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Thread: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

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    Question Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Just listening to the radio as I get my work done. The subject is the Smoker Penalty in Obama Care. Apparently, there is verbiage some place in the thousands of pages that penalizes smokers. According to chat a penalty on a 55 year old smoker under Obama Care will be penalized $4,250 above and beyond the non smoker's premium.

    Anyone else aware of this? You can't believe everything you hear on talking points but this is interesting.
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Buddy.... obamacare hasn't yet taken any traction. Just wait till it does

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    they shud tax the chit out of smokers! they cost us billions and billions of $$$$$ every year for a poison they CHOSE to put in their body. the same shud go for alcohol.

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    If you use tobacco you're already having to pay an additional fee with Blue Cross Blue Shield South Carolina. I think it's $1200 / yr. I just assumed all companies were doing this.

    There's far better reasons than this not to want socialized medicine under the federal government.
    Robert

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Believe me, I hate smoking, and I hate paying for what smokers are doing to themselves at the expense of my tax dollar.

    HOWEVER, that is a slippery slope. First it's the easy one (smoking), then it's if you drink or not, then what kind of food you eat...then it's riding motorcycles, then it's skydiving, then its....

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    the hell with it, just kill me off now.
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by skydivr View Post
    Believe me, I hate smoking, and I hate paying for what smokers are doing to themselves at the expense of my tax dollar.

    HOWEVER, that is a slippery slope. First it's the easy one (smoking), then it's if you drink or not, then what kind of food you eat...then it's riding motorcycles, then it's skydiving, then its....
    Besides has everyone forgot the billions the government took from the tobacco companies for this reason, and the sin tax that smokers pay everytime they belly up. I think there's one on alcohol too.
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
    the hell with it, just kill me off now.
    Forget it if you work and pay taxes ..... they need you Saw some information yesterday stating that 47% do not pay taxes in this country now. It was 17% when Reagan was in office
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    U should all run on ur treadmills while you listen to your government's instructions on what to do. Of course not during working hours
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Doesn't surprise me at all...look more, you may find if you own a sport bike, there's a penalty as well

    Slippery slope indeed...
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    Well since I have health insurance I don't have to worry about this right?
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    yeah, thats it
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    This has nothing to do with obamacare and more to do with capitalistic insurance companies, in my opinion. All Insurance companies do is look at income vs risk...if you do things that increase your risk level, your cost will increase such that the insurance company is making a good profit margin off of you. It's really not that complicated. If the company wants to make X dollars off of you during the term of your policy, and you do things which may increase the rate at which they are forced to pay out, your premium will be higher.

    Take for example the two people below:
    Person 1: Buys insurance X @ age 10, has no risk factors for health issues, does not smoke.
    Person 2: Buys insurance X @ age 10, has family risk factors for cancer, smokes heavily.

    Looking at these two people, which one is more likely to pay their premium without making a claim for the longest period of time? Obviously it's #1.

    Here's a math version:

    Person 1: buys policy @ age 10. lives to 85. Pays $100/month for insurance.
    That means that this person would pay the insurance company $90,000 over the term of his plan (This doesn't factor in premium increases as you get older, or claims...it's a simple example)
    Person 2 on the other hand started smoking at age 16 (that's not an unreasonable age, sadly), and after 30 years of his pack a day habit, has lung cancer. what this means is that the window under which the insurance company collects without claim is much shorter (36 years instead of 75), and consequently, the insurance company will charge more monthly to make up the difference in profit.

    In the above example, person 2 would have to pay $163/month to match the same profit level as Person 1 paying $100/month!

    Pure, simple capitalism.
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by VaBusa View Post
    Doesn't surprise me at all...look more, you may find if you own a sport bike, there's a penalty as well

    Slippery slope indeed...
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by black diamond busa View Post
    Well since I have health insurance I don't have to worry about this right?
    Wrong I think that Obamacare taxes you for having private insurance until you get on Obamacare
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    I think people who sit in offices should have to pay higher premiums versus ones who do physical activity for a living.......

    Who has been benefiting from the sin taxes that have been imposed? Are they passed back to the insurance companies or does big brother just slide them in his pocket?
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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Argilbertson View Post
    This has nothing to do with obamacare and more to do with capitalistic insurance companies, in my opinion. All Insurance companies do is look at income vs risk...if you do things that increase your risk level, your cost will increase such that the insurance company is making a good profit margin off of you. It's really not that complicated. If the company wants to make X dollars off of you during the term of your policy, and you do things which may increase the rate at which they are forced to pay out, your premium will be higher.

    Take for example the two people below:
    Person 1: Buys insurance X @ age 10, has no risk factors for health issues, does not smoke.
    Person 2: Buys insurance X @ age 10, has family risk factors for cancer, smokes heavily.

