is coming were you should and will need to...

 

[Twobrothersbusa]

I never have and never will understand gun free zones. They've proven to not work at every mass shooting that has ever occurred.

 

[RedBusarider]

The Governor of Arkansas is getting ready to sign into law a bill that will allow college educators to carry weapons on campus legally.... Thoughts and discuss please.

So college educators are worth more then the students?

 

[Dscahill]

Weapon free zones only apply to those who obey the law. I don't want to be the one caught with my pants down simply because I felt following a rule was more important than protecting my life, or someone else's.

If you have a permit, you should carry regardless of where.

-D

 

[Don Hardcastle]

So college educators are worth more then the students?

Not at all.... The law will allow educators to protect themselves AND students in the event it becomes necessary. I can't believe that you thought that is what my post meant.

 

[Dscahill]

Having the older, more mature/experienced hand involved with the weapons isn't such a bad idea..

-D

 

[RedBusarider]

Not at all.... The law will allow educators to protect themselves AND students in the event it becomes necessary. I can't believe that you thought that is what my post meant.

From the way it was worded it sounded like the Students CAN"T carry - only the Educators.
So when they are changing classes or the Educator is not around they are going to be targets.
If the Educators can carry then it should apply to all persons (that have concealed permits) on the property.

Ever heard the saying - Why carry a concealed weapon - because a cop is to heavy to carry.
Meaning that the Educators can't be everywhere all the time. So if the students (that have concealed permits)
can't carry then they must be worth less then the educators. IMO.

Also in the OP it didn't state whether or not the Educators had to have carry permits only that they will be "allowed" to carry.
If they are not trained then what's the point?

 

[Dscahill]

From the way it was worded it sounded like the Students CAN"T carry - only the Educators.
So when they are changing classes or the Educator is not around they are going to be targets.
If the Educators can carry then it should apply to all persons (that have concealed permits) on the property.

Ever heard the saying - Why carry a concealed weapon - because a cop is to heavy to carry.
Meaning that the Educators can't be everywhere all the time. So if the students (that have concealed permits)
can't carry then they must be worth less then the educators. IMO.

Also in the OP it didn't state whether or not the Educators had to have carry permits only that they will be "allowed" to carry.
If they are not trained then what's the point?

I agree, Tell you what, If I had been allowed to carry my AR-15 on campus, I can pretty much guarantee not a lot would happen. Personally, I think its one of the most intimidating weapon systems out there, and you'd have to be stupid to try and attack someone with one, especially with a hand gun.

There will be no doubt some will find flaws to this logic, but thats okay.

-D

 

[IG.]

I liked and agreed with most everyone's thoughts, and wanted to ask a rhetorical question:

"As mentally disturbed an individual can be, in most mass shootings a shooter knew there would be little or no resistance. Do you think even a mentally disturbed individual would still go out on a shooting spree if he knew that seconds after he opens fire he would encounter a barrage of bullets from other people?"

 

[GNBRETT]

Honestly, I feel that anyone legally licensed to carry a concealed firearm should be able to do so anywhere they choose, as long as it's done in a responsible manner and is being done so with in federal guidelines.

Research shows Gun free zones are just targets for criminals as they know its easy pickings...

well, the ANYONE wud mean a college kid who has a pistol permit can carry on campus. that wud be an incredibly stupid idea! drunk college kids at frat parties shooting beer bottles. snds like a great idea! drunk college kids are far from responsible and where wud a college kid with a permit secure his weapon? in his frat house where ppl come and go daily?

there is a reason guns are not allowed on college campuses. if the teachers want to carry so be it. their not going to frat parties and gettn shiit faced!

research shows that gun violence happens most often in poor high crime areas NOT gun free zones. they are not anymore of a target then any other area is. there were FAR more shootings in the inner city poor neighborhoods then ALL gun free zones put together. in fact, there were a 100X more suicide deaths with guns then there were deaths in gun free zones.

and due to the stress college brings many kids at college the last thing you want to do is introduce guns into the college atmosphere so a depressed kid can blow his brains out while intoxicated after failing his final exam. 21,000 ppl ate their gun last year from some sort of depression. some clinical depression, others self induced alcohol which is a depressant!

 

[Dscahill]

well, the ANYONE wud mean a college kid who has a pistol permit can carry on campus. that wud be an incredibly stupid idea! drunk college kids at frat parties shooting beer bottles. snds like a great idea! drunk college kids are far from responsible and where wud a college kid with a permit secure his weapon? in his frat house where ppl come and go daily?

there is a reason guns are not allowed on college campuses. if the teachers want to carry so be it. their not going to frat parties and gettn shiit faced!

research shows that gun violence happens most often in poor high crime areas NOT gun free zones. they are not anymore of a target then any other area is. there were FAR more shootings in the inner city poor neighborhoods then ALL gun free zones put together. in fact, there were a 100X more suicide deaths with guns then there were deaths in gun free zones.

and due to the stress college brings many kids at college the last thing you want to do is introduce guns into the college atmosphere so a depressed kid can blow his brains out while intoxicated after failing his final exam. 21,000 ppl ate their gun last year from some sort of depression. some clinical depression, others self induced alcohol which is a depressant!

Valid points. Frankly, this topic is controversial for sure, but I believe we should devote many more resources towards aiding the mentally deficient and those needing assistance in this regard.

-D

 

[BUBBA]

My dad was a college professor and a great man. Loved teaching and was a mechanical whizz, but there is no way I would ever give him a gun to carry to the classroom.
He was a klutz when it came to guns and would have never been able to shoot another person in a high stress situation, specially a student of his. Myself, on the other hand, would have no problem carrying.
There must be a better solution to this, i.e. more security officers trained and ready for encounters of this nature. I have no solid solutions but think there is a more proactive answer than the common reactive.
Just my 2!

 

[GMbusa]

Huh? All the gun owning people I know would not use their gun in anyway it could harm others in an irresponsible manner. Stop playing the coulda shoulda game. Reasons why guns are not allowed at school? The liberal way of fearing everything just like you do and not addressing the real issue at hand. That no matter the laws you make, a wacko or criminal will find a way to harm people. Welcome to life.

well, the ANYONE wud mean a college kid who has a pistol permit can carry on campus. that wud be an incredibly stupid idea! drunk college kids at frat parties shooting beer bottles. snds like a great idea! drunk college kids are far from responsible and where wud a college kid with a permit secure his weapon? in his frat house where ppl come and go daily?

there is a reason guns are not allowed on college campuses. if the teachers want to carry so be it. their not going to frat parties and gettn shiit faced!

research shows that gun violence happens most often in poor high crime areas NOT gun free zones. they are not anymore of a target then any other area is. there were FAR more shootings in the inner city poor neighborhoods then ALL gun free zones put together. in fact, there were a 100X more suicide deaths with guns then there were deaths in gun free zones.

and due to the stress college brings many kids at college the last thing you want to do is introduce guns into the college atmosphere so a depressed kid can blow his brains out while intoxicated after failing his final exam. 21,000 ppl ate their gun last year from some sort of depression. some clinical depression, others self induced alcohol which is a depressant!

 

[Salty]

well, the ANYONE wud mean a college kid who has a pistol permit can carry on campus. that wud be an incredibly stupid idea! drunk college kids at frat parties shooting beer bottles. snds like a great idea! drunk college kids are far from responsible and where wud a college kid with a permit secure his weapon? in his frat house where ppl come and go daily?

there is a reason guns are not allowed on college campuses. if the teachers want to carry so be it. their not going to frat parties and gettn shiit faced!

research shows that gun violence happens most often in poor high crime areas NOT gun free zones. they are not anymore of a target then any other area is. there were FAR more shootings in the inner city poor neighborhoods then ALL gun free zones put together. in fact, there were a 100X more suicide deaths with guns then there were deaths in gun free zones.

and due to the stress college brings many kids at college the last thing you want to do is introduce guns into the college atmosphere so a depressed kid can blow his brains out while intoxicated after failing his final exam. 21,000 ppl ate their gun last year from some sort of depression. some clinical depression, others self induced alcohol which is a depressant!