    Looking at these two people, which one is more likely to pay their premium without making a claim for the longest period of time? Obviously it's #1.

    Here's a math version:

    Person 1: buys policy @ age 10. lives to 85. Pays $100/month for insurance.
    That means that this person would pay the insurance company $90,000 over the term of his plan (This doesn't factor in premium increases as you get older, or claims...it's a simple example)
    Person 2 on the other hand started smoking at age 16 (that's not an unreasonable age, sadly), and after 30 years of his pack a day habit, has lung cancer. what this means is that the window under which the insurance company collects without claim is much shorter (36 years instead of 75), and consequently, the insurance company will charge more monthly to make up the difference in profit.

    In the above example, person 2 would have to pay $163/month to match the same profit level as Person 1 paying $100/month!

    Pure, simple capitalism.
    Are you talking life insurance or health insurance ? I've never worked anywhere, where people paid different premiums. I think your assertion is correct but everyone pays not just the folks with bad family histories that do bad things to themselves Well until five years ago or so when tobacco users had to pay extra.
    Robert

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    the above is actually true for both, they just tend to go about it in different ways. When you look at company sponsored health insurance, they use an aggregate model, such that the healthier people end up paying a little extra to make up for the unhealthy ones. For the most part, the aggregate model washes out on a large scale, but it doesn't really hold up well to close scrutiny of individual cases.

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Argilbertson View Post
    This has nothing to do with obamacare and more to do with capitalistic insurance companies, in my opinion. All Insurance companies do is look at income vs risk...if you do things that increase your risk level, your cost will increase such that the insurance company is making a good profit margin off of you. It's really not that complicated. If the company wants to make X dollars off of you during the term of your policy, and you do things which may increase the rate at which they are forced to pay out, your premium will be higher.

    Take for example the two people below:
    Person 1: Buys insurance X @ age 10, has no risk factors for health issues, does not smoke.
    Person 2: Buys insurance X @ age 10, has family risk factors for cancer, smokes heavily.

    Looking at these two people, which one is more likely to pay their premium without making a claim for the longest period of time? Obviously it's #1.

    Here's a math version:

    Person 1: buys policy @ age 10. lives to 85. Pays $100/month for insurance.
    That means that this person would pay the insurance company $90,000 over the term of his plan (This doesn't factor in premium increases as you get older, or claims...it's a simple example)
    Person 2 on the other hand started smoking at age 16 (that's not an unreasonable age, sadly), and after 30 years of his pack a day habit, has lung cancer. what this means is that the window under which the insurance company collects without claim is much shorter (36 years instead of 75), and consequently, the insurance company will charge more monthly to make up the difference in profit.

    In the above example, person 2 would have to pay $163/month to match the same profit level as Person 1 paying $100/month!

    Pure, simple capitalism.
    of course insurance companies are capitalistic companies. they cetainly arent non-profit companies.

    the small amount of money the healthy person pays while living longer is peanuts compared to the hospital and healthcare costs that result from a smoker that insurance companies have to pay out. cigarette smoking accounts for an estimated 443,000 deaths every year which is nearly 1 out of every 5 deaths.

    more deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from HIV, illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle crashes, suicides, and murders combined!!!!!! yes combined!

    smoking also causes an estimated 90% of all lung cancer deaths in men and nealy 80% of all lung cancer deaths in women.

    insurance companies pay out an estimated $10 BILLION a year treating smoking related cancer patients. its far more profitable to not have to pay out treating healthcare cost from smokers then to collect money from someone that lives longer that doesnt smoke.

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    Default Re: Smoker Penalty in Obama Care

    Quote Originally Posted by GNBRETT View Post
    of course insurance companies are capitalistic companies. they cetainly arent non-profit companies.

    the small amount of money the healthy person pays while living longer is peanuts compared to the hospital and healthcare costs that result from a smoker that insurance companies have to pay out. cigarette smoking accounts for an estimated 443,000 deaths every year which is nearly 1 out of every 5 deaths.

    more deaths are caused each year by tobacco use than by all deaths from HIV, illegal drug use, alcohol use, motor vehicle crashes, suicides, and murders combined!!!!!! yes combined!

    smoking also causes an estimated 90% of all lung cancer deaths in men and nealy 80% of all lung cancer deaths in women.

    insurance companies pay out an estimated $10 BILLION a year treating smoking related cancer patients. its far more profitable to not have to pay out treating healthcare cost from smokers then to collect money from someone that lives longer that doesnt smoke.

    And this is exactly why it can be so difficult to obtain insurance if you smoke, and more expensive. It's more risk for the insurance company, hence more expensive to offset.

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