As I stated in my original post, I don't see anything wrong with anyone being allowed to carry concealed as long as they are following Federal regulations. Which includes the regulation that you are not allowed 1 drop of alcohol in your system while carrying a firearm or it is a federal offense and anyone in violation should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Your typical concealed carry permit holder is going to be more responsible then your atypical college drunken fratboy/girl.

If you research the mass attack shootings IE. School Shootings and School Massacres, Movie Theatre Massacre, Mall Shootings and other killing sprees....Not black on black crime in low income areas...Nearly every single one has taken place in a gun free zone...

You will always have crime in poor impoverished neighborhoods unfortunately it comes with the territory, the depressed and mentally ill will always find ways to terminate their lives should they so choose, neither of this can be resolved with out better education and better support systems in place...regardless of that though a certain percent of the population will always fall into a troubled category. With that being said I do not feel we should allow the troubled to be the reason the rest of us should lose the ability to defend ourselves should we so desire to legally carry concealed firearms.

 

[GNBRETT]

Huh? All the gun owning people I know would not use their gun in anyway it could harm others in an irresponsible manner. Stop playing the coulda shoulda game. Reasons why guns are not allowed at school? The liberal way of fearing everything just like you do and not addressing the real issue at hand. That no matter the laws you make, a wacko or criminal will find a way to harm people. Welcome to life.

lol.... all the gun owning ppl you know? how bout all the gun own ppl you DONT know? did u think of that? no, didn't think so.

in case ur not aware its far easier to get a driver license then a license to carry a gun in this country. so according to you, everyone with a drivers license is a responsible gun owner and shud b carrying their gun everywhere they go.

lmao.... this is the fundamental problem with guns in our country is ppl like you who no offense are just really ignorant wen it comes to gun ownership thinking every tom, **** and harry shud be carrying a gun. and because you know a few responsible gun owners that means college kids on campus shud also be carrying guns while going to class.... really?

ur right tho! drunk and high college kids shud definitely be carrying around guns while on campus. especially wen going to frat parties! great idea! thanx for clearing that up! wow!

 

[GNBRETT]

As I stated in my original post, I don't see anything wrong with anyone being allowed to carry concealed as long as they are following Federal regulations. Which includes the regulation that you are not allowed 1 drop of alcohol in your system while carrying a firearm or it is a federal offense and anyone in violation should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Your typical concealed carry permit holder is going to be more responsible then your atypical college drunken fratboy/girl.

If you research the mass attack shootings IE. School Shootings and School Massacres, Movie Theatre Massacre, Mall Shootings and other killing sprees....Not black on black crime in low income areas...Nearly every single one has taken place in a gun free zone...

You will always have crime in poor impoverished neighborhoods unfortunately it comes with the territory, the depressed and mentally ill will always find ways to terminate their lives should they so choose, neither of this can be resolved with out better education and better support systems in place...regardless of that though a certain percent of the population will always fall into a troubled category. With that being said I do not feel we should allow the troubled to be the reason the rest of us should lose the ability to defend ourselves should we so desire to legally carry concealed firearms.

were not discussing the general public and the right to carry. were discussing the right to carry on COLLEGE campuses.

so let me get this straight, so college kids can carry a firearm as long as they are not intoxicated. so were going to rely of college kids to exercise good judgement while on campus and just ASSume their not going to consume alcohol while their carrying a loaded gun. yea ok....

we have doctors, lawyers, school teachers, cops, firemen and numerous other professional ppl that consume alcohol daily and then get into a 4000 lb un-guided missile and smash into ppl and kill them while intoxicated and you think were going to rely on college kids to exercise better judgement then others? ur living in fantasyland if u really believe that!

 

[RedBusarider]

were not discussing the general public and the right to carry. were discussing the right to carry on COLLEGE campuses.

so let me get this straight, so college kids can carry a firearm as long as they are not intoxicated. so were going to rely of college kids to exercise good judgement while on campus and just ASSume their not going to consume alcohol while their carrying a loaded gun. yea ok....

we have doctors, lawyers, school teachers, cops, firemen and numerous other professional ppl that consume alcohol daily and then get into a 4000 lb un-guided missile and smash into ppl and kill them while intoxicated and you think were going to rely on college kids to exercise better judgement then others? ur living in fantasyland if u really believe that!

Well the first thing that I see is that you did not include college educators in your list. And that is what this subject is about, college educators not schoolteachers with young children in them. Another thing that needs to be brought up is I believe that in every state concealed carry permits are only issued to 21 and older. So it's not like all the students would be carrying guns even if they could. And as far as I know during class hours 99 percent of the time or more no alcohol will be consumed during classes. If their dorms are off campus then nothing is stopping them from carrying now, it's only on campus that this would be in effect.

Older adults that are taking classes whether it's day classes or night classes should they be excluded too, if a 45 or 50-year-old has a concealed weapons permit should they be banned because their a student?


I guess if you want to start quoting about alcohol abuse then you ought to compare it to how many people are shot at campuses versus how many people die in automobile accidents due to alcohol abuse and/or how many people are shot by drunk people.

But your point is well taken that we can't control everyone and there will be idiots that drink and then pull out their guns. Is that called you can't fix stupid?

Another thing that I've never figured out is in the Constitution doesn't it state that our right shall not be infringed to bear arms? So why are there firearm free zones? We should be able to carry anywhere that the police can carry whether that's in a hospital, courtroom, City Hall, churches, college campuses or anyplace else. But that would scare the hell out of you cops, right?

 

[GNBRETT]

Well the first thing that I see is that you did not include college educators in your list. And that is what this subject is about, college educators not schoolteachers with young children in them. Another thing that needs to be brought up is I believe that in every state concealed carry permits are only issued to 21 and older. So it's not like all the students would be carrying guns even if they could. And as far as I know during class hours 99 percent of the time or more no alcohol will be consumed during classes. If their dorms are off campus then nothing is stopping them from carrying now, it's only on campus that this would be in effect.

Older adults that are taking classes whether it's day classes or night classes should they be excluded too, if a 45 or 50-year-old has a concealed weapons permit should they be banned because their a student?


I guess if you want to start quoting about alcohol abuse then you ought to compare it to how many people are shot at campuses versus how many people die in automobile accidents due to alcohol abuse and/or how many people are shot by drunk people.

But your point is well taken that we can't control everyone and there will be idiots that drink and then pull out their guns. Is that called you can't fix stupid?

Another thing that I've never figured out is in the Constitution doesn't it state that our right shall not be infringed to bear arms? So why are there firearm free zones? We should be able to carry anywhere that the police can carry whether that's in a hospital, courtroom, City Hall, churches, college campuses or anyplace else. But that would scare the hell out of you cops, right?

yea it more designed for educators I agree but wen some1 says EVERYONE that includes plenty of seniors on college campuses around the country who are 21 yrs old. and gun owners make it very clear that EVERYONE shud be carrying a gun. and that cud not be FURTHER from the truth!

well, as far the constitution goes and being infringed upon I can tell you that I work at our local sports arena on overtime and they do not allow firearms into their building. (unformed cops can) but local police, state police or federal police off duty cannot. I've had to lock off duty troopers guns in my trunk of my police car till they are ready to leave. anything that is officially private has the right to refuse anyone on their property with a firearm. if don't agree they will simply ask u to leave and plenty have. they do sell alcohol in there so maybe thats their reason.

it wudnt scare the hell out of cops knowing that responsible ppl are near them with a gun. not at all. its the unresponsible ppl that we are concerned about and those cannot be identified by just the way they look.

again, its easier to get a driver license then a pistol permit. you have to go thru months of training and testing to get a DL. pass a felony and DV misd background check and some cheesy 1 hr course on the range and here's ur gun.

THAT is wat boils my blood wen we talk about the right to carry. make the requirements FAR more strict with background checks automatically run every 6 months thru an automated system to see if the permit carrier still has the right or responsibility to carry. psychological tests and FAR more time on the range qualifying! its fukn joke that we don't do that!

but were a nation of guns and heaven forbid we make the requirements more strict for ppl to carry around a loaded weapon. its a problem with no real solution. americans are 20x more likely to die from a gun then any other civilized nation on earth. but, then the argument can be made that because of that more ppl shud be carrying guns. its a catch 22